Short clarification and then you - thank god - are rid of me
 

I get accused by people to twist things so that Jon would fit my box. I already said I was probably wrong about the lyrics of I Want To be Loved

But the way people like Supersonic start a shitstorm and twist my words here is insulting. Not just in my case but with other people too

To make a few things clear:

I did never say I can diagnose someone with Narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissism is a spectrum, we are all somewhere in it and for me many things Jon did raise red flags for me. And I do stand by my claim that Jon is grandiose and seems to need constant validation.
I probably came across as 'oh look I am smart I know it all' I would not be able diagnose someone because I am not a clinical psychologist. I am actually someone who is rather looking for the truth than wanting to be right.

Nobody needs to agree with me but if someone insults me I think he is a prick. (by the way I have never experienced this amount of boarderline insults on the internet, the way some people are doing it here)

But personally I do trust my gut and it is usually right.

I said I did finish my degree where psychology was part of it and all of a sudden people come up saying: I said I can diagnose people because I took some classes in psychology. That is exactly what I got accused of here: Twisting words to fit an image.
I do except other people's opinions and even if I thnk they are stupid, I still know that maybe I am too stupid to get them (in some cases)

I always liked this forum because there were cool people here like Mo, Deb, bonjovi90, Captain Jovi and so on but I do have a big problem with arrogant people who are constantly trying to start a pissing contest and feel the need to prove they are right and everyone who posts something they think is stupid has to be stupid because they are right.

So bye! For most of the people I hope Jovi will put out a killer album which will surprise us all!!!

:D

Forget all the bullshit: we’re here talk, read and debate Bon Jovi. If you debate with people like Supersonic, you know what you’re letting yourself in for. But it’s just a game and everyone has their own ‘persona’.

Don’t take these things too seriously, there ain’t nobody left but us these days.

Keep the faith

Yes, I do take personal insults too seriously and when it is semi-tolerated to call someone a 'stupid c*nt' (not talking about me here) that is not a message board I want to be on. It is ok, I am not crying over it but I do think (even if it is a game and then it is not funny) a certain amount of respect towards each other should be there. I know that Supersonic loves to be the prick and the 'I know it all' guy but he also has got people backing him up even when he is being arrogant towards people. I took it with humor but at this point went too far for me

Life can be annoying enough on its own so I do not need this kind of crap bombing in my spare time.

But sure: Keep The Faith is always a good way to start:)

I suppose you can call it ‘freedom of speech’.

Also, as we don’t see each other’s faces, we don’t really know what is being said. Of course Supersonic has his followers...it’s basically their board and he’s their God.

It doesn’t bother me. I rarely comment, but find the board interesting. If it bothers you, then yep, leave it.

Good luck

I can't say everybody is treated equally here, though. If X and Y make silly jokes, they are repeatedly called out and/or banned and I understand it. Derailing threads with pages and pages of stuff you could do in private can annoy the hell out of you BUT when this or that person is openly rude to another person, uses lg that's hurtful and personally attacks them, then some follow suit AND nothing's done bc 'X is like that, deal with that', heck, it's no wonder people don't want to get involved in discussions.

If 'freedom of speech' was indeed the case, you could come up with whatever you think is fitting the topic, much as disliked the idea could be, AND expect a civil discussion with those arguments being backed up or rejected but without putting up with being called an idiot, mental, c*nt or other stfu terms. It's sick and disgusting and tbh, I wouldn't want to meet those people in person, seriously. Just imagine having a convo over a beer and constantly being bashed because they know better. So much f*ckin' fun :rolleyes:

And I absoulutely get it. I did spam the Thread quite a bit and CaptainJovi reminded me that some of my remarks were way off and I do agree with it. And that is how you should be able to communicate as a grown-up.

I don't really care if people attack me verbally or try to show off as long as I can stay away from it. Usually people with a healthy self-esteem do not feel the need to constantly tell other people they are stupid.

Anyway, talk to you in private messages, Eveline!

Freedom of Speech is one thing but if you are only degrade others it moves to something else.
It is the same when racist people say: i do have my right to say what I think' yes you do, but if you degrade people especially due to where they come from might have to face consequences.

Totally get where you’re coming from, but at the end of the day it’s the ‘you’ inside that has to decide to not take offence.

