Richie and the songwriting
 

Okay, so I just watched the toe curling interview with Richie and "Ori" from Sound wave and was interested in what he said about the Bon Jovi songs.


Basically he says those are his songs, or songs he started the ball rolling on so to speak. Does that mean he is saying he wrote These Days or Who Says for example, or is he saying he had the genesis of those songs? I would be interested if anyone actually knows. Who Says for example comes across very JBJ for example.

Either way, that interview was painful because he is such a douche and I feel it was a cheap shot, although it is not as if Jon hasn´t been saying the same crap for years with his quarterback nonsense.

I think These Days started with richie messing around with those sus chords. In terms of melody I've always thought of These Days as a very JBJ song for the time it was written, but maybe that's just me. Either way, He's an asshole during that interview and it really hasn't taken much for him to believe and exaggerate his own hype.....

Exactly what "hits" did Richie write with Alice Cooper? He seems so full of himself it's only coming across like a joke. I enjoy Richies new found confidence, but he's going a bit far here.

Officially - only Hell Is Living Without You [which wasn't even a single but is a famous Alice song]. Unofficially - House of Fire?

He also talks about touring together and I'm WTF? Did they ever play together before this gig recently? I don't think so...Either his mind is blurry - which could well be - or he's talking out of his ass. Alice Cooper mentioned in some interview that he went and saw Bon Jovi play Jersey bars and realised they're not just a pop band but the real deal - but never anything about proper gigging together.

House of Fire always struck me as odd. The band demoed it for New Jersey but when it wound up on Alice's album none of them are credited as co-writers.

For as much as one would think Who Says is a Jon song, listen to it back to back with Hard times come easy. It's not crazy to think it's a Richie song. That being said I don't agree with his stance that he's only doing the songs he started.

It's just another example of an artist bigging themselves up/telling a few white lies. We all have done it, whether it be in job interviews or on a CV, but yeah some of the shit Richie and Jon come up with is hilarious, like they are trying to convince themselves.

Richie will be saying he sold out stadiums next on his Aftermath Tour in Europe. Little things like if he's met or jammed once with Stevie Wonder or Jimmy page turn into ''yeahhh, we go wayyy back maaaan, always jamming and doing stuff togetherrr mann''
etc.

I still remember Jon saying on that Radio2 interview on the HAND tour that he had 'heard some nickelback stuff'' and ''wanted to give them a shot as opening act'' - little did he know they were currently outselling his own band ten fold worldwide. They do live in their own little bubbles sometimes.

Since that started out as a Joan Jett song, I wonder why Richie would've been involved. Desmond Child wrote a couple of tunes with her during 1988 as well, the most famous probably being I Hate Myself For Loving You.

Regarding the songwriting, you can sorta tell with some songs. Jon's not a bad guitar player as far as riffs go (he wrote a couple catchy ones for 7800°), but the sus-chords for These Days, as well as I'll Be There For You's licks just scream Richie. I guess it's safe to say that he wrote those. Same actually goes for We Weren't Born To Follow, those hanging chords somehow seem Samboralike to me. Generally, Jon is more a melody-type of guy in his writing, whereas Richie is more about textures.

There's also stuff like Damned which is pretty damn obvious IMO (Jon couldn't play the riff at all, for one), but I have no idea regarding stuff like the piano ballads, since they're usually rather reduced in terms of harmony.

There's also stuff where you can tell neither did much, such as the Desmond Child-tracks from the 80s, or It's My Life.

Either way, these guys should just adapt the Jagger/Richards model already, where both get credited all the time either way who wrote it.

It's a good question. Had it landed on New Jersey it would have certainly been credited Jovi/ Sambora/ Child. So, naturally - there are theories that it was a Bon Jovi song. Yet - if Desmond Child and Joan Jett are credited, surely Jon & Richie would have wanted their share of royalties had they done something with/ to it....

Good topic and points...

I always though Who Says was a cross between Rockin All Over the World and I Don't Wanna Go Home so I pegged it as a Jon song aka SSJ.

House Of Fire is difficult to pin point for me because I could easily mix up a Desmond / Jon and Richie song.. esp 80s lyrics.

