That quote from Jon is not good. It shows what went wrong with how he was doing things and how the band truly became a solo project in all but name. WAN is such a shower of shite, truly a terrible album. If Jon was rushing it to stay relevant (that word has destroyed Bon Jovi), is there any wonder the final product is so crap.

Still, when Tico said no, Richie would have already been on board because at least 10 songs had already been written.

So was getting David Bryan, Tico Torres and Richie Sambora – back together for another album difficult?

It turns out it almost never happened – because Jon can’t help lying. “The goal is the big anthemic record that is relevant to today,” JBJ said of the latest recording.

“I feel pretty good about it. Making it happen wasn’t as easy as saying, ‘We are going to work’. That’s because I am a liar.

“I started to write in September 2011, right after we got off the road. I couldn’t help myself. I started to do demos and I called Tico and asked him to come in and play.

“There was silence on the other end then a resounding no. I said, ‘What do you mean, no?’

“He said, ‘You told me we weren’t going to work the rest of the year. The answer is no’.

“I laughed and said we would mess around with anybody playing drums. It was well into 2012 before he was willing to come and play drums with me.

“He said I was crazy and that he needed a life.

“While Richie was doing his solo record and Dave was developing a new play following his success on Broadway, I worked on this album.

“Then they all came round and started playing on what became the songs... and here we are.”

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entert...s-band-1740311

No. There is more... but it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack...

Jon talked a great deal about a solo album being a Smaller Production and More Lyric Driven... That's what Tico was asked to play on... That interview from Jon above was him reiterating an interview from Tico so yes, he's going to say that those songs were from the first batch of WAN because that's what he was promoting but Tico gave an interview and told that same story. Jon had some demos that he wanted Tico to play on which was wayyy before WAN ever left the ground...

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The timeline for that doesn't fit though!

He says above about WAN that "I started the writing process in 2011 in September, by June in '12 It was completed. The whole record written, recorded and finished."

He called Tico Oct/Nov 2011 so by then it seems that he had already decided against the solo album that he was talking about a year earlier...

Anyway, this is really a lot of discussion about one throw away comment....

Thank You!!! So there you go... Richie and Dave weren't in the picture at all... Dave was doing Broadway and Richie was doing Aftermath...He needed Tico to play on some early demos... I think it was the Stand Up Guy songs and The Fighter. That fits the timeline... It sounds like Shanks wasn't even involved yet at this point or else he would have played drums...So Yes, I'm leaning more towards solo at this stage. Everything starts off as Jon solo and then morphs into the band...

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Huh? All those quotes are clearly still talking about WAN not a solo record....

The only quotes about a solo record were over a year before, which ended up just being the 2 soundtrack songs.

You said earlier that it's common for jon to start the band records on his own, and now because Dave and Richie weren't there, it was a solo record? Holy contradictions Batman!

I'm guessing he was including the week long detox stint he did in June 2007.

Jon needed to get out 2 songs for the Stand Up Guy soundtrack. He obviously needed a drummer and it was during that same period... A + B = C Robin

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Calm down Robin and Batman!

JBJ: "While I was in the cycle in 2011 writing for 'the band' once you knock the rust off which is typical, you start to develope a voice and then if you're really on a roll you start to getting outside of that wheelhouse and you're writing for other people and then in this case for other projects so I reminded myself that I had written some things for a film before, I called my old agent on the film business and I asked if there's anything and he said there was this one particular film called Stand Up Guys, I said well send me the script, that was on a Monday, on a Tuesday I received the scrip, by Wednesday I had written Old Habits Die Hard, sent it back to them and by Thursday they were calling me saying Wow; the producer had suggested that I could write a second song and I wrote Not Running Anymore. The original demos were something to my iPhone, then in my studio with a completely different band."

@Yovana: Awesome job mediating. :)

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ra...ne-true-379504

Production on the film started in April, 2012. "A month-and-a-half" prior would be sometime in February, 2012.

2 + 2 = 4, Batman. Over to you... :p

so...no Tico then. I guess A + B does not = C. Who knew? :rolleyes:

We can play this timeline game all day long but it's beyond the point anyway. However just to prove You and Thinny wrong, here is my proof so... Ready? Pay attention!!!

- We know Jon wanted to do solo album in 2010.
- He had material that he solely worked on in 2011.
- He called in Tico to do demos in November 2011.
- He left Richie and Dave alone to finish their solo projects until mid 2012.
- Jon did say that he wanted to do a smaller production stripped back acoustic type solo album and it just so happens that the first songs we heard just happen to be that.
- The Fighter and at least one of the 2 Stand Up Guy tracks fit that mold beyond anything that came out on WAN.
- Jon said he got the script before it was cast and as of February 1st 2012, the cast was announced - See Link Below
- Feb 1st - 3 Months = November!!!! BANG!!! GOODNIGHT!!!
- Dave was working equally hard on his solo stuff and had NO issue.