Forums will be forums, facebook will be facebook,... x

There’s a great saying in Spanish (can’t think of the English equivalent): A palabras necias, oídos sordos (For hurtful words, deaf ears)

You must be kidding me. People commit suicides bc some f*ckers bully them online and you think it's not a big deal. Those words hurt for real, virtual reality or not. I've read another quote one day. 'In a world you could be anything, be kind.' Hell, you can save or kill with that little you do sometimes. I can't imagine being a pr*ck to anybody just because I have a bad day. And I can't understand folks who tell you to suck it up. You can argue with things as much as you want, but be aware that educating others doesn't mean beating them. Show them why they're wrong if you think so. Kindly. Be a teacher, not a pr*ck. It takes a lot of self-confidence to see that hateful speech, give the author a mental middle finger and go on. Not giving a sh*t is a skill that takes time to master.

Totally agree with you re bullying and suicide and I’m not saying it’s not a big deal. Unfortunately, I have had a family member who is no longer with us due to that.

However, your last sentence is the best and most important saying and not giving a shit is what we all must strive for.

Personally, I don’t mind being called a cunt and at the same time I’m not going to call anybody a prick...what’s the point...palabras necias, oídos sordos.

You know what. If Seb and the likes of him carry on bullying others like that, I'm not gonna stay silent. That's all I know. And I don't care if his following is 5 or 500. I tried to stay away but the shit got too big. Just grow up, kid.

Aloha !

The shit got too big? Easy now, Joan of Arc, stop circlejerking around. I've never bullied anyone here, stop pulling the victim card once people question your pretentious self-centered expertise. If you can't handle being called out on your theories, stop putting them on a display that's for everyone to read.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Challenge accepted.

Aloha !

Challenge lost. That was rather easy. Now stick to your word, you were going to stay silent.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I almost feel sorry for you, man. Not that I care anyway ❤️

Aloha !

Ssshhh. Your insecurities are on full display.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I almost love you. When I'm drunk and it's f*ckin' dark. You're as sick as those kids whose parents don't want to have them vaccinated. Sometimes you're right, though, Not that I remember now.

Aloha !

So let me get this straight. You come in here all high and mighty acting like a pretentious snob claiming you'll stand up for anyone who gets bullied by me and within just 3 posts you resort to acting like an utter and utterly miserable and despicable character who's keen on giving me "a taste of my own medicine" while I've never gone to these lows you think you're pretecting everyone from unless you try me. Stop your pissing match, it's not doing anyone any favours.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

How about we all step away from here, realize that there's a real life out there and enjoy the last days of summer?

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Aloha !

Now now Dom, let's not pretend all these people are allowed to leave the house, let alone their room without guidance. The world wouldn't be safe.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I don't care. Once you stop being a pr*ck, I'm done.

Aloha !

Oh, you care and you were done once you started posting your ridiculous theories. Whatever respect people had for you was wiped off the table and you'll always be seen as "that crazy one" from now on. And you do mind, because you're one of those internet victims that's too worried for not being liked online and thus you've decided to create this internet persona that's now trying to adapt to a level unfamiliar to you. All because you want to save face. Your incapabiltiy in regards to handling criticism on your theories doesn't turn me into a prick however but it's clear why people invented the term snowflake. You can't handle the heat.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Seb, please, be humble. You're not the star you think you are.

Aloha !

No, you're getting things mixed up. I'm not the star you think I am.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Good. Very good.

X2

Feels something like summertime...

I do think you mentioned a very important point. If you want to tell someone he or she is wrong and you do it in a disrespectful way you do it for your ego.

I have to say if I were a child or a teenager Supersonic's behavior would very much intimidate me and yes, i do believe these things make people think about suicide in some severe cases.

Imagine you are like: I am very sensitive and someone like Supersonic comes around: you are sensitive like shit you are stupid as ****, etc. When I - as a grown-up with a rather normal self-esteem and years of knowing myself know not to get hurt by someone trying to judge me after reading like a few posts by me but If you are a fragile teen it might hurt you deeply. And one thing I know is that young people need others to stand up for them. It took me years to get over this bully at school calling me so damn ugly in front of half the school and other things and even being physically attacked that I later suffered from panic attacks because it got to me too much.

Eveline comes across as a victim? Saving face?

It is funny but the only person who constantly argues AGAINST every one who is criticising him is you. But it is quite common to project negative aspects of yourself onto others. Do you really not see that? I mean really? Do you seriously think you are being decent and not just constantly being rude?
Are you really like that or just constantly trolling?

Aloha !

There, I've made you say my name and I've left you running out of things to say. Who's my bitch now?

Yes. My opinion on Bon Jovi makes people think about suicide. That definitely doesn't sound strange at all.

You sure about that? If anything, your lack of self-esteem is constantly overcompensated by the nonsense you spout.

Again, leave the personal issues out of it. There's just no need for that. It's a Bon Jovi messageboard, not a Reddit therapy group. You bring in so much useless information about yourself that's got no relation to whatever you posted in regards to your opinion on Jon Bon Jovi's psychological profile. You just couldn't handle being called out on it. Whatever happened when you were 16 doesn't really matter.

