Def Leppard vs Bon Jovi
 

http://rockhole.bravepages.com/defjovi.html

Discuss.

I don't particularly agree with the author of this article, I think whilst there are similarities between Def Leppard & Bon Jovi's sound (probably why many fans of one are fans of the other, myself included) i don't think it's enough to warrant the stigma of "copying". Interesting how many Jovi decisions that are derided on this board as 'selling out' are praised in this article.

A good and interesting read! And they are spot on about Jovi's promotion and marketing in recent years, and while we can love it or hate it, it has worked in some way.

But, Hysteria >> Slippery When wet, there I said it. Its a better complete album in my opinion. But Leppard have never come close to that again, whereas Jovi followed up Slippery to complete the holy trinity with NJ and KTF, a real home run! And then of course These Days..

But I don't agree that much with Bon Jovi intentionally 'copying' def leppards early sound..

andi

I have to say that I completely agree with you. I think as a whole album Hysteria is better, it really was their version of Thriller - 7 hit singles on one album is an incredible feat.

But in general Bon Jovi have proved to be much more consistent than Def Leppard, all Bon Jovi's following albums were better than DL's. I also think that Bon Jovi are better live.

With regard to the copying sound issue - i don't think they copied it at all - it's similar but distinct enough not to be copied.

Yeah, and Def Leppards early stuff before Hysteria, albeit still a commercial sound, was still closer to hard rock/ metal as part of the NWOBHM than Jovi who were alot more pop sounding.

But it would be hard not to be bitter if you were a band and another new band on the scene starts to steal your audience.
The truth be told, Jon and Richie are just better songwriters than anyone in Lep, Jon is ALOT more charismatic than Joe, and along with all the fluff Bon Jovi can and have written serious and mature songs throughout their whole career (Dry Country on a Leppard album? wouldn't work) As good as 'Slang' was, it was a one off and they went back to their one trick sound, whereas Jovi at least have a bit more of variety going on in their song writing (well, most of the time..haha)

andi

That's a very old article and discussed on here before. My opinion hasn't changed - Bon Jovi has crushed Def Leppard successfully because their music is better. Period. They can complain about marketing all they want. I'm a DL fan, but they haven't released a solid album since Euphoria. X was good, and Songs From....was pretty horrible. Plus, they don't mix their live sets up at all.

All of these bands can bitch and moan all they want - Poison, Crue, Leppard, etc. I love them all, but they simply don't write as good a song as Jon and Richie and the music overall isn't as good.

I know we compare Hysteria to Slippery for sales purposes, but I would use New Jersey as Bon Jovi's masterpiece, and it shits all over Hysteria in my opinion. As to which record has held up better over time, there's no question, Slippery has. It still sells to this day, and has sold 8 million more copies than Hysteria worldwide.

The article is a good summary. As a big fan of both bands, I have been disappointed by both bands' outputs since mid 90's (These Days & Slang) and never thought they matched their earlier outputs, but I agree that Bon Jovi made the right business and marketing decisions to maintain their success level, and Def Leppard did not (some are due to reasons beyond their control).

When I buy a Bon Jovi/Def Leppard album these days, I expect some good songs and some god awful fillers. But Def Leppard pisses me off when it comes to the setlist. After X tour, they just gave up and played short greatest hits set. They can still do it (see Japan's recent setlists) but the fact that they don't want to do the same in other parts of the world

Meh, you don't see Fran Healy or Travis fans whinging about Coldplay do you?

Im gonna say something that maybe harsh. Def Leppard should have ditched the drummer when he lost his arm. There - its out there. The drumming sound ruins every Def Leppard album. Its sounds fake.

Def Leppard are ok but none of their albums come close to Jovi.

Not a fan of DL tiny sound (sounds like their songs come off a PC), vocals (elliot cant sing), guitar (no solos in a lot of songs) and drums.

I know Joe Elliott has a lot of respect for Bon Jovi musically (him and jbj are good mates) and always mentions them in interview. I have the new Classic Rock mag where Joe and Nikki Sixx are being interviewed about their tour toghether and both say that Jovi blew everyone out of the water from 87-90.

But for me - and im not even wearing my Jovi glasses - Jovi are by far and away the better band.

Jovi not only survived grunge but they were succesful through it. Leppard wasnt and havent really recovered since. They cant tour like Jovi can.

Some fair points and some I think you're way off about. The ratio of solos in Lep songs to Jovi songs is pretty steep. There are far more Leppard solos. I agree with the production, it's too plastic sounding. Sometimes I wonder if Rick is on them as much as we're lead to believe. Has anyone heard otherwise? I know there were a handful of the Yeah! tracks that aren't him.

The drumming on Songs From The Sparkle Lounge was good and didn't sound fake... I'm now hoping that it was actually him

That's kind of what worries me. I much prefer the sound of non-electronic drums and get worried it's a session guy.

The way Leps have recorded since Hysteria (apart from Slang) is that the drums are programmed and Rick only plays the cymbals live. It was even shown on some home video, like Visualize or something. It's no secret, although I'm not sure if they still do it.

To be frank, none of you (or me for that matter) could tell the difference between real and sampled drums anymore, it's not been possible in years. The only way to tell is if the time is too perfect, but even that can be faked.

Ice

I'm not a Leppard fan, but I've heard that the last decade Rick has made his drum kit more acoustic again, so I think he's playing everything again with his feet.

Sure seemed that way the last time I saw them.