Saying Richie was overworked was a stretch to begin with but when you break it down and combine it with Jon and Dave's current interviews, it's now beyond ridiculous.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...en-alan-286459

RD You're really stretching here...it's all just speculation on your part. Jon actually said he recorded those soundtrack songs on his iPhone and then with a completely different band! ie. No Tico.

Honestly, I think you'd try and convince us that blue is black. All this just because I said that i thought I rememebered Tico being called back to work for WAN demos (which judging by Jon's quote was the case), and you thought it was to help Jon with his solo album (there's been no quote anywhere confirming that Jon asked Tico to help with his solo stuff, in fact the only quotes we have confirm the exact oppostive, that it wasn't Tico on the solo tracks he did record...)

I know that Jon said he wanted to do a solo record, that quote you posted proved that, but he'd clearly changed his mind a year later when he asked Tico to come back to work.

The point you're arguing now isn't even what we were discussing!

As far as Richie being overworked, Jon said they were going to take time off after the tour, we know this for a fact! He also admited that he "lied" and started work straight away on new material. Tico was obviously not happy about this, he "needed a life", this we know from the above quote! Why is that so hard to believe that Richie was unhappy with Jon's change of heart too?

I'm done with this. You will always clearly only ever believe your own fantasies, no matter what proof you are offered.
Today was fun. A complete was of time, but fun! :mrgreen:

Personally, I really wish Jon had gone forward with the solo record instead of WAN, I think we would have got some of his most insightful material for a long time...

I agree it's pointless but it is fun to unravel these things... Final Thoughts.

Old Habits was written three months prior to Not Running...

Jon wrote Old Habits when he got the script and then he wrote Not Running when he was on set and the producer said he could use another song.

I guess the final question is, did Tico play on Old Habits? And what month did Tico rejoin the band? It's just more for curiosity and knowledge at this point.

Bottom line, MY theory is 100% right: Rdkopper's actually very similar to JBJ, HE IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!! hihihih -_-

I have always thought that Tico does not play on the Because We Can studio track.
Its just my opinion.
Im a drummer because of Tico.
I know his way of playing perfectly and since the first listening I hear something "different"
Then,when I saw him playing it live,I confirmed that.
Again,its my opinion.

I'm actually not sure either Tico, David or Richie played on that track. It's so random that it could've been Jon, John and a drum machine/studio musician.

I also think that on This Is Love, This Is Life it's a drum computer.

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At 21:40 Jon says when he started writing a month after the tour, he was working with Shanks.


The first week of Feb in 2012, Jon was featured on CBS Person to Person. We can guess it was filmed some time in Jan 2012. In the clip, Jon is shown in the studio singing along to a track. That track is WAN - a song he and Shanks wrote. A band song, not a solo song.

https://facebook.com/story.php?story...photo.php&_rdr

Tico was going through marital issues. His divorce wasn't finalized until Aug 2012, so who knows when he was ready to go back to work.

The recording (including the drums) of BWC is well documented here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/...what-about-now

In my opinion, this screenshot of the mixing session (while being an interesting article to read) shows everything that's wrong with the current Bon Jovi album production these days.

I hear Richie loud and clear on the solo. The rhythm stuff is negligible so I don't know. It's documented he was there for the recording of the song and is on the final tracks, I don't think the engineer is high enough on the pay roll and say Richie and Tico were on the track if they weren't.

Agreed about the GH songs. This is Love and No Apologies's drums both sound robotic as hell.

Tico still could have just been recreating the programmed drums to give them a bigger sound. I doubt the band worked out the arrangement and the groove together; so he might have only gotten the chance to do so when playing live; explaining the difference.

Right, getting this topic back on track...I was just listening to a bootleg from the 2014 shows (Berlin 2014) - unfortunately this was one of the many bad shows from 2014. But during "Learning How To Fly With A Broken Wing" after the lyric "Guess I got fooled by a famous face" Richie adds "guess which one...?". I can only take this as a dig a Jon, unless anyone else has any other theories about this song? Is there anywhere that Richie has talked about what this song is about? I always presumed that it was about his time recovering in rehab...

If it is about the band that kinda changes a lot, and seems to me that he was writing about him leaving the band before it actually happened!?

"Learnin' How To Fly With A Broken Wing"

Hey! how did I wake up in this place
A missing person lost without a trace
Guess I got fooled by a famous face

I, I was locked up deep inside
It was so dark I couldn't see the sky
My truth was frightened just to see the light

[Chorus:]
And I'm runnin' like a dog with a busted leash
Burnin' like the tires when the lights turn green
Hey, I'm walkin' wounded but I still believe
Learnin' how to fly with a broken wing

I, I thought I could have it all
A broken parachute would break my fall
I tempted fate and then I hit the wall

I left scattered ashes in my wake
And there was nothing left that I could save
So I just dug my past in early grave

I'm tearing down what's left of my reflection,
A private anarchy

[Chorus]

I took the wheel
I'm changing my direction
Breaking my tailspin
Kicked down the back door
Just left the busted hinges
What I've been living in

[Solo]

[Chorus 2x]

Learnin' how to fly with a broken wing

[Solo till end]

I always assumed Heather. From what I recall Richie found out about the divorce on live TV. One could argue the lyrics of You can only get so high have the same double meanings, whether about rehab or wanting out of the band. Either way I'm pretty sure he was referencing Heather in that one.