Again, hush. You left the board, remember? Enough with the psychological alaysis. Is your hole not deep enough yet?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

See, you did not get what I was saying. I said if a teen would read a sentence like 'you are sensitive like shit' it might harm him or her. And as an example for this I said that these things harmed me when I was younger and I know several people who were bullied and deeply wounded by it. You are -again - twisting things: I did say the kind of behavior you display might hurt fragile people very deeply. You are showing no signs of empathy here and yes, to be honest, if everybody would act like this I would absolutely look for a hole and stay there. It is strange though, because your brother came across as a very decent person, tbh. so maybe there is still hope you are just trolling. And yes, some of your comments are so overly out of line that they are being funny, I give you that.

And I am not psychologically analysing you just because I say you are rude or projecting. That is just my opinion.

Aloha !

Again, it's all irrelevant personal information. I wasn't talking to a teenager, I was talking to you. Saying the way I act might lead to teenagers committing suicide is desperately stretching things just so you can validate the ridiculous things you've said.

I also shouldn't need to be empathic over calling a grown-up on the internet out on her bullshit. You drag in all this personal drama over being bullied for being ugly and what not into the conversation but down the line it's all irrelevant. If your personal trauma prevents you from being capable of dealing with people questioning your thoughts you should keep your thoughts to yourself as opposed to posting them out in the open. You were the one coming up with all this nonsense about Jon's infidelity and his narcissistic behaviour. Not me. And once you were called out on it you started backtracking step by step by digging an even deeper hole. None of this has done you any favours. You're the definition of a drama queen. "I'm leaving, bye" followed up by an endless stream of posts full of self pity.

But sure, what the essence of your story is, is this; You need to be dealt with as if you're a teenager as you're just not mature enough to deal with the way grown up people handle bullshit.

So here goes; Go to your room and stay there.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Sebastiaan, now it is really starting to get annoying. Eveline said that people commit suicide because they were being bullied. And I agreed to that and on a lower level people like you can be very hurtful.

There is a normal way to tell someone he or she is wrong and there is the way you do it. If you think the way you react to others is 'a normal way' to do it as a grown-up then sorry, I have to tell you that several people do not share your opinion but I am sure we are all inmature pussys who cannot 'handle the heat'

And if others don't think Jon is showing certain signs of narcissism outside the norm, I am still 'allowed' to see them. And there is no need to attack me on this.

And regarding Jonny's infidelity: He himself said he cheated and there are several songs that are about cheating; yes it can all be some show but if you talk about having cheated and writing about it it is not that far off to connect it.

I have no problem with people criticising me as long as it is respectful. It has nothing to do with anything I've experienced when I was younger. But the moment someone criticizes you, you either become defensive or insulting or you start ridiculing the other person. CaptainJovi said my remarks were way off and I do not at all have a problem with it but when you start insulting, why should I take anything you say seriously?

My final two cents on this:
Yes, Seb has had times where he may have been hard to deal with and maybe have acted over the top, but I've not seen him systematically bullying people here. Pulling pranks with fake news and websites - yes. Making fun of (partly really naive) users - yes. Bullying - no.
It seems that it frightens some people when he reacts to their theories and challenges them to properly back up something or discuss it with different points of views. As soon as some comments come across a bit harsh, he's referred to as having no other agenda than giving people a hard time or making them look bad.

And in this case, "there's two sides to every story" - to quote your Jon song about secretly cheating. Some of Seb's comments may have been harsh, I give you that, but (bar Eveline) any other user who is currently participating here called you out on your theory as well - some even with proper background in that field. When you post a theory that is, let's say, that risky - you are bound to have wind blowing in your face. And as you tried to hammer it home, no matter how many users said that it seemed a bit too far fetched, it's only natural that some get annoyed. Keep in mind that it was clogging up two threads that had nothing to do with it and when I logged in and was expecting news and kept reading the same story over and over, I was rolling my eyes as well. Especially since that very same story had been spread over several threads one or two years ago already when you had your "Soul Kitchen experience" or whatever it may have been.
If it is so important to you, you can open up a thread about and discuss it with people there. No one stops you from doing this.

And finally - yes, bullying is a very important issue in modern-days society. I'm a teacher myself and in daily institutions or peer groups on social media, that can easily take a dangerous turn. But in an open Bon Jovi forum that has been known for having a rough tone at times, every one is free to join or leave if they don't feel right here. But going from a discussion with maybe a few harsh words to the suicial part is over the edge. I'm not talking about the past or what happened in your private life, but in this case, you're no victim here. You tried to hammer home your logic and other users got fed up with it at some point.
And about this place being unfriendly - post that theory underneath a current post on Bon Jovi's IG or FB account and watch it unfold. Then you'll see that this here actually is quite a nice and cozy place to be.

