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-   -   Was Always already written in 1991? (https://drycounty.com/jovitalk/showthread.php?t=70473)

bonjovi90 12-18-2018 11:18 PM
Was Always already written in 1991?
 
Maybe this is common knowledge and I just missed the boat, but I had always assumed this song to maybe had been written somewhere in 1993 and pulled from the movie / shifted onto Cross Road in 1994.

Today I was reading the book "Bon Jovi - In Their Own Words" which basically covers different topics from 1984 to 1996 by assembling quotes from all band members. And I stumbled across this one:

Quote:
We've sorted all of our differences by now. Straightened all that shit out. In the end, Jon and I went on holiday together and just started writing. That's when we came up with 'Always'. I never thought we would actually break up [...]
Richie, November 1994
He's pretty certainly talking about the fall of 1991 when they went vacationing on St. Thomas to work it all out or at least that time frame.

Then I found this quote:
Quote:
'Always' was written by Jon for a film called Romeo's Bleeding, and that's the first line of the song. We recorded it in England during the 'Keep The Faith' tour, but then Jon looked at the movie, didn't like it and so pulled the song. But Jon (he actually may have referred to John Kalodner here) still liked the song so we went down to Nashville and re-recorded it for the album Cross Road.
Richie, June 1995
It is known that it was John Kalodner who found the shelved recording of Always and convinced the band to go back to that since they had to come up with something for the unplanned Greatest Hits album.

So some of these things make me question:
- Was Always written before the collaboration on songs for Keep The Faith actually began? With the movie having been released in 1993, the script might've been sent to Jon in 1991 since he was a sure-fire address in terms of movie songs after Blaze of Glory had hit the previous year.

- The interview doesn't clear up whether the band recorded it in May or September 1993 (by Jon's vocals I'd say the first), BUT the final version is from 1994 and the Box Set demo doesn't sound like the band's playing on it (and has female backings). So there must be another "mid-stage" version of this song in the vaults we've never heard?
To this day, I had assumed that Jon had recorded it with random musicians as sort of a side project for the movie, but actually the band must've done the final movie version.

Jovi98 12-19-2018 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1249629)
Maybe this is common knowledge and I just missed the boat, but I had always assumed this song to maybe had been written somewhere in 1993 and pulled from the movie / shifted onto Cross Road in 1994.

Today I was reading the book "Bon Jovi - In Their Own Words" which basically covers different topics from 1984 to 1996 by assembling quotes from all band members. And I stumbled across this one:



He's pretty certainly talking about the fall of 1991 when they went vacationing on St. Thomas to work it all out or at least that time frame.

Then I found this quote:


It is known that it was John Kalodner who found the shelved recording of Always and convinced the band to go back to that since they had to come up with something for the unplanned Greatest Hits album.

So some of these things make me question:
- Was Always written before the collaboration on songs for Keep The Faith actually began? With the movie having been released in 1993, the script might've been sent to Jon in 1991 since he was a sure-fire address in terms of movie songs after Blaze of Glory had hit the previous year.

- The interview doesn't clear up whether the band recorded it in May or September 1993 (by Jon's vocals I'd say the first), BUT the final version is from 1994 and the Box Set demo doesn't sound like the band's playing on it (and has female backings). So there must be another "mid-stage" version of this song in the vaults we've never heard?
To this day, I had assumed that Jon had recorded it with random musicians as sort of a side project for the movie, but actually the band must've done the final movie version.
Always "Demo" maybe it was written in 1991 and recorded in 1993.... I think

Rdkopper 12-19-2018 04:01 AM
Interesting! Although I never thought about the year it was written, I always (no pun) wondered if the song was reworked to just fit the movie.

I mean, aside from the first line, the song has NOTHING to with the movie so I definitely don't think it was written from a script like the Blaze songs were.

As great as the song is, that opening line seems a little forced and out of place but because it was for the movie Romeo Is Bleeding, I just accept it for that. "This Romeo Is Bleeding, but you can't see his blood" IMO is the weakest part of the song and doesn't really fit the next part which is Jon singing about himself.

Just like BOR, it's like another Jon confession. "Sitting here wasted and wounded" "Now I can't sing a love song, like the way it's meant to be. Well, I guess I'm not that good anymore but baby, that's just me"

Is Romeo Is Bleeding about a rock star who can't deliver a song anymore?

Strictly going off my memory but around 1993 ish, I remember sitting in my car getting ready to leave work and listening to Jon being interviewed. He said that he's got a bunch of movie songs in the works and was specific to one being in a new Tom Cruise film (of which I never figured out to this day). I do remember being disappointed that none of those songs came out because I was waiting for them.

Looking back, we got:

-Good Guys from The Cowboy Way
-Always from Romeo Is Bleeding
-Gotta Have A Reason from The Three Musketeers
-The Tom Cruise Movie (Maybe The Firm or Interview With A Vampire)
-and maybe a few others?

steel_horse75 12-19-2018 08:50 AM
Wasn’t it wrote for a film called Romeo is Bleeding but it was so bad Jon pulled the song from it.


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bonjovi90 12-19-2018 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1249642)
Interesting! Although I never thought about the year it was written, I always (no pun) wondered if the song was reworked to just fit the movie.
That's what I'm thinking too. Of course Jon wouldn't go publicly and say that he just rehashed an old song when he was asked by producers to write one for the movie. But that first line in Always has struck me by feeling out of place since the beginning. After these quotes, I think that Always really might've been some sort of left-over/unfinished idea from the KTF sessions that may simply not have been fitting / not deemed good enough for the record.
So Jon pulled it out, altered the first line to fit the movie and then said it was written for it.

Captain_jovi 12-19-2018 02:41 PM
There's a video interview with I think either David or Richie (or both) talking about how the demo was recorded in a hotel room while on tour. I'd assume that would be the KTF tour, '91 wouldn't make as much sense if that was the case, and it would put it right around '93 which fits.

bonjovi90 12-19-2018 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1249668)
There's a video interview with I think either David or Richie (or both) talking about how the demo was recorded in a hotel room while on tour. I'd assume that would be the KTF tour, '91 wouldn't make as much sense if that was the case, and it would put it right around '93 which fits.
I agree that the demo they're talking about was done on the KTF tour in the UK (as in Richie's second quote above), but I find it interesting that the original sketch for the song seems to date much further back.
And since the demo on the Box Set doesn't sound like the band in my book (and I guess was done by Jon with some random musicians beforehand) and the one for Cross Road was rerecorded in Nashville, that hotel room demo with the band is something that we haven't heard at all I think.

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Captain_jovi 12-19-2018 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1249672)
I agree that the demo they're talking about was done on the KTF tour in the UK (as in Richie's second quote above), but I find it interesting that the original sketch for the song seems to date much further back.
And since the demo on the Box Set doesn't sound like the band in my book (and I guess was done by Jon with some random musicians beforehand) and the one for Cross Road was rerecorded in Nashville, that hotel room demo with the band is something that we haven't heard at all I think.

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That solo sounds pretty Richie to me in note choice. Pino Palladino