My thoughts on the band and my journey with them
 

I’ve been spending a lot of time recently thinking back on the journey I’ve taken with the band and where I am at now with them. Yesterday I decided to put it down in words and just wanted to share it with you all.

https://jamiesmusicblog1.wordpress.c...-ok-with-that/

Great read, mate.

I think it sums up a lot of people's thoughts over the last 10+ years.

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Fantastic read that was mate, really well written and i think what you have said most of us probably agree with every word . I hate the word " die hard " i used to be but not as much now. I get it though , just not when fans on X/twitter say it all the time ..... an unhealthy obsession !

Great blog :)

Release that podcast mate, lets hear the truth !

It'll come.

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i think a lot of people think a diehard is someone like "that guy" who cannot go a day without mentioning Bon Jovi and always positively to the point where it seems so manufactured.

I love the band but I dont need to like or agree with everything they do.
You still can love the band despite not liking a few songs or even albums.

Theres no rule that says youre not a fan if you dont like everything....unless youre in that type of club on Twitter




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It’s abnormal/unhealthy and very strange to like everything that a band or anybody else does. The people who are unable to constructively criticise something need to get out of the house more!😬
I think this blog sums up how many long term fans feel about the band.
Anyone who thinks the last 10 years has been the pinnacle you have to question if they are fans at all. 🤔

Diehard is almost meaningless as well, because it more a metric of time investment than how much someone likes something.

Although, I would say there may be fans who have come to Bon Jovi in the last 15 years based on the modern music. I find that a stretch to imagine, but those types of fans must exist and see the older music as worse.

And criticism is a part of liking something. I like only four albums from Bon Jovi, but I am not sure that makes me less of a fan than someone else just because they collect memorabilia or like everything ever released.

which four albums?

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Slippery, New Jersey, Keep the Faith, and These Days. Although, I did spend some years lying to myself about the quality of the rest of the catalog, trying to be the "good fan".

At the risk of rubbing people the wrong way, it's kind of funny to point out how unhealthy die hards are for loving everything in a place filled with people who haven't been happy with the band's output in the last (insert number here) years and can't let it go. Healthy is a two way street. Finding a balance is tough for sure.

from the age of about 11-30 ish i was obsessed with the band, used to buy everything, have clippings from magazines in folders, posters on my wall.... every tv appearance from about 86 to about 2002 I recorded and have at least 3 full vhs videos of tv stuff at my mums......ruined relationships big time. lived breathed slept bon jovi...... then i grew up lol

what have you been listening to for the last 30 years?

Before I would say it's similar for me, but now I think differently. All those albums are very much flawed. My personal favourite (KTF) is basically trash in about half of its' length. TD that has mythological status in fanbase is very hit and miss. SWW as the best selling of this band and one of the best selling albums of all time in pop culture is combination of stadium hit singles and subpar hair metal fillers.

What I think makes a difference between golden years (1986-1995) and following output is mostly the perspective that Jovi was, first, THE pop/rock band of the times, and then, the international live iconic band with chip on the shoulder. Or even more bluntly, in the 80's, Jovi in the US was something like Bieber or Taylor Swift today. Similar to international scene in the 90's, regardless of grunge movement.

But later, Jovi was just another stadium band, with no real relevance on the radio and in charts, with few exceptions. I was introduced to band in 2005, but still I romanticized the legacy years, not only as legacy of the band, but also of rock music. But in this process, I did find myself overvaluating those early albums for wrong reasons.

For example, I do rate TD rather significantly better than 2020, but not primarily due to quality of songwriting or even producing (Shanks' best work IMO is 2020), but effort and possibilities of Jon's voice mostly. With 90's voice, Blood in the Water is perhaps better than anything on TD.

Just my two cents, I don't think anybody is wrong, just trying to rationalize all our perspectives. Still, even though HAND introduced me to the band, I don't see it as great album, but mostly cause fanbase don't see it. Quite frankly, there's no "perfect" Jovi album, just its meaning with context and live tour that then transcends the time and objective quality.

I am not sure what you mean. I have been listening to a lot of music over the last 30 years, from other bands and singers, as well as Bon Jovi. What was the point you were making?

let it go in what sense? no longer voice ones opinion that they don't like it, only positive comments allowed. I see nothing unhealthy about venting about Bon Jovi and their huge decline on a Bon Jovi message board.