Oh yeah, I am not talking about guitar parts, I am pretty sure Richie wrote the majority of those. I consider songwriting more from a lyrical standpoint and I am sure that´s what Richie was alluding to in the interview.

I heard it like he was saying he wrote the lyrics to those songs, or at least had the core of lyrical content for those. I am not a believer, but as I said, Jon is equally as guilty of this kind of bullshit. I mean if you listen to the two of them, and Desmond, they all wrote the majority of Prayer?

I may as well throw my hat into the ring. I wrote Livin on a Prayer, well the majority of it at least.

I remember an interview with Jon hitting Max Martin in credit of Its my Life. He said was credited simply because Max was in the same room when they (Jon and Richie) wrote the song. Suggesting That did absolutely nothing or very little.

I think Max Martin was important in this song, and Jon's pride as a songwriter was questioned. So hit the man.

Now, Richie hits Jon for the same reason, I suppose. Jon has always been a cocky and selfish, many promos of albums, he saying my record, my single, me, me, me... Both behave the same way.

I've always loved that quote. A song writer like Max Martin who gets paid tons of money for his time, baloney he was just in the room.

Richie comes across as either incredibly full of himself or completely lacking self esteem. He massively inflates his contributions and greatness with things like writing HITS for Alice Cooper. I don't believe Hell is Living Without You was even released as a single, much less was it a HIT single. I listened to the Top 40 every week back then. Had it been charting, I would have noticed since Jon and Richie wrote it.

I'm not talking about guitar parts either... but the rhythm and harmonic basis of a song determines which vocal lines are gonna fit.

That being said, I doubt he ever wrote a Jovi lyric alone. He can't even do that on his solo albums, safe for 3 tracks on Stranger (none of which have great lyrics).

About the Alice Cooper scenario: THREE other guys (Jon, Desmond, Mr Cooper himself) were also credited for that track!

Which just proves a bit of a point. Alice had hardly anything to do with the songwriting on Trash, yet he's credited for every single song. That was basically an all star project to revive Alice. He might have added a lyric here and there, but those songs just scream Desmond Child/ Aerosmith/ Bon Jovi...

Anyhow - song credits here or there, doesn't really matter. The fact that Richie came up with the concept for Prayer while throwing up driving to Desmond's house in New York is a story that he described in a super old interview. The 3 of them took it from there. Then Wanted is an obvious Richie song, no question asked. I'll Be There for You - same stuff. No one questions that one.

The more interesting ones are These Days and Who Says .... both were more Jon songs in my book. I guess I might be wrong. I mean - it's one thing inflating interviews. It's a different thing lying to yourself. He could play Dry County for that matter - yet he doesn't.

they played together here:
http://www.lastfm.de/event/3347903+T...Festival+%2789

Desmond Child was heavily involved with Alice's writing on the entire album Trash. He was also the one who produced it. Obie was the Engineer and worked on the album in Jon's home studio. Jon and Richie are songwriters for Hell Is Living Without You. Jon also wrote the Ballad Of Alice Cooper which was an unreleased demo (Jon did a live version of it for a radio station). Jon is on backing vocals and Richie is on guitar for a few other songs too (Richie could be referring to guitar writing credits too).

Although Desmond is credited as the main songwriter, I have a feeling that some of those songs were recycled from New Jersey (and other artists albums that he worked with like Aerosmith). (The second single off the album is "Bed Of Nails" although an unrelated coincidence)

Like I stated earlier, it's difficult to read the lyrics and pick them apart as to what was Desmond's and / or Jon & Richie's but considering how stacked New Jersey was, I seriously doubt Bon Jovi would demo songs written by other artists. They must have had their pens involved with House Of Fire somehow during that period. I would love for someone to ask Jon or Richie that question. You'd probably get a more honest and direct answer from Richie. Edit: Jon could have demoed it for Alice as a favor to Desmond. Maybe he helped him work out an arangement or something like that. We all assume it was for NJ but it could have really been for Trash all along.

Anyway, I think this was basically a little Desmond project that Jon and Richie had a lot of small bits of feedback to contribute but Desmond basically got all the writing credits.

"Poison" was the only real hit off the album but I guess any single released that charts in the billboard top 100 could be considered a hit.

