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Michael's interview with Andrew Denton
Sources: ABC Online, R.E.M.hq

Michael Stipe was a guest on Australian TV show Enough Rope with Andrew Denton on April 4th. Below you'll find the transcript from Michael's interview. R.E.M.hq reported that a video stream of the interview will be available soon on ABC's website

ANDREW DENTON: It's fantastic to have you here.

MICHAEL STIPE: Thank you.

ANDREW DENTON: I thought we would kick off with a look at you on stage on your current world tour. This is you with your current single, Electron Blue.

(VIDEO INSERT)

ANDREW DENTON: The stripe is a great look. What's that about; is this a quiet cross-promotion for The Incredibles?

MICHAEL STIPE: Actually, no, I had the stripe idea before their movie came out. They kind of stole it from me, I believe. I think when people go to see a show they don't really want to see the same person they might see walking down the street. It's a little bit of theatre.

ANDREW DENTON: You said that as a kid you were perceptive to a point that other kids weren't. This is talking about the way you see the world; do you remember that?

MICHAEL STIPE: I said that to you?

ANDREW DENTON: You did say that to me in the past, yes.

MICHAEL STIPE: No.

ANDREW DENTON: In what way?

MICHAEL STIPE: Emotionally I think more than anything. I had an incredibly happy childhood. But whenever something was going on in the world, certainly within my family and the adults were all a little bit frantic, I seemed to be the one that broke away from the sandpit and would walk over and tug on someone's shirt and say, "What's happening?"

ANDREW DENTON: Your dad was in the air force and you travelled around a lot with your family.

MICHAEL STIPE: The army.

ANDREW DENTON: Army, sorry. You spent a couple of years when you were fairly young in Germany, as a kid. You said that you can remember every day of that time. What was so pungent about that experience.

MICHAEL STIPE: That was a slight exaggeration for a journalist. It was a period of my life, there was somebody about being picked up out of what I knew, which was basically the south at that point, we kind of travelled around the southern states of the United States, and moving to this faraway place across the ocean. I remember being on the plane and throwing up and my mum telling my dad that I was going to throw up, and him saying, "Maryanne, stop saying that because he is going to do it." And of course I did. I used to vomit a lot actually when we travelled. Now that I think about it, we had a signal where I would say "stop" in the car, and they learned to stop immediately.

ANDREW DENTON: There was a certain tone to it, was there?

MICHAEL STIPE: Yes, I would open the door and vomit and we would be on our way.

ANDREW DENTON: Isn't it great that for a living now you travel the world week after week?

MICHAEL STIPE: I haven't thrown up in a long time. How did we get off on this?

ANDREW DENTON: Germany.

MICHAEL STIPE: Germany -- I don't know why there. I was seven years old when we moved there. We were there for a year and a half. It just resonates to this day.

ANDREW DENTON: Your dad was a chopper pilot in Vietnam.

MICHAEL STIPE: And Korea, yes.

ANDREW DENTON: Your mum would say, "Look for him on the evening news." Is that what you did?

MICHAEL STIPE: I think it was her way of trying to connect three very young children to why our father was out there and what he was doing, and it worked. In the late sixties, the Flintstones cartoon was a prime-time television show. We would sit down with our french fries and hamburgers and be watching the Flintstones. They would interrupt it for live footage from Vietnam. My mother would say, "Now watch for your father." We would of course sit there and go, "I think I saw him" over and over again. At that time, transcontinental phone calls were not possible, certainly from Vietnam. The letters that he would write and pictures that he would send were coming from this very faraway place. The globe meant nothing to a five year old.

ANDREW DENTON: You spent every Christmas with your family; is that right? As many as you can...

MICHAEL STIPE: Every single one, yes.

ANDREW DENTON: What's a Stipe family Christmas like?

MICHAEL STIPE: I'm a little bit of a sap, which shows in the work and my contribution to what we do as a band.

ANDREW DENTON: What do you mean by "sap".

MICHAEL STIPE: You know, I'm sentimental. I tread that line carefully, I think, as a lyricist and as an artist I try to -- in being a man in the late 20th century and now the 21st century, showing insecurity and showing sentimentality and showing vulnerability particularly is not something that people are that used to. Anyway, back to Christmas. We do all of the Christmas things. We sit around, we have a big dinner, we trim the tree, and my parents go to a sunrise service, we open presents.