Ahh ok, thanks for that! That actually makes more sense I think! I didn't think of Heather....

IMO, the "famous face" could be Jon and Heather, because he said: "Guess which one". If it was about one or the other, he might have said "Guess who". He's said a lot of his songs are about several things at the same time.

Also the rest of the lyrics sound general in some places but, to me, the second verse sounds like he's referring to the band, given what he's said about feeling constrained to create music and lyrics that fit in with Bon Jovi and that Jon could give voice to. And the bridge sounds like he's taking back control of his own destiny, to change some of the things he may have faced down in rehab/therapy. All of which leads nicely into Taking a Chance on the Wind, and the risk of going it on his own.

I can also see a connection between "kicked down the back door, just left the busted hinges" with "the door is off the hinges" in THINFS. They are both very visual and I don't think "broken hinges" is one of the phrases that either Jon or Richie used in the past.

It is show business. Artists say all kinds of things.

I never understood why so many people here think, that if it was said in an interview it must be true.

It is not. Show business is about stories, and stories change.

I don't think there even is a single true story about Richie leaving, there are many sides to it sure. But not a single truth you are seeking.

Second and I repeat. Artists say all kinds of things.

I get the need to know, but you would all be happier if you just accepted that you never will. Even if Jon and Richie come out hand in hand one of these days to tell the real story, that is all it will be.

A story.

And here you are nitpicking and guessing who is "famous face" as if an artist in an interview were creating multilayered literature AND speaking The Truth at the same time.

"OFF TOPIC": bonjovi90 and Captain_jovi should understand this
sure, pun intended as always.

-_-

Can't believe this thread is still going to be honest, I don't comment very often I just observe but your never going to get the truth so why not just move on?

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Richie: "Piss off!"

Which is exactly what i have been saying the whole time...

I just asked about the "famous face", as I was literally listening to the bootleg today, and was curious what other people's opinion on this was...

Apologies for have a bringing up a discussion on a discussion forum... :rolleyes:

Because as fans it's fun to discuss these types of things with other fans! Again, that's what a forum like this is for. If you don't get that I don't know why you come here...

And if we didn't have discusssions like this, this place would be deader than dead!

Thanks Jackie, that's really interesting! Yes, it does seem that he often writes about several things in one song, or at least writes in a way that can be interpeted by the listener in a few different ways....I did feel that some of the lyrics lean more to the band situation, and after Caps explaination I can certainly see how some would refer to Heather...

???

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lol


I think the "famous face" is Jon Bon Jovi.

and again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP29...outu.be&t=3752

Yeah there's no doubt at all what Take Me is about...

I take *everything* that's said in public with a grain of salt. I agree that just because an artist says something doesn't make it true; but that doesn't mean it has to be a lie, either. I try to practice healthy skepticism and weigh what is said against other things I know (or they've said) to draw conclusions; and then keep in mind that a "conclusion" is the best I can get without being in their skin or, at the very least, being in their immediate circle.

As much as I'd like to know what really happened, I've never expected that we'd be told; or that we'd be able to "figure out" anything by discussing it. But it's obviously on people's minds; and some still find it interesting to discuss. At least, now, there's a place to do that where those who aren't interested can skip over the whole thing without fear of missing any "news".

I disagree about an artist's ability to create multilayered literature, and speak The Truth at the same time. I believe that's entirely possible through their art and in interviews; but it's a matter of choice.

From what I remember, this seems to be overkill.

Rehab 2011 seemed fairly successful as rehabs go. He finished the TC/GH tour strong and immediately began working on AOTL.

At the 2012 i-Heart show, the general consensus was that Jon seemed sick or like he was phoning it in; but Richie was on fire. Same with the first leg of the BWC tour.

Without checking, I have vague memories of some erratic performances in late 2014; but the first I clearly remember where people began seeing a difference was the Oct 2016 shows in Oz and opening for Bad Co. It was even later with the “mad handling of Ori” and slurred speech you refer to.

Unless you can be more specific than “half of Lost Highway promos” that Jon had to do alone because Richie in rehab, I don’t buy it. That sounds like your “power-phrasing” to me.

I remember the Unplugged and the Puerto Rico concert right after that.

The only American Idol show I found that he wasn’t on was the show where Jon and David were mentoring the contestants, and he was there for the band performance the next night, iirc. Is that the one you’re talking about?

What else did he miss?

His decline begin in 2014 when he did go on tour with Orianthi.
In this video () he seemed perfectly fine to me and a few weeks later he turned up in Australia and was a mess.
It had to do something with her I think.
In my opinion Richie has still a great voice (remember last year when he performed One Night of Peace) and when he gets his act together I am sure he can get back to his 2012 level.

There was a major change between Musician Institute + ASCAP in January and Australia in February, let alone Europe in summer. Still fantastic voice, but he was’nt the same person.