Can't someone lift the vocals from Alice's version of house of fire and add Jon's? Someone did it to an Elvis home recording of Dark Moon. It came out great

Since there is only an absolute crappy version with Jon's vocals I don't think it would come out any good. Haven't listened to the old NJ demo in about a lifetime but I think it's almost impossible to knock this one down to Jon's voice only. Getting Alice's vocals out of the other one might be doable if they're centre-mixed.

House of Fire credited as Alice, Joan Jett and Desmond Child. Not Child only.
Richie is only credited to play guitar on Hell is Living Without You. Even there - I think he shares credits with Steve Lukather.

I really think "Ballad of Alice Cooper" is a joke. It's just something Jon threw together in a radio interview, he even laughs when playing it. Just Alice Cooper song titles and a reference to a movie/song Alice Doesn't Live Here Any More. It's not even a song, it was just named by some fan.

Does anyone have the full broadcast? I'm sure it would shed some light on this.

You don't get credits for writing guitar parts.

Desmond is more than capable of writing by himself, and he writes better songs than Jon or Richie. Why would he NOT credit Jon or Richie if they'd written anything?

Why not? It's not the first time Jon has taken someone else's song and added his own name to it.

This a LOT more likely scenario.

Bed Of Nails was #20 on Billboard Top 100, I'd call that a hit. And House Of Fire and Only My Heart Talking charted as well.

Ice

All good points. I was more or less trying to brain storm ideas as to why Richie would say what he said. I do think Jon and Richie had more input than what was credited on the album though.

One thing I completely disagree with though is saying that the Ballad Of Alice Copper (Alice's Doesn't Live Here Anymore) was a joke. It's a joke the way Jon is singing it in Alice's voice but these guys don't write anything as a joke. There are actually some really great lyrics that make up that one verse and then Jon tells the DJ "the song goes on like that". I think the little chuckle between them is a combination of Jon's Alice voice and the DJ giving Jon props on the writing (like he's amazed on how good it was)

Yes, the song isn't named and some fan made it up, but whatever the actual name is, it was a completed song written for or about Alice, hence the voice Jon sings it in. Considering the time, I'd bet it was for Alice's album and if someone had the completed interview, there was probably a question to Jon about it. Which could actually shed some more light about it. Like I stated earlier, I think Jon and Richie were a lot more involved with Alice's record then noted on the album. This was also when Jon was playing talent scout and trying to be a record executive.

Another awesome choice to include on the New Box Set by the way. Hear Jon's version below....

Yup - that's correct. There's an interview with Alice Cooper where he mentions the song and says that Jon wrote it for him to record to which he said 'Come on man, I can't sing a song about myself. You do it'. And ever since they meet, Alice asks him when he will finally record it.

When Jon played it on that radio show, this article with Alice had been published already.

And don't ask me why I know all this crap. Alice is my all time favourite front-man. His presence is magnificent even now. True rock god.

I've only ever seen fan quotes, nothing official anywhere. If anyone has the Rockline (the whole thing) or any not-fan-based info on the song, I'd like to see it.

Ice

I'm pretty sure I do - just gotta find it.

There you go, quote from the Alice interview:

http://www.alicecooperechive.com/art...cleList=910700

Reading that article again was a real blast from the past:

I have the full Rockline interview. I'll see if I can find it.... and if I can find a cassette player to listen to it with.

I think I have it digitally, but so far I can't find it. Still digging. I probably have a tape of it somewhere too but I'm pretty sure I have transferred all the tapes.

Yeah, I've seen that quote, but it still sounds like a joke to me. I'll reserve my judgement until I hear it from Jon or Alice, not on the web. :)

Ice

Hah - nice one :D

I think it is clear now that Richie was talking out of his ass when saying he plays Bon Jovi songs that he suggests are fundamentally his. According to Rolo´s set list he played It´s My Life last night.

To be fair, Jon was only in the room when Richie wrote that song.

My copy is too far back in my storage area for me to get to it without digging through a ton of shit. I'm not invested enough to make the effort. ;) Someday I need to learn to convert tapes to CDs because I have about 500 of them collecting dust.

Get one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transfer-Cas...-/400653296150

http://www.ionaudio.com/products/det...ith-headphones

Just plug the USB cable, press play on the deck and record on the computer.

Ice

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into getting one of these. :)