I was just wondering what are some of the bands you have been listening to in lieu of Bon Jovi?

Let it go in that....accepting "this song/album/era isn't for me" instead of hammering it home again and again and again how much you dislike it. Sometimes the contant negativity feels like it stilts conversation.

Like, I don't care for 7800 Farenheit. The guitar tone, the production style...just doesn't do it for me. But I don't have the energy to remind everyone over and over how much I don't like it. But I love discussion and I love breaking down why you do or dont like something, when it gets to that point it's great.

There's absolutely a subsection of people who aren't going to like the new album, hated the last five or six and will make sure everyone knows it.

Ah ok. I mean I still listen to Bon Jovi too. I like 3 or 4 songs on each album aside from the classic 4.

Other bands. I am mostly into metal, so all the top bands in that genre like Maiden, Metallica, Slipknot, blah blah blah. Smaller bands like Edguy, Battle Beast, and Power Quest because I have a soft spot for power metal. I am not strictly a metalhead though.

Then a bunch of singers/bands that are not metal but I like maybe an album here, a few songs there.

I have no issues with the production or guitar tone on 7800.

Based on the last two albums, I think the new album will be awful, but I do genuinely hope I'm wrong, and will gladly make note of any songs I do like if there are any.

Metallica are still putting out really good albums imo. I never could get into Slipknot. With Bon Jovi's decline, Tobias Sammet became my salvation musically speaking. I love Battle Beast and Beast In Black as well, so i'm glad Anton got kicked out of his own band, whatever happened there.

Are you familiar with Soilwork or The Night Flight Orchestra?

So you think that 2020 and This House are worse albums then, let's say, WAN and Crush? If you can disregard their context and live tours, what band meant to you in 2000, etc., you think that material is worse than Crush as album material? Much worse? I just can't see it that way. Crush must have been adorable time to be a fan. It was resurgence of the band back in mainstream, perhaps only 80's band to have a global hit again, but that album cannot possibly be better material in any objective sense then last two attempts.

So Tobi is an Animal is referring to Tobi Sammet? Well, depending the day I would rank Avantasia/Edguy as my favourite band, and certainly always in the top 5. I don't like the separate the two bands because they are great for different reasons. The best show I ever went to was Avantasia in Buenos Aires on the Ghostlights tour. Regarding Soilwork or The Night Flight Orchestra, not heard about them. I will check it out.

Battle Beast, one of the craziest band splits ever considering Anton was the band. I preferred them when he was still there, but at least we got another band from it.

I won't derail the thread, though.

What About Now is mostly awful but I do like 4 songs on there and don't mind a few others. Crush does seem to get worse every time I hear it, but again there are 5 songs I do like and a few others I don't mind. This House Is Not For Sale I don't like a single song on it, there is one song I don't mind. 2020 is a little better and some songs had potential but weak vocals and annoying ooooo's and weak ass nanannana's prevented me from liking certain songs. I don't mind half of 2020 and dislike the other half, so not a good album for me. Those last two albums just have some of the worst Bon Jovi songs I've ever heard.

Understandable, I cannot argue against that. I do think much of Crush material is dreadful and worst of band's catalogue, but then some songs are staples still. I do think that Crush album still breathes, similar to Bounce.

Since HAND, albums are compressed and participating in "loudness war", with exception of 2020. I wish for HAND with similar production of Crush. For example, song like Two Story Town is produced on superb level, you can hear every instrument, every hook, every intention with it. No matter what you think about the song.

And your last point is exactly what drives my opinion. 2020 would be much better with Jon in form (and singles out of it, dreadful stuff). House album though seems like solid material without great song (perhaps wasted on BB album?), but with production that seems sterile (though not devastating as on WAN).

All in all, pity. But then again, even the worst song in best context means good stuff. Imagine 2001 in Europe tour, everybody listening to new Jovi single, trains of non-previous fans going on tour to see the band, exciting stuff, no matter the quality of the album Crush.

