Jon's shot voice
 

Why did Jon's voice go so fast on the sww tour? It seemed quite good at the UK shows in late 1986 but then it's ruined by March 1987.

They still played the songs in their original keys which was a lot tougher on his voice since he always went to the limit of his vocal range in the studio (from the NJ tour onwards the songs were always downtuned at least half a step).
Furthermore, Slippery When Wet rocketing to the top of the charts meant an enormous rise in demand for live shows. There were up to 5 shows per week and he simply didn't have the knowledge and training on how to preserve his vocals back then. He just gave everything he had on stage every night and that backfired quite fast.

His vocal cords were literally bleeding and he was getting steroid shots in them regularly to help him perform. I can't even listen to SWW bootlegs. They make my throat hurt!

A lot of people fault Jon for the way he sings now but the vocal cords are very delicate... If you add up all the shows, all the promos, and all the abuse, there are a lot of miles on those cords... Adele just cancelled her tour because of vocal cord damage and she also just had surgery a few years prior... The girl is only 29 with 3 albums and 3 tours under her belt to date... If this was the 80's, they would have shot steroids in her throat and told her to go back out there... When you look back, it's amazing that words can still come out of Jon's mouth... Blame Doc Mcghee for Jon's current vocal state, not Jon...

Sure there is a small 5% pool who can still do it but there is a larger 95% pool who can not...

People are always asking why he doesn't have surgery. It's like no one considers that with any kind of surgery, some people are good candidates and others are not. My great aunt had throat surgery many years ago and was never able to sing again.

I think it's a little too easy to just blame Doc for it. Yes, there was an enormous amount of strain on him during those eras and they have their share of his vocals being in the state they're currently in. But Jon still has contributed enough to this by himself: his chain-smoking period radically thinned out his voice and reduced his range drastically within two years. And the most important factor is that he had never acquired a proper singing technique at any point in his career.

Did Jon smoke in the 80s?

He did not. The video director had him smoking in She Don't Know Me, but he said it was just for the video. There are also some young photos with a cigarette, but again, just staged to make him look tougher. He really picked up the habit on the set of Moonlight and Valentino because all the actresses in the movie smoked to keep from eating. Everyone in the original band has been a smoker at one time or another.

While his voice was somewhat damaged, the Cincinnati bootleg from March 1987 is still very enjoyable. By the time I saw them in Rockford in May 1987, I remember being disappointed with the way he sounded. This was pre-internet, Twitter, and message boards. At the time, I just thought he didn't sound that good live. Realized much later all the struggles he went through on that tour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's definitely painful to hear Jon sing on the SWW Tour. Poor guy. The effort was there and the passion was there - but the voice was completely broken. He's lucky he didn't permanently damage his vocal cords on that tour.

Slightly different take on Jon's shot voice. If Jon didn't constantly smoke - his voice would be much closer to his prime years (early 90s) and his technique would not have slipped.

The reason his voice is completely awful today has nothing to do with the improper singing he did in his early career, or the SWW Tour vocal trauma. All those events happened in the early/mid 80s. Proof? Take a listen to his singing on the New Jersey album and the tour that supported it. His voice and singing were steps ahead of what he was doing on previous albums (and tours). His technique was a bit better as well. He worked with a coach during that time and his singing on a technical level got better throughout the late 80s into the early 90s. He relied less on a "throaty" chest-pulled tone (which strains the vocal cords) and started mixing more head voice into his belts. Take a listen to his singing on Keep The Faith and those amazing live performances he did throughout 1992 and 1993. There's a change in his singing style - it's a bit less raw and more refined.

While he wasn't the most technically accomplished singer, he did build up a solid enough technique in the early 90s to be able to sing pretty much anything in his catalog and sound great. The trouble is that he started constantly smoking in late 1994. That took its toll on his voice starting in a subtle way - vocal stamina issues:

While he was still singing great on the 1995 tour overall and sounded great - there are some subtle signs that the smoking was causing early permanent damage. One sign that some people have (correctly) pointed out was the thinner and lighter tone he started getting. His range was intact and the belts were still strong, but there's awkward moments throughout the tour where he forces his mid range notes (trying to pull chest higher up to hit notes with power) and either misses his mark or sounds really rough. The smoking also started reducing his vocal stamina live and making his register switching and blending less than stellar. These negative effects were further developed on the 1996 leg. When you combine a long tour with an unhealthy smoking habit (which then beats at your vocal cords) it's just a disaster waiting to happen.