ANDREW DENTON: Is it a big present family? Isn't it true? This may have been another thing you exaggerated to a journalist, but is it true that you can remember every present you got since your were six or seven?

MICHAEL STIPE: No. There are a lot of misquotes in music journalism, more so than even in the American news media, which is hard to imagine. In certain parts of the world but certainly in the UK they tend to take one little thing and turn it into an entire story. I notice actually that the Australian gossip magazines are very, very good.

ANDREW DENTON: As in good at getting it wrong or getting it right?

MICHAEL STIPE: No. I was reading one on the plane on my way here today. It's all about celebrity fatties. Actually one of the celebrity fatties is the one who told me that the Australian gossip mags here are really awesome. It was Courtney Love, who is doing great, I'm happy to say. But she is one of the celebrity fatties. She has put on a little bit of weight now that she is clean and sober, which is awesome. All of the other people are really thin and they just caught them at a bad angle, but they built an entire story around it, which is kind of interesting. I wonder how many people really believe that stuff.

ANDREW DENTON: What does Courtney Love think if she finds herself in a magazine as a celebrity fatty?

MICHAEL STIPE: She loves it.

ANDREW DENTON: I want to take you back. Can we bring in the time-travelling table?

MICHAEL STIPE: Oh, dear.

ANDREW DENTON: Relax, its perfectly all right.

MICHAEL STIPE: I wondered what that thing was, a little piece of modern sculpture from Melbourne or something.

ANDREW DENTON: Something Christo left me, I'm quite proud of it. I want to take you back to when you were 15.

MICHAEL STIPE: Dear God. Are these real?

ANDREW DENTON: They are not, sadly, they are out of season in Australia. A night where you got intimate with two kilos of cherries, Patti Smith's Album 'Horse', and possibly a lava lump.

MICHAEL STIPE: Not a lava lamp, no.

ANDREW DENTON: That night when you were 15 when you sat up with the cherries and Patti Smith, can you talk us through?

MICHAEL STIPE: No talk show has ever gone to such great lengths to bring back a memory. This record came out in 1975. I was 15 years old. My knowledge of music was fairly limited to what my parents listened to and what I heard on the radio, which was pretty eclectic at the time. But I liked Benny and the Jets and Elton John, and Rock On by David Essex. And that's about it, until this record. I found out about this record through a newspaper that I got a subscription to by accident from New York city called the Village Voice. They were talking about this nascent singing at a club there that they were calling punk rock. And Patti Smith was a huge part of it. She was the first of those people to release an album and I bought it the day that it came out. I sat up all night listening to it, ate an entire bowl of cherries, threw up. There is a lot of vomit in this. I really don't throw up often, I just want to clarify that. I decided that morning that I was going to dedicate my life to being in a band. I don't know, it was a very naive decision to make that I was going to dedicate my life to being in a band. I didn't even know that I could sing at that point. But I could.

ANDREW DENTON: It didn't come as a surprise to those around you. This was your photo from your high school graduation book.

MICHAEL STIPE: They airbrushed my face. I had the worst acne, as you might be able to see from the cameras.

ANDREW DENTON: Is that right?

MICHAEL STIPE: Yes.

ANDREW DENTON: Underneath, your classmates listed you as future rock star. Was their image of what a rock star was the same as yours?

MICHAEL STIPE: No. I will say this, and this is probably a little too brutally honest for television, but I have never thought of myself as a very cool person. I think a lot of people that wind up being public figures, there might be some degree of insecurity that leads you to desire that kind of attention. I consider myself to still be kind of a nerd and not particularly talented, attractive, interesting, intelligent or anything else. I used to wonder why my friends hung out with me. Then, you know, of course a little bit later in life I figured out that I do have qualities that are worth while. The degree to which I apply myself as an artist, as a song writer, is at the very least absolutely sincere and giving everything that I can. And that counts for something.

ANDREW DENTON: It counts for a lot. Let's talk about you as a songwriter. Even those who don't know your music probably know this. This is REM's best known song, though I am sure many would dispute not necessarily their best, Losing My Religion.

(VIDEO INSERT)

ANDREW DENTON: That was the early hair period.

MICHAEL STIPE: That's me with hair.