Then if you fast forward to 2020, it's covid, its Jon's lost voice, it's no tour or really bad tour, it's all of us older, so context does matter. Let's hope new material on Forever is solid and we are somehow more forgiving towards the band, especially if there is a tour. Probably one of the last, if not the one.

i just hope for 3 or 4 songs on every new album that I love. I dont expect 10 or 12 bangers anymore but then again BB really suprised me. Hopefully Forever does the same but theres only 10 tracks and i already dont like one of them.


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Is it only 10? Not 12?

Early on, I wasn't sure if that user could actually *be* Tobi Sammet (who is a huge Bon Jovi fan), but over time, the shitty taste in music (no offense) convinced me that even post Rocket Ride Tobi displayed far too much taste to have him confused with somebody who would rank BJ songs the way he did :D

Ah Rocket Ride, I love that album even if many don't. How unapologetic it is in mostly ditching power metal for an 80s rock homage is endearing to me. Especially because Edguy was arguably on the cusp of becoming one of the truly elite power metal bands.

Rocket Ride is by far the best Edguy album to me; I like some Euro power metal (like early-ish Helloween), but IMO Hellfire Club and Rocket Ride had the right idea by trimming some of the fat and having more straight ahead stuff.

But the weird thing is that afterwards, the band seemed to get both simpler in terms of songs AND more pompous in terms of arrangements. I remember first hearing Robin Hood in the car with my mother (came up on the local radio station), and being quite embarrassed because the song was not good at all! And this was after me expecting this to be good after Rocket Ride.

I will say that they put on a fine show when they opened for the Scorpions on their "farewell tour" (yeah right), and that the new songs on the compilation they did last were all enjoyable. Since the band seems to be basically finished, they at least ended on a high note then. (I also seem to remember that the Space Police or whatever it was called album was pretty good, but I somehow never got around to pick that one up)

Not a huge fan of Avantasia, it's too much of a musical and not enough of rock albums to me, sheer pomp, but it's fine for what it is and obviously very succesful.

Most of the songs I have ranked near the top are from Slippery, New Jersey, Keep The Faith and These Days. Most of the the songs I have ranked at the bottom are from the last four albums. I think Tobias would concur.

He oughta rank You Had Me From Hello higher, seeing he lifted a lot of that one for Save Me!

I agree with a lot of that. The first three albums had good songs, but Tobi was leaning too far into his influences. Not surprising considering he was still a teenager for much of that run. Mandrake is a quality power metal album, but yes I think the blend was found with Hellfire Club.

By Rocket Ride, he went straight for that 80s sound. Tinnitus Sanctus didn't know what it was, mixing the Edguy and Avantasia sounds and not sure how far to lean into the classic rock sound. This album is when Tobi went full Bon Jovi. There is a video of them doing Dead or Rock at a festival and he is basically dressed as Jon.

The Joker album, which I don't remember the name of, was very mixed. It had some good stuff but weak songs too. And yeah, I agree with Robin Hood. I admired Tobi for never getting dragged into the loudness war, but that album was missing volume in the mix. Space Police was hit and miss too, but had top songs when it was good.

Avantasia up until The Scarecrow was top tier, getting that bombastic operatic metal right. Since then it has been very patchy and I don't like the last two albums at all.

To me, a band like Kissin' Dynamite does whatever Tobi was trying to do in the Tinnitus Sanctus era, but a lot better. They also have weird power metal tendencies (weird since IMO hair metal is still fundamentally rooted in the blues, and power metal is as remote from the blues and sensual ****ing riffage/music as you can get), such as modulating to major for choruses, but they seem a bit more committed - the hair cut of their lead singer basically says it all!

Not a _great_ band mind you, but probably perfect at what they wanna do

If you get a chance I'd be interested to know what you think of these two songs.

I never once thought of You Had Me From Hello when listening to Save Me. I like Save Me but I much prefer introspective Tobias à la Alone In Myself as far as ballads go.

We're wildly off topic and I am feeling bad for the OP, but I don't get to talk about Edguy with people often. I too didn't see the link between Save Me and You Had Me From Hello, I will take a listen after. In my opinion, Save Me reminded me of 80s KISS.

The intros to me are very very similar

There's 12 songs and 1 bonus track

80s kiss makes more sense to me than You Had Me From Hello.