One positive thing that the 1986-1987 vocal blow out did, was it forced Jon to get a vocal coach and some training to be able to keep his instrument intact. If Jon continued to sing in the same style as he did pre-1988, he would likely have no singing voice within a decade.

Sorry, I don't agree with any of this!!!

First off, I don't blame the Slippery years for taking Jon's voice... I blame the Slippery years, the New Jersey years, and even the Keep The Faith years... A decade of strain, bad technique, and abuse is what I blame. Jon screaming with his high pitched signature scream throughout the entire New Jersey tour is what I blame...

Like any other damaged muscle, you can pound the heck out of it when you are young but it will definitely catch-up with you later on in life... Age also takes on a natural regression in most men as well... It's a fact that most male voices deepen with age. I do agree that smoking is the worst thing Jon could have done but I don't think it's the contributing factor... His voice was already declining before he started smoking...

I recently went to a Brett Michael's show and also watched some recent footage of Sebastian Bach and it's all the same for them too...

Back in the 80's, Rock Stars didn't last this long and I don't think Jon was looking 35 years ahead.. If someone told a 23 year old JBJ, "if you continue to sing like this, you probably won't be able to sing 35 years from now", He was probably like, "who cares, as long as I could make it to 20 I'm good" Just saying!!!!

Very well analyzed and you've given some profound information about it. It's pretty much how I see it as well though I couldn't have explained it that well in English. Thanks for doing that!

You are absolutely 100% correct with your analysis and have noted the nuances and changes in Jon's voice over the years quite well.

I still just find it so baffling that Jon decided to take up smoking in the mid 90's. It just seems like a really silly decision for any one who makes a living out of their voice...especially for someone who is as level headed and business minded as Jon...

Sorry, I didn't read all of the thread so I don't know if it was touched upon, wasn't he smoking as early as the 80's?

No. He has said many, many times that he started smoking on the set of M&V. Given the complete stupidity of a 32 year old singer taking up smoking, I'm sure this is true. Why make himself look like an idiot if it's not true.

But, what happened to Jon's voice between the summer of 2011 and the spring of 2012? During concerts such as Oslo, Helsinki, London, Dublin (both nights), Bucharest, Mannheim, Udine, Vienna, Barcelona, San Sebastian and Lisbon '11 his voice was fresh, he could hit the high notes on the ballads like nothing at all, he went far out of his vocal comfort zone (additional high notes, rasp/screaming etc.) on multiple occasions...

All of that had completely disappeared by around May '12. Why?

Back in 2012 I just blamed it on him not working on his vocals during off-tour times since he also had sounded rather average for the promo and one-off shows in 2009 and it had even taken him up to 15 shows in 2010 to get back into the groove.
But looking back at it - the new-found way of singing had probably also taken its toll on him. Not only did they tour immensely between 2008 and 2011, but as he regained confidence in his singing they dug out all of the vocally demanding stuff that had mostly been avoided in the 2003-2006 period.
He was in good form in Europe 2011 and it was a great time to be a fan, but there were already some signs of him being on the maximum of his capabilities. In Dresden and Munich I noticed him straining his chords much harder on songs like IBTFY than he had done in 2010, in Barcelona the energy was immense, but the voice not up for all of the set and Dusseldorf had been quite off for most of the night.
While he was still able to hit a great amount of notes and was stunning on nights when he was on (like I attended at the concert in Mannheim), his tone had slowly degraded (to an even more nasal one) from 3 years prior. I always like to take I Believe for comparison: Yes, the Lisbon 2011 version was stunning in its way of delivery and the passion behind it, but going by the singing alone the one from Twickenham 2008 is much easier to listen since he didn't push that much to belt out the notes. It seemed so much more natural then. That was moaning on a high level for a 50 year old who had to sing these difficult songs back then, but a difference had already been noticeable.