And now - for the sake of everybody's health - maybe a mod can close this and we can all move on?

The difference between making fun and bullying is very subjective. I understand Seb is just carrying out his job and fulfilling what his ‘persona’ on this board entails. However, his challenging and knowledge is extremely simple and very often utter bullshit and it seems that’s when he turns to the making fun/bullying.
I don’t see any other point for him to have even responded to this thread, for example.

You get people like Seb all over the place: clever (but not necessarily intelligent) people that know a few facts and make up convincing stories and sell them as if they were knowledge. A few people think ‘wow, this guy is great’ and follow and support his stories. Others get irritated and others just step back and think ‘what an idiot’.

Different ‘personas’, that’s all. If you find challenging fun, do it; if you take offence, turn a blind eye. You’re not going to get rid of the Sebs of this world

How often do I need to say that I do not have a problem with people critizising me as long as it is not insulting. I did not complain about people thinking my theory is wrong (BTW there are people who have called Jon a narcissist and I stand by my opinion that Jon shows more tendencies regarding narcissistic traits then many other people. Never did I say he is a full blown narcissist.. I do not feel bullied by Sebastian but I do think his tone is really degrading which has nothing to do with a normal debate. I do not feel like a victim I just think (and I have to say your post of not remotly trying to understand why I said that Supersonic's is strange. Thierry called Yovana a stupid cunt. Supersonic said I should crawl in a hole. I did work as an after school teacher and I met children who had to deal with these kind of little 'harsh comments' as you call them did damage to them.

If you think these the following are nothing more than a bit harsh then - as I said - all the people who are complaining about Supersonic or Thierry being too arrogant and a bully are all idiots then:

Stupid cunt
You need to be dealt with as if you're a teenager as you're just not mature enough to deal with the way grown up people handle bullshit.
Whatever respect people had for you was wiped off the table and you'll always be seen as "that crazy one" from now on
Is your hole not deep enough yet?

These are not just a bit harsh, these are insulting, ignorant and degrading And - since you said you are a teacher - if you would tolerate this being said to one of your students OR anyone for that matter I am a bit puzzled

And as I said, I am leaving. So go on, close the thread because it is bothering you and then it is over.

I totally agree here
I say if you make fun of people but do not degrade them it is totally fun, hell, I make fun of myself all the time. Sometimes I do find challenges fun but only as long as they are not going to far with one person feeling the need to be bigger than everyone else and becoming personal.

And of course you cannot get rid of the people like Seb and neither should we but we also cannot teach certain people to be more respectful towards each other. I usually pity people who feel the need to seem smart and better than others because most of them have problems with themselves. As I said before people who need to put others down are not healthy. And since some people think I have no idea what I am talking about because they love to call me out on my bullshit: it is exactly what psychology professors said as well: the more people feel the need to act as if they are better than others and need to show off, the more they are often (not always) deeply insecure.

That I agree with you - this forum is not healthy, hasn't been in many years and I don't think it'll change till it completely fades into oblivion.
And I partly blame BJ for that.

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Yes and yes. I think when something people root for becomes worse people become too.

This is a very tame forum, the amount of members has dwindled down to a core few. While it can get heated, it is mostly kept civilized (there are no complete outbursts of insults with no point to them). If you feel Umbrage here, you must live in an online bubble, because this place is nothing compared to social media or Reddit (as examples).

I don't think anyone who said you were talking nonesense did so without explaining why. You didn't like how you was talked to and seem to think a lot of it was empty rhetoric aimed at antagonizing you. Fair enough, opinions will vary on whether you're right or wrong.

What I don't get is why you felt the need to create a thread (this very thread)? If we all create threads when someone says something we don't like or when someone disagrees with our point of view, it would be unworkable. Seb and Evline have been going at it in this thread, should they now create an individual thread each to voice their opinion on their argument?

Also, if your intention is to leave then why tell us? Obviously the need for attention was in play otherwise you just leave.

Having said all that, you absolutley shouldn't leave. If you like Bon Jovi, this is arguably the best place to be because it is one of the few places that is challenging when discussing the band.

By the way, when discussing the narcissim, I did not say your opinion is not welcome. It absolutley is and you should continue with it. What I did say was it was demonstrably invalid and not based in fact.

I didn’t read a lot of that thread to be honest, but it’s quite clear (from the outside) that Jon has strong narcissistic traits, just like Richie is a perfect example of an empath. The balance they once had broke and Richie left. Pretty simple.