Did John Shanks ruin Bon Jovi?
 

I've nothing against John Shanks as a person, but I think all the album he produced with Bon Jovi have been less and less rock and more and more pop. On the one hand he's produced 4 number one albums with the band, on there other... wel... 'What About Now'.

'What About Now' being the most obvious pop album. I was disappointed with 'This House Is Not For Sale' and Phil X's lack of involvment - he plays guitar on only 4 tracks, the rest is John Shanks apparently. Since he became producer they've not had any really good songs.

It's an interesting thing to debate. From day one they were pop band with louder guitars and some bluesier undertones in the 90s. Modern Bon Jovi doesn't have that. Some days I think the production is the issue, some days I think it's the lazy songwriting. To say they haven't had any good songs since he started producing them I could not disagree with more. There's a lot of gold but the mediocrity kind of outweighs it.

No! Jon's voice ruined Bon Jovi

I don't think that John Shanks was the only one who took the big decisions about BJ's style. Let's not forget that he is the producer not only in What about now or other "disliked albums" but he also worked on HAND, Burning Bridges and THINFS, which are fine... I guess that JBJ wanted to have this outcome, he chose to collaborate with Shanks and kept him for 10+ years. So, maybe it was Jon's decision to follow this path that you think is "ruined"... If he wasn't happy with this he could change it, or even search for a new producer, he is JBJ!

Couldn't agree more -- not that Jon needed anyone to persuade him to systematically disenfranchise Richie.

Now it's a Richie issue?

80% him, 20% Jon's voice...!:cool:

Of course! Shanks saw the opportunity to replace Richie as long as he didn't outshine Jon, and he took it. Phil's status in the band speaks for itself. And I also agree about Jon's voice being gone.

I tjhink that he made 3 albums which sound good in their own style:
HAND
LH
THINFSale

2 albums are too bit of different production and doesn't sound like a album. They sound like some different songs with differend production put in one cd.

With Shanks they relased some of my favourite BJ songs like Dirty Little Secret, Any Other Day, Nothing, Thick AT, BATommorow ecc so no. He not killed them.

These albums would sound better with other producer? Some songs probably yes and some different. But you know...I don't like some songs on KTF like Blame or Sleep and any different producer than Bob Rock would do something that it would make that I will love them. This is the same situaction with Shanks. I don't have any wrong word on his work on HAND, LH and THINFSale... someone could probably make it better but maybe not. Who knows?

I dont like to see Shanks to play guitars with the band, or to see him on band videos, we have Phil X.

Bon Jovi music is mostly composed and recorded by Shanks, not Phil. If you want to see the real thing, you need to watch both on stage.

Shanks is a band member longer than Alec John Such at this moment. He composed and played on Bon Jovi albums since HAND. Even his first live performance with the band was around that time. His position in the band keeps growin. I don't think he will withdraw after the first 2017 world tour as Bon Jovi. But you'll never know...

"Shanks has now more BJ membership duration than Alec".. Although semi accurate, since Shanks has not had a role as clear, it is a painful revelation, now that I think of it.

I agree that Shanks' presence & influence is as much a JBJ decision.

But yes. Probably a bad factor to the whole output, in my opinion.

This guy desperately wants to be The Edge.. Put this together with JBJs attempts to outlavigne Avril Lavigne, and you get a totally inexplosive mix of boring soulless compromise.

Any Other Day was not produced by Shanks.

To that end, it is good that Richie's departure shook things up a bit, however we do need another production approach. Let Shanks be in the band and do his forgetable guitar work there, but at least put somebody else in the production room, bring some fresh ears there, allow another persons imagination to help shape the next new BJ sound!! :-)

For the question to apply, Bon Jovi would have to be ruined, which they are not. So, no.

They are better than they have been in years.

How can people really think like this? You think he took his time to oust Richie because he saw the opportunity? Is Jon really that much the devil that this is your theory?

I don't know what's the biggest factor contributing to the current situation of the band but the decline is steady, that's for sure. They are fairly good now but they used to be OUT OF THIS WORLD so I can't say if 'good' can still be seen as a compliment.

There's never a shortage of creativity on this board when you look at the history. "Stink-eye" Jon has evolved to "Demonic" Jon, executing an insidious plan to destroy the light in Richie with John Shanks as his minion.

Not at all.

He has a strong resume as a producer and does his job well (e.g. his albums for other artists sound great). His influence to Bon Jovi sound is what Jon wants it to be, but I guess for some fans who are frustrated with declining quality it's easier to put the blame on the 'outsider' than their beloved 'quarterback' of the band.

Precisely. The leader calling the shots is the one to look at.