Thank you for the answer, bonjovi90 - I also think that may well have been the case.

But there's one thing I've never understood: how was it even possible for Jon to drop so low in terms of vocal stamina/abilities during the BWC tour? I understand that the Richie fiasco probably had quite a big impact on his vocal confidence (e.g. he had to push his voice harder as the backing harmonies became less prominent), but for the most part, Jon still sounded pretty decent during the 2nd North American leg (the first without Richie) and, while struggling majorly at times, was able to hit most of the notes on songs like Always and Bed Of Roses - something that started to "slip" in South Africa and Europe (May-June '13), and disappeared completely as soon as they hit the States again in July.

That said, even during the European leg (while having already lost a significant amount of vocal power and a bit of range, at least in terms of consistency), Jon was able to hit some of the high notes in songs like These Days and This Ain't A Love Song (for example, in Milan he hit the last "Yes I'm wrong..." of TAALS perfectly). And even though he was already having an extremely hard time with Always in general (most noticeably at the Gdansk show), he pretty much nailed it - as far as the '13 standards go - in Manchester, Birmingham, Madrid, Milan and London, at least.

Then again, he was already struggling a lot with Bad Name, Raise Your Hands, Born To Be My Baby, It's My Life, Keep The Faith, In These Arms and Prayer. Even some of the super-easy stuff like Captain Crash and Who Says started to become a "hit-and-miss", and that f***ing annoying "eeeee..." phrasing started to kick in as well, especially towards the end of the leg. It was particularly irritating on RYH, BTBMB and WLOL, and as Jon still continues to use it, I really hope that he'll soon find another way of pronouncing certain words while singing. Also, his voice started cracking on some of the high notes much more often than it ever used to do before (for example, during TD and TAALS in Prague).

By the time the band returned to tour the USA in mid-July '13, Jon's vocal stamina had already weakened considerably, even compared to the shows they had performed just a couple of weeks earlier in Europe. While I wasn't a Jovitalk member yet back on the BWC tour, in late 2015/early last year (nonetheless, before entering the boards myself) I checked some posts about the Always performance in Chicago on July 12th, and the comments included remarks like the following:

"The first chorus was passable, but man... The second and third were so out of key, it made me cringe. He was so far from hitting the notes, this was terrible."

"It's pitiful to listen to this."

"Always performances have pretty much summed up this tour for me. It was a song that Jon had managed to reclaim in 08 to great success, which for the most part continued into the Circle tour. Arguably he was singing Always then better than he ever did, including 95/96. The general feeling was he'd never be able to sing it again after the Bounce tour, so it was a real joy to be proven wrong. But now he keeps peddling it out, desperate to prove he can still sing it, but he clearly can't. It sounds like he's desperately trying to keep up with the song, and failing."

As my own comment, I'd like to admit that Always wasn't the only song he struggled mightily on during the Chicago show - he also performed probably one of the worst (electric) BOR versions I've ever heard him do. Even the ones from early 2010, while Jon dodged most of the high parts, were better in my opinion - at least back then Jon realized that his voice wasn't fresh enough to hit them. In Chicago he went for all of the high notes, but, for the most part, failed miserably.

And I can safely say that the auto-tuned MetLife concert video from July 25th that got broadcasted on bonjovi.com in August '13 (if I remember correctly) was a very obvious sign about Jon himself already thinking by the time that his voice was too bad to include it on an official live release (even if it was "only" an Internet one) in its original, un-doctored form. The digital pitch correction during songs like KTF, Prayer, Always and TD was so obvious, it was a (bad) joke. Even the easier-than-easy stuff like Water and Who Says was strongly doctored, obviously to (unsuccessfully) hide the fact that Jon couldn't sing basically any of the songs on the set list in key anymore.

