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-   -   Jon Bon Jovi and the songs he cleverly stole from others. (https://drycounty.com/jovitalk/showthread.php?t=54006)

TwinFan 06-21-2012 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic (Post 1084846)
Aloha !



Again, parts and bits, but not complete songs. Considering the millions of possibilities out there with the few notes we have chances are slim you'd write the exact same melody another artist has written before. Obviously it's possible, and if it happened once or twice in their career that's fine, but not over a dozen times.

In the end it's the same as me painting 100 pictures of which you recognize 12 from other artists. You'd not be saying "ha, that's just a co-incidence" either.

But go ahead and try before making such a bold claim. Try to find 20 songs by other artists that were nicked from songs previously released.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

We may be talking about different things. I meant that every song (or at least 99% of songs) has influences from another song or artist. Whether it was intentional or not, it happens. Sure, there may be endless possibilities for melody, but there have also been lots of songs written and recorded.

But I see your point on how Bon Jovi may have more than a few similar songs. But to be honest, I don't care. If I like the song, I like the song, and don't care if it's similar to another. I get more bothered if they totally rip off themselves (IML and its clones) than if they take influences from another artist.

Rdkopper 06-21-2012 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic (Post 1084846)
Aloha !



But go ahead and try before making such a bold claim. Try to find 20 songs by other artists that were nicked from songs previously released.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I don't want to because I don't care about this topic enough to do so. You are just creating an illusion. When they say they go to Nashville to write with other artists, I believe they do so. They are writers. Not every song on their album is 100% theirs. Some might be 10% and some might be 90%.

If Jon wrote the verse and someone wrote the chorus, so what! I really don't care and neither should anyone else.

Rdkopper 06-21-2012 06:14 PM

This topic basically contradicts your other one because here you are stating that they steal songs and the other one you are saying that they don't write them so in essence....... The person writing their songs are stealing them....

Look, Bon Jovi would not be around for 30 years if they were stealing from other artists... And even if they blatantly stole a guitar riff, Jon still wrote the lyrics, with a catch chorus and melody.

When Jon and Richie get together to write a new album, I believe they do so. What ends up on the final album might will not be 100% theirs but that how I believe it all starts.... Jon and Richie (and maybe some friends later on)

Twist it as much as you'd like but I'm not buying either topic. Not without hard facts

crashed 06-21-2012 07:11 PM

Their are definitely times Jon/Richie have taken a strong influence from another song and made almost their own version of it.

Joey is the perfect example. Jon loves Elton John's Levon and clearly he wanted to try and create something similar himself.

Is their anything sinister about this or any insinuation that Jon or Richie can't write their own songs or don't have their own ideas? Of course not and anyone who suggests it is a bloody idiot.

Jon/Richie have more songwriting credits than a thousand other artists. Their songs have appeared on a dozen other artists records. And for all their songs that sound somewhat similar to others...it ALWAYS sounds like a Bon Jovi song.

Aside from that their true masterpieces of song craft, the Dry County and These Days and Keep The Faith, and lets not forget Livin On A Prayer.

I kinda don't see the point in this and the other thread.

gabriele 06-21-2012 09:55 PM

Only lonely = Notte Rosa by Umberto Tozzi

Supersonic 06-22-2012 12:08 AM

Aloha !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1084851)
I don't want to because I don't care about this topic enough to do so. You are just creating an illusion. When they say they go to Nashville to write with other artists, I believe they do so. They are writers. Not every song on their album is 100% theirs. Some might be 10% and some might be 90%.

If Jon wrote the verse and someone wrote the chorus, so what! I really don't care and neither should anyone else.

I'll bet you 100 dollars you can't make a list of 20 songs of any other artist similar like the one I made for Bon Jovi. You just said you can do it with any artist, but now you don't want to back up your statements "because you don't care enough to do so." You can't.

I'm not implying Bon Jovi doesn't go to Nashville to write with others, I'm not saying the songs they co-wrote with others have been solely written by the co-writers either. However, the songs listed so far are very obvious examples of where Bon Jovi got their inspiration from. It wouldn't be such a bad thing either if they'd just take parts of songs ythey'd like and put them in their own songs. However, if you need to completely steal a chord pattern from start to finish in order to get your point across then what's the point of writing the song anyway? You might as well cover the original.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1084855)
This topic basically contradicts your other one because here you are stating that they steal songs and the other one you are saying that they don't write them so in essence....... The person writing their songs are stealing them....

You're making stuff up now, it's as if you can't separate one thing from the other. Some songs have been written by others completely, and then there's songs they wrote while pretty much nicking the melody from another song. It's not rocket science now is it? If the whole concept is to difficult to understand don't get involved in the discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1084855)
Look, Bon Jovi would not be around for 30 years if they were stealing from other artists... And even if they blatantly stole a guitar riff, Jon still wrote the lyrics, with a catch chorus and melody.