I like the band better when Bobby was there


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You read it here first: John Shanks got Richie into drinking alcohol, hoping he'd one day no longer show up to the shows after a tour break, and then two years later, he'd be able to guest on some shows alongside Phil-X! Shanks had it all planned, I swear! Jon is not the devil, he's being played like a fiddle! Shanks then introduced Richie to a lipstick-smeared cyborg, diminishing any chance of him coming to his senses and returning to the band!

"And that's exactly how it happened." (The guy at the end of the Misunderstood video.)

Ha ha ha...I love this!!

Is so funny what fans look like when are in denial.

What ruined Bon Jovi was Jon being a CEO before being an artist, frontman, singer, songwriter. It's clear to me that he was pursuing being the 'biggest', not the 'best' out there. If you remember, in 2008 he lost his shit criticizing Axl Rose for getting 'all the attention' when he was consistently producing (questionable) music.

How can a guy with 30+ years of career not improve his songwriting and especially as a guitar player? It's just because he has (or had) different priorities with his career.

And on top of that, I think The Circle is a good album, THINFS too. Lost Highway has some good songs. So, it makes me think that the problem with the output quality with Bon Jovi is not really John Shank - it was priority, off course.

IMHO Jon crossed the line so far that there's no turning back.

Those conspiracy theories about one wanting to bump another from a band are pretty far-fetched ;] I'd say Gabriel's right and it was more of the priorities which diverged in the process. Killing two (or more) birds with one stone turned out to be disastrous for the band with time. It's seems the machine is running smoothly, the albums are released regularly, promo's done, concerts' played but quantity isn't necessarily quality. I've noticed A LOT of fans appreciate Jon's hard work and conscientiousness and for that reason they turn blind eye to the steady decline of the material provided. It's NOT about putting blame on anybody in particular, taking sides or whatever. It's about being a little MORE objective. Infatuation means idealizing, love means seeing the bad things, appreciating the good things and not being afraid of making unpopular decisions if it serves higher purpose. It's even easier to do so if you can see others failing and winning around, so many scenarios to look at!

I've learnt that innovation and improvement aren't the same thing.

The band is not ruined so to the question in topic: no

I would very much prefer Shanks letting Phil do ALL the guitar work as Phil is far far superior player, as well as exactly what the band would need - rock and edge and fun

However, I would like to repeat that Bon Jovi is not ruined. It would just be even better by a simple decision to let Phil loose.

Yes,yes and yes.
Jon should had fired Shanks after Lost Highway
Bon Jovis decadence come from The Circle,and working again again with Shanks is destroying ( if not is destroyed) the band
What the New Jersey tour was almost to do,Shanks has done.

^ I love your avatar. Do you have it in a bigger size somewhere on the Net or just custom made? :P

btw. even the English meaning of the word 'shanks' doesn't do the poor man justice :p

As I said, Shanks couldn't have done so unless Jon had wanted him to. If it hadn't been Shanks, it would have been someone else.

No.

Jon had no desire to oust Richie. Richie ousted Richie. This is a fact you need to face.

Jon would prefer the band be intact with Richie being on point and in place. It sells tickets and it was a creative partnership that went on for 30 years. It was a decision made for him by Richie that it ended and he is now embracing it.

The buck stops with Jon. He's the one with the real power. It is ultimately up to him who the producer is.

Jon also pays Orianthi so that she would get Richie regularly drunk to make him look and sound bad in performances so that fans wouldn't ask to 'bring Richie back'.

Propaganda at its finest...

Agreed. Or on tour. I hate that Jon does this.

Shanks is better than Bandiera, at least.

That Jon.... is there no end to his devious ways? Who knew such evil hid behind that smile?

Exactly.....

Bandiera brought an amazing voice with him. He backed up Jon a LOT! Shanks doesn't have that going for him, and he doesn't seem to pull off the solos that well live. He's maybe a bit more technically proficient than Bobby but from his live playing, I think the solo's he did on Burning Bridges had to have been spliced together from dozens of takes....

So much acidness in some comments here, no fun at all.

That is most likely why Everett Bradley is a part of the touring band now. Seems unlikely that Jon all of a sudden feels the need to have percussion player after all these years. Of course his percussion adds a lot in some songs but he is to 80 % there because he has a great voice.
And Shanks guitar playing are way beyond Bobbys. I compared Bobbys take on Bad Name and Shanks take on it and there's really no comparing. Shanks shits all over Bobby when it comes to technique and playing solos.
Who knew it would take two guys to replace Bobby :lol:

But for me it's a win-win. A voice as good as Bobys in Everett and a guitar player much more suited for Bon Jovi in Shanks.