Yeah. I'm referring to the songs on Slang and a few here and there that aren't his usual kit. I'm not asking for a full acoustic set, just something a little more realistic. I loved the songs on Euphoria but the production on the drums drove me up the wall.

I love Def Lep, but the only reason people see them are to listen to their old sound - The Hysteria, Adrenalize, Pyromania sound. When they tour they only play the hits (even though albums like Euphoria had perfectly good material). When they tried to expand musically (Slang) then they were met with less success that they had before and never really recovered.

Like Jovi, Leps post 2000 stuff has been mediocre with a few good exceptions. X (2002) was an album that is reminiscent of some of Jovi's efforts from around the same time (Bounce/HAND). Theres a middle of the road, cliched lyrics, wall of guitars, slightly overpolished sound that both of the aging pop metal bands adopted.

Live he's been playing everything apart from a few loops (like Rocket), but it's not "acoustic", it can't be since he's triggering the sounds with his feet.

I was referring to recordings.


Ice

Jon and Def Leppard on stage together 1992

Now that we are discussing drumming, I´m going to bring this up: Can you or someone else confirm if the drums on BJ´s This Is Love This Is Life are actually real or fake? I mean, there are hardly no fills at all and the overall feel on the track is a bit machine-like. It makes me wonder if Shanks has gone a bit too far this time.

Sorry to change the subject, though.

Ditto to No Apologies. Both sound so plastic.

And I've said this before but I wouldn't pin it on Shanks completely. The band can veto anything they don't like. Granted you'd think the machine was there due to the speedy length of time they record songs now.

I'd just like to point out that Richie's there too.

That will be all.

The sound quality may be shite, but that video was cool nonetheless.

Wierd seeing Jon and Richie on the Adrenalize stage!

def leppard plays a bit of wanted in this covers medley...from the same night jon and richie jumped on stage with them

wow that's an awful cover of wanted.

Saw Def Leppard live for the first time in Birmingham last week and although I really wasn't in the mood (back/legs were aching), they were good to be fair.

About the drummer, he was using a pedal which seemed to be split. He moved his foot to the top end to control the hihat and the bottom end to control the snare. I may be wrong, but that's how it looked to me.

You're right, I'm sorry!! That wasn't intentionally. Richie's name should have been included!!

You're wrong.

Rick has a series of pedals and each one triggers a different sound, and the sounds can be changed from song to song.

From Wikipedia:
Most electronic drums use piezoelectric triggers which sense a hit from a drumstick or a pedal and activate a sampled or synthesized sound in response. The customized kit built by Simmons for Allen included drum pads (placed primarily in front of Allen and to his right) triggering the sound of the snare drum and toms to be played with his surviving arm, combined with multiple pedals (mainly placed on the floor to his left), duplicating many of the same sounds. This allowed Allen (after much practice) to play patterns using his right hand and left foot that two-armed drummers would typically play with their right and left hands. Allen subsequently experimented with hardware from other electronic percussion companies, such as Clavia's drum system, Forat's F/16 system, and the Hart Dynamics Acupad system.
In more recent years, as the artificial drum sound popular in the 1980s has largely disappeared, Allen has favoured a sound more like that of an acoustic drum kit, using the electronic pads to trigger samples made from recordings of Allen's acoustic drums.


http://stat.ks.kidsklik.com/statics/...0589057656.jpg


http://www.moderndrummer.com/web_exc...4/Rick%20Allen


Plus he's using a lot of loops, a la Rocket.



Ice

Fair enough. That's just how it looked to me.

I would not compare them. Two different bands with different sounds.

Def Leppard didn't have a member called Desmond Child, that's why they failed.

By what measure have Def Leppard failed? And I don't think you can solely attribute Bon Jovi's success and longevity to Desmond Child.

I totally agree. Desmond's song writing is outdated and hasn't done anything for this band in 15 years. A modest hit with MAM but that’s it.

Nope, they had a member called Mutt Lange.....

Indeed, Mutt Lange sh1ts over Desmond Child, bar one or two exceptions of course...

Back in Black, Highway to Hell, Bryan Adams best work, Hysteria and even Nickelback..

oOo..but then again Des has some good stuff with Aerosmith, Kiss, Alice Cooper and The Loaf...

My brain hurts.

andi

I never can tell if Sexx is a gimmick account or not.

His facebook account is utterly ridiculous, so maybe.

Haha just clicked on it, what in the name of...?! those profile pics are utterly hilarious and I will never take any of his/hers/its posts here seriously again, but its ok as he/she has 4960 facebook 'friends' so will fine.

No offence intended, its just funny as funk.


andi

Has to be. No one can possibly be as ignorant about music as he is.

Mutt is a decent producer but I don't like most of the generic songs he wrote.

Hysteria and Adrenalize didn't stand the test of time, unlike the songs Child wrote for Bon Jovi.

You won't win fans with songs like "Let's get Rocked". Seriously, a 30+ years old dude singing about not wanting to take out the trash? :lol:

Even more hilarious is that one of your favorite bands is considered as one the most androgynous :lol: :lol:

But you will win friends with songs like "Hysteria", "Animal", "Armageddon It", "Love Bites", "Pour Some Sugar on Me", "Photograph", "Stand Up", "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad" - need I continue?

oh and Hysteria did stand the test of time.

and your point does not make sense when comparing Def Leppard to Jovi, a 50 year old guy singing WGIGO and This Is Our House? Yeah okay mate...