However, this was only the beginning of a VERY big downward spiral. The Rock In Rio gig was a crap one as a whole (the set list was terribly inconsistent and Rich Scannella, replacing Teek, kept on f***ing up fills that would be easy to nail decently for pretty much anyone, myself included - and I'm not a technically accomplished drummer at all). But basically all the other flaws became obsolete once you paid attention to how Jon sounded. Yep, the guy's voice was shot to hell... literally, as it really was hell to listen to his voice throughout the show. Sometimes he'd hit a note or two - like during KTF - and you'd hold (a small amount of) hope for a split second, but by the time the band came back for the encore, Jon had lost his voice completely. Always was so big of a mess that, prior to hearing the performance for the first time, I couldn't even imagine JBJ being "able" to butcher it - or any song for that matter - as badly as he did there.

And I think we all know basically everything about the rest of the tour (Brisbane etc.)... but I still wonder how it all could happen, even acknowledging the huge mental pressure Jon faced after Richie's departure.

But looking back at it - the new-found way of singing had probably also taken its toll on him. Not only did they tour immensely between 2008 and 2011, but as he regained confidence in his singing they dug out all of the vocally demanding stuff that had mostly been avoided in the 2003-2006 period.
Why did they avoid the vocally demanding stuff in 2003-2006? His voice didn't sound bad at all. Also what helpedo him sing the hard songs again in 2008? Was it the new technique?

Jon's voice sounded fine by current/recent standards even in '03-'06, but back then Jon's high register, while still pretty impressive in comparison to 2013 onwards, was sounding extremely rough (compared to the 90s and even early 00s). Just take a look at the version of These Days the band played at the Giants Stadium, New Jersey in 2006:

https://youtu.be/Om7Vo__oJhE

He didn't yet sing in that extremely annoying nasal voice that he began to use on the LH tour to help himself hit the high notes more easily, but his old singing technique (the one he had been using since the mid-90s) wasn't working anymore either, and as the result he was often sounding very forced, out of breath, and sometimes basically powerless.

My two cents - I used to blame it on smoking for Jon, but I don't anymore. It played a part, sure, but I've seen too many singers that have sustained their voices in a good-great shape despite being heavy smokers.

It's never healthy to push your vocal chords to the top of your range and that's what Jon has done his entire career - in studio (120% effort) and on stage (100% effort). Good singers sing in their comfort zone most of the time and maybe occasionally showcase their voice once per concert/album or so. But Jon always recorded in the highest key humanly possible and it was extremely taxing for him to try to replicate it (even half step down) during live performances given their heavy touring schedule. Even in the 90s, when we consider Jon's voice to be great (righftully so), he was still straining it every night during some songs - remember, he did In These Arms and Dry County in original key in 1992; Always and Saturday Night in original key in 1994; Something To Believe In half-step down, but still with all the high notes! then he sometimes did With A Little Help From My Friends - Crazy! And in the 2008-2011, like bonjovi90 said, he pushed himself to give us some highly-demanding stuff and the decline was already evident in 2011. It seemed to me at the time like it was just fatigue (the end of the long tour), but it obviously proved to be permanent. And sadly, his voice will keep getting worse and worse, because right now he strains the shit out of his chords just so he could attempt to reach the right key in what used to be easy stuff, like Bad Name, Wanted, IML, etc., while in studio stuff like Roller Coaster, Labor Of Love, Scars, title track, etc. are all things that may not seem like challenging, but it's still above the "sustainability line" for him and he still has to push hard to nail it live.

I wonder if Jon's voice was just not suited for rock and roll where guys have to sing like 12 year old girls! If his career was in country I believe he would still have his voice and would have sung within his natural range instead of always pushing it with constant high notes and a screams.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post this or not; so mods, feel free to move it somewhere else if you think it's better. It's a long read; but some of you who have been interested in the more technical aspects of Jon's vocal issues might find it interesting. He isn't mentioned in the article; but it's a discussion of the vocal cord issues that so many singers are faced with lately, causing them to cancel shows and sometimes even tours due to the problem.

There's a fairly in-depth discussion of vocal cord microsurgery and the merits/risks of surgery vs. retraining the vocalists to sing in such a way that their vocal cords aren't damaged. I found it quite interesting and thought some of you, especially the singers among us, might be interested as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...g-their-voices

I watched The Script do an interview today and Danny the singer had vocal surgery in January of last year and pretty much mentioned what's said in this article.