ANDREW DENTON: That's you in the corner with hair. The black art of songwriting, where does a great song start? Is it in the heart, the mind, the fingers, where?

MICHAEL STIPE: There are a lot of songs in our extensive catalogue that I wish I had not tried so hard to finish writing. The ones that I most love are the ones that came from somewhere else. There is nothing spiritual or higher or holier than thou about that. It's really kind of maybe a stream of consciousness, God knows. Anyway, the best songs, like that one, Losing my Religion, I honestly have no idea where it came from.

ANDREW DENTON: Do you sometimes look at your lyrics after you have written them and think, "What the hell does this mean?"

MICHAEL STIPE: Yes. It's okay for them to be nonsensical. You tell me what Bob Dylan is singing about. I don't know. Some of the best songs in the world don't make any linear sense whatsoever. Perhaps the best songs don't. So it doesn't have to have a narrative or follow a train of thought that makes any sense at all. It just has to be good and make you feel something when you hear it.

ANDREW DENTON: Interestingly, on your new album the song I Wanted to be Wrong probably has the most direct lyrics you have written, talking about the state of the US post 9-11, "Everybody is humming a song I don't understand". Last October, you, Springsteen, Pearl Jam and the Dixie Chicks went on the Vote for Change Tour to nine states, 28 cities, I think it was. What were you hoping to achieve?

MICHAEL STIPE: Well, we wanted George W Bush the **** out of the White House and we wanted John Kerry in. And it didn't work.

ANDREW DENTON: The other night in your concert -- and you have been doing this around Australia -- you dedicated the song Strange Currencies to Michael Hutchence.

MICHAEL STIPE: I did.

ANDREW DENTON: I know that when talking about two of your closest friends, now gone, Kurt Cobain and River Phoenix --

MICHAEL STIPE: Great friends.

ANDREW DENTON: Great friends; that's right. You said that what was at the heart of all of you was your vulnerabilities. I'm curious how it is you have survived your vulnerabilities when they didn't.

MICHAEL STIPE: I'm very lucky, I guess. I honestly don't know how to answer that. I've never thought about it in that way.

ANDREW DENTON: You did once say that if your first album had sold five million you wouldn't be alive today.

MICHAEL STIPE: He was under immense pressure, that guy. He had a lot of physical problems and he was a drug addict. I kind of maintain, and this is my stupid theory, who knows, that people that -- I don't even want to say it on TV, to tell you the truth. You know what, I will do a leaner version of it, which is that as a performer, whether you are a Chinese acrobat or a sports figure, a basketball player, rugby player, or certainly if you are an actor, singer, musician, the amount of adrenaline coursing through your body is unbelievable. It's the most powerful drug that I have ever taken. I did a lot of experimenting when I was very young. I think that people that have that kind of adrenaline as a part of their life maybe are just looking for a balance, and that balance might be in drugs or alcohol. It's self-medicating. Sometimes it's a slippery slope.

ANDREW DENTON: Rather than asking you to comment on Kurt or River, I'm interested in what made you strong, because other people, Tom York from Radiohead, have turned to you, "How do I deal with this?"

MICHAEL STIPE: I've been trying to dispel this idea that people come to me. I am offering them advice all the time, and I try to be really careful about that, because I don't know anything. I really don't. It is really that what we do is a very particular thing, as is what you do. What you do is incredibly specific. There might be a hundred television talkshow hosts around the world. If you met another one over drinks what would you discuss, what would you talk about?

ANDREW DENTON: I would just kill them. If you are talking about what you do, then you talk about how you talk to people, how you open them up. "Does my hair look all right?"

MICHAEL STIPE: Your hair looks great.

ANDREW DENTON: Sorry, I shouldn't mention the hair.

MICHAEL STIPE: Years of therapy later I'm fine with it. Anyway, it's really like people that have this very peculiar job coming together and talking. In that talking I might have experienced something that Tom York hasn't experienced, or I might have gone through a period of self-doubt or searching that he has just come up on for the first time. Knowing that that conversation is possible might ease the way a little bit or at the very least knowing that you are not the only person going through that.

ANDREW DENTON: Tomorrow is the 25th anniversary of your first ever gig and I didn't get you anything. I am terribly sorry.

MICHAEL STIPE: You brought all this stuff.