When Jon and Richie get together to write a new album, I believe they do so. What ends up on the final album might will not be 100% theirs but that how I believe it all starts.... Jon and Richie (and maybe some friends later on)

Twist it as much as you'd like but I'm not buying either topic. Not without hard facts

No one is saying they're not writing things themselves. However, if you want hard facts, they're pretty much presented in this topic. If you don't hear the similarities in the songs that's pretty much your incapability. It doesn't mean that the facts aren't true. Anyone can hear Capt. Crash is a direct rip off from Stay Young, up to the point where Jon's put the word Invincible. Stay Young was released in 1997. Capt. Crash was released in 2000. What's not to understand here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashed (Post 1084857)
Their are definitely times Jon/Richie have taken a strong influence from another song and made almost their own version of it.

Joey is the perfect example. Jon loves Elton John's Levon and clearly he wanted to try and create something similar himself.

Yeah, but again, what's the point? It's like re-inventing the wheel. Why try to write a song that's already been written and then claim it's completely your own? In the end it's just a rip off, whether you like it or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashed (Post 1084857)
Jon/Richie have more songwriting credits than a thousand other artists. Their songs have appeared on a dozen other artists records. And for all their songs that sound somewhat similar to others...it ALWAYS sounds like a Bon Jovi song.

Aside from that their true masterpieces of song craft, the Dry County and These Days and Keep The Faith, and lets not forget Livin On A Prayer.

I kinda don't see the point in this and the other thread.

The thing is, you're pointing out that Faith and Prayer have been written by the band while both songs have a very strong hand of Desmond in it. I'm not saying they've never written a song by themselves, but considering how the rumors of them having ghost writers having been around ever since Slippery it should make you wonder what actually does come from their hand. Simply accepting that These Days was solely written by Jon simply because he wrote Dry County as well is living in denial of everything that's offered to you. Everything sounding like Bon Jovi isn's that true either, the songs have radically changed since Crush, which happens to be when more and more co-writers got involved as well. Bon Jovi sounding like Bon Jovi has more to do with the producers and the sound of the band than with the songs itself. However, if Bon Jovi are capable of covering any song and make it sound like one of their own, how difficult would it be for them to do the same with songs they nick of others? Their rendition of I Won't Back Down sounded like a Bon Jovi song to me, and so does Thief Of Hearts. Is that a co-incidence as well?

Considering the replies on here it almost seems that people are incapable of discussing this, feeling attacked by someone who's questioning the sincerety of their heroes and the songs they've written. It seems like it doesn't matter how much proof you (not you crashed, but you as in the people who doubt the entire story in general) get, you've made up your mind that Jon and Richie start the songs and then add a co-writer, which just isn't true. Just because that's what Jon wants you to believe doesn't mean that it's true.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Rdkopper 06-22-2012 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic (Post 1084873)
Aloha !



I'll bet you 100 dollars you can't make a list of 20 songs of any other artist similar like the one I made for Bon Jovi. You just said you can do it with any artist, but now you don't want to back up your statements "because you don't care enough to do so." You can't.

I'm not implying Bon Jovi doesn't go to Nashville to write with others, I'm not saying the songs they co-wrote with others have been solely written by the co-writers either. However, the songs listed so far are very obvious examples of where Bon Jovi got their inspiration from. It wouldn't be such a bad thing either if they'd just take parts of songs ythey'd like and put them in their own songs. However, if you need to completely steal a chord pattern from start to finish in order to get your point across then what's the point of writing the song anyway? You might as well cover the original.



You're making stuff up now, it's as if you can't separate one thing from the other. Some songs have been written by others completely, and then there's songs they wrote while pretty much nicking the melody from another song. It's not rocket science now is it? If the whole concept is to difficult to understand don't get involved in the discussion.



No one is saying they're not writing things themselves. However, if you want hard facts, they're pretty much presented in this topic. If you don't hear the similarities in the songs that's pretty much your incapability. It doesn't mean that the facts aren't true. Anyone can hear Capt. Crash is a direct rip off from Stay Young, up to the point where Jon's put the word Invincible. Stay Young was released in 1997. Capt. Crash was released in 2000. What's not to understand here?



Yeah, but again, what's the point? It's like re-inventing the wheel. Why try to write a song that's already been written and then claim it's completely your own? In the end it's just a rip off, whether you like it or not.



The thing is, you're pointing out that Faith and Prayer have been written by the band while both songs have a very strong hand of Desmond in it. I'm not saying they've never written a song by themselves, but considering how the rumors of them having ghost writers having been around ever since Slippery it should make you wonder what actually does come from their hand. Simply accepting that These Days was solely written by Jon simply because he wrote Dry County as well is living in denial of everything that's offered to you. Everything sounding like Bon Jovi isn's that true either, the songs have radically changed since Crush, which happens to be when more and more co-writers got involved as well. Bon Jovi sounding like Bon Jovi has more to do with the producers and the sound of the band than with the songs itself. However, if Bon Jovi are capable of covering any song and make it sound like one of their own, how difficult would it be for them to do the same with songs they nick of others? Their rendition of I Won't Back Down sounded like a Bon Jovi song to me, and so does Thief Of Hearts. Is that a co-incidence as well?