Said how usually 99.9% are fine but Julie Andrews is one in particular that didn't go as planned.

He said he couldn't speak at all for a month. Couldn't burp or cough or do anything. He even used an app to communicate with other people.

I've always thought his voice live is weak so it's a good job he got the operation and listening to him perform his new single, he definitely has improved his range a bit more.

I'd love JBJ to go for it.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

Well, in my opinion he ruined his vocal chords by writing songs that don't fit in his vocal range. The mantra of "professional singers need to sing everything" it's a total bullshit.

I think the first Bon Jovi record written with this on mind was THINFS.

Agreed. He always went to the limit of his then-current range on every album, hence them having to downtune all the songs live from 1988 onwards in order to give him the chance to make it through a tour. Looking back at it - maybe he'd still have his voice (or parts of it), had he taken a more conservatice approach to the songwriting. But then again I'm happy to at least have two decades of great powerful vocals instead of them having played it safe for all of their career.
The first album where he actually admitted that he had considered the live aspect and hence not gone for the too demanding notes was What About Now. I remember that interview where he talked about Livin' On A Prayer, how his voice had mellowed out over the years and how he'd taken that into consideration when being in the studio for the album.

I remember him saying his 50 year old self would tell the 20 year old that "Livin' On A Prayer" didn't need the key change at the end to make it even higher!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He should just go and have a throat procedure, if he cares enough (which I'm afraid he doesn't)

Steven Tyler also sings very high pitched songs his whole career. He is also screaming a lot more than Jon.
He did decline with years, but not nearly as much as Jon did.

And he took this surgery, it's probably not the same condition that Jon has, but anyway, he should do something that helps his chords.

Who are we to say that he does't care enough? None of us are doctors that know what his vocal problems are.

There's been more than just one occasion on which Steven Tyler was accused of using backing tapes, too. One in particular I can think of dates back to the 90s, when a German band stated that Tyler was running in front of the amps with the mic open and not a single interference from that.

Not talking about backing tapes, they both used them occasionally. I'm also not hating on Jon, I think he is trying really hard with this current condition.

I'm just comparing how much he declined over the years vs Tyler regarding the voice.

Yes we are not doctors - but I sincerely doubt he went to see a doctor about his vocal chords.

And Tyler is still a rock presence on a stage, Jon doesn't even look like a rock star when up there anymore. I know he's not gonna 'paint his nails black and have 'bitch' sign on his belt', but if he at least put on his Captain America jacket on, it would already improve his presence even though he doesn't move away from the mic stand - but that's another discussion.

Back up that theory, based on what makes you think he doesn't care enough about his voice to see a doctor?

Because medicine is very very advanced this day and age. We would have seen improvements or at least hear some whispers about it, like we hear about everything else in today's world.

But that's my opinion.

What? Outside of the canned vocals for Prayer, when did the band using taped vocals outside of TV appearances?

In These Arms, back in 1993.

Hasn't It's My Life always had taped backing vocals?

He's talking about lead vocal parts, not backing vocals (which most bands playback at least on some songs, sadly).

This is really out of topic now. Not important for the discussion. We are talking about Jon's voice. And I compared his decline with Steven Tyler's decline which is so much less.

I've read quite a few stories about singers who lost their singing voices when dealt with stressful situations like a divorce. Found this article while browsing the Net:

http://www.britishvoiceassociation.o...tion-voice.htm

When we perceive something as threatening or upsetting the body reacts rapidly, preparing for action and producing physical changes that we are all familiar with. These may include:

Increased muscle tension
Increased heart and breathing rates
Perceived changes in temperature with shivering or sweating
Tremor
Dry mouth and throat

Common physical signs of distress include:

Gut problems: (e.g. acid reflux and irritable bowel syndrome)
Skin problems: (e.g. eczema /psoriasis)
Back, neck or other muscle pain (including laryngeal pain)
Breathing difficulties: (e.g. over-breathing panic attacks, a trigger for attacks in some asthmatics)
Hoarseness (dysphonia) or complete voice loss/whisper (aphonia)

Well, some of you observed that Jon has breathing problems and drinks a lot on stage. That would fit some of the signs at least...