ANDREW DENTON: You talk about the unusualness of the job you are in and the pressure that brings the adrenaline. How have you retained your friendships with the other members of your band, Peter and Mike in particular, over 25 years. That's not easy.

MICHAEL STIPE: No, it's not. At this point we love each other very deeply. There are immense amounts of respect for each other. We also know each other better probably than anyone else on this living earth. What brought us together in the first place -- and, again, I'm a little bit of a sap -- was the love of music and that's what has kept us going.

ANDREW DENTON: How have you looked after each other?

MICHAEL STIPE: We have fights all the time. We have incredible knock-down anxiety attack kind of fights. It's all the horrible stuff, but it's real. That's what makes it real, I think. We have been to 29 countries since January 1st. We sat down, myself, the drummer, two other people that I work with, at a table the other night over fish and chips and wrote down on a napkin who could get to the end of it first. We all got there. One guy forgot Latvia.

ANDREW DENTON: You will never work there again. One last thing for you. You have a book called The Book of Me, that's right?

MICHAEL STIPE: That's a little bit of an exaggeration.

ANDREW DENTON: Is it?

MICHAEL STIPE: Yes. It's an idea that hasn't quite formed yet.

ANDREW DENTON: What's the idea?

MICHAEL STIPE: Are we getting to the plane ticket thing?

ANDREW DENTON: Sure. You collect boarding passes.

MICHAEL STIPE: I collect boarding passes, sugar packets. Look, I can't believe it. There it is.

ANDREW DENTON: This is the list of all the places you have been to? You have got 27.

MICHAEL STIPE: I got 27 out of 29.

ANDREW DENTON: That's not bad. You have crossed out Latvia.

MICHAEL STIPE: No, I didn't.

ANDREW DENTON: Angrily.

MICHAEL STIPE: I didn't get Latvia; yes, I did, it's number 11.

ANDREW DENTON: What is the idea of The Book of Me?

MICHAEL STIPE: Things like this that I will look at 10 years from now and I will go, "Good God, we had fish and chips in Melbourne." I paste stuff in books. I bought the paste, but it's in my bag. I don't really do it, I just talk about it.

ANDREW DENTON: We are going to start it. Wendy, could you bring out the special --

MICHAEL STIPE: Oh, God. Hi, Wendy.

ANDREW DENTON: Wendy, Michael; Michael Wendy.

MICHAEL STIPE: Is that a spider? What are you trying to do?

ANDREW DENTON: I figured that if you collect stuff from places you go to I would give you a choice of things from Australia.

MICHAEL STIPE: That is wrong. I'm sorry.

ANDREW DENTON: I'm sorry? I have gone to some trouble here. That's a funnel web spider. For God's sake, don't touch it.

MICHAEL STIPE: Is it deadly poisonous?

ANDREW DENTON: Yes.

MICHAEL STIPE: Is it really?

ANDREW DENTON: Yes, totally.

MICHAEL STIPE: There is probably some insurance guy quaking in his shoes right now. Are they really poisonous?

ANDREW DENTON: Yes.

MICHAEL STIPE: This really can kill me dead?

ANDREW DENTON: Eventually.

MICHAEL STIPE: Come on, let's open it. Let's throw it out there and see what happens. My God, I killed it.

ANDREW DENTON: No, you didn't. He is playing dead.

MICHAEL STIPE: I am going to put that right back where it came from.

ANDREW DENTON: He has got your scent. He is sending a message to others now; they will find you. These are Australian matches. This is a cricket protector.

MICHAEL STIPE: For which part of the anatomy?

ANDREW DENTON: What do you think?

MICHAEL STIPE: I just came from Japan. It looks like a face mask.

ANDREW DENTON: It's for there. This should be our flag, actually, it's a crushed tin of beer. So this is another futile exercise, because I thought one these would interest you.

MICHAEL STIPE: I'm pretty certain I won't get out of the country with the spider.

ANDREW DENTON: Gone, consider it gone. Would any of these suit you for The Book of Me?

MICHAEL STIPE: I think it would have to be flat, something flat. I would get the matchbox and flatten it out. I would forever remember this great afternoon/evening that we spent together and the fact that you tried to kill me with a spider.

ANDREW DENTON: I said in the introduction that you see the world differently and we love you for it. Michael Stipe.

MICHAEL STIPE: Thank you so much.