Considering the replies on here it almost seems that people are incapable of discussing this, feeling attacked by someone who's questioning the sincerety of their heroes and the songs they've written. It seems like it doesn't matter how much proof you (not you crashed, but you as in the people who doubt the entire story in general) get, you've made up your mind that Jon and Richie start the songs and then add a co-writer, which just isn't true. Just because that's what Jon wants you to believe doesn't mean that it's true.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I don't know how it was in the UK but during the mid to late 90's there was a trend out called "sampling". P Diddy made a career out of it so IMO, that is blatantly steeling.... Jon stealing Joey from Levon is not obvious. They both share a story about a specific individual but that's it as far as my ears go. They sound nothing alike. Bon Jovi has written over 300 songs. Bon Jovi has influences. When Jon wrote Dyin Ain't Much Of A Living" he said he had Elton in mind and then was lucky enough to get him to sing on the song. He's not stealing anything.

There are Influences, Trends, and Coincidences.... But the point you're trying to make with this post is, Jon has no originality. Regardless if you're a Jon supporter or not, Jon is not out stealing songs.

If you need a list of Bon Jovi songs that have something in common with others, look at old posts. There are 20 of them out there all with the same songs.

crashed 06-22-2012 10:41 AM

I think Joey and Levon sound VERY alike. It's the one instance I'll say where Jon has definitely copied another song...why, just because he likes it I guess.

Seb, your right...maybe it is a little like reinventing the wheel. I still don't see the problem with it. Just like any book you ever pick-up is hardly likely to be a new kind of story no-ones ever read...just a new take on it or a different feel and writing style.

I get what your saying about Desmond but in many ways, he's been so much a part of Jovi since Slippery that he's almost the invisible band member. We all know Jovi may not have had massive hits without him. But oddly, most of my favourite Jovi songs are the ones credited to Jon or Richie alone.

I certainly don't think for example anyone else but Jon had any input into Dry County or Bed Of Roses came from anyone but Jon. It just sounds too honest, as does most of the songwriting on These Days.

The problem really is what we've discussed before, since 2000 they've been chasing the hits and using any style and influence to get there. But you all know I loved The Circle...so the point is I enjoy it no matter who wrote most of the songs on it.

Remember some of the most classic songs of all-time were never written by the artists that made them famous, but by a building full of songwriters in New York or somewhere.

I don't think it makes it any less genuine because of that.

Jovi are my heroes, but I know this band for what it is. Sometimes it's not pretty, their are very mafia-like shady dealings in all sort of corners not just with songwriting and Jon changes his story as much as his haircuts.

None of it matters. Being in a stadium full of Bon Jovi fans singing Livin' On A Prayer is the single, most joyful experience I have every few years. That's why I'm a believer and always will be.

kleman 06-22-2012 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashed (Post 1084889)
I think Joey and Levon sound VERY alike. It's the one instance I'll say where Jon has definitely copied another song...why, just because he likes it I guess.

Seb, your right...maybe it is a little like reinventing the wheel. I still don't see the problem with it. Just like any book you ever pick-up is hardly likely to be a new kind of story no-ones ever read...just a new take on it or a different feel and writing style.

I get what your saying about Desmond but in many ways, he's been so much a part of Jovi since Slippery that he's almost the invisible band member. We all know Jovi may not have had massive hits without him. But oddly, most of my favourite Jovi songs are the ones credited to Jon or Richie alone.

I certainly don't think for example anyone else but Jon had any input into Dry County or Bed Of Roses came from anyone but Jon. It just sounds too honest, as does most of the songwriting on These Days.

The problem really is what we've discussed before, since 2000 they've been chasing the hits and using any style and influence to get there. But you all know I loved The Circle...so the point is I enjoy it no matter who wrote most of the songs on it.

Remember some of the most classic songs of all-time were never written by the artists that made them famous, but by a building full of songwriters in New York or somewhere.

I don't think it makes it any less genuine because of that.

Jovi are my heroes, but I know this band for what it is. Sometimes it's not pretty, their are very mafia-like shady dealings in all sort of corners not just with songwriting and Jon changes his story as much as his haircuts.

None of it matters. Being in a stadium full of Bon Jovi fans singing Livin' On A Prayer is the single, most joyful experience I have every few years. That's why I'm a believer and always will be.

Well writen, I 100% agree, specialy with last quote!

DevilsSon 06-22-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashed (Post 1084889)
I certainly don't think for example anyone else but Jon had any input into Dry County or Bed Of Roses came from anyone but Jon. It just sounds too honest, as does most of the songwriting on These Days.

I still can't believe Richie doesn't get any credit for Dry County. It's outrageous. When Jon came in the studio with it, it was a 4 minute song. Richie wanted it an EPIC. While Jon will have probably come up with the lyrics and most of the melody, I am sure there are songs in the Jovi catalogue for which Richie got credit for way less than he's done on Dry County. Just ridiculous.

Guns N' Roses used to split credits between all band members, all getting 20%, maybe Axl getting slightly more. Even the drummers would get credit. There is NO ****IN' WAY Jon Bon Bon should be the only one credited for Dry County. It's still beyond my imagination really. There must be a weird deal struck there (My hypothesis, lots of cash went into Richie's bank account to leave Jon all the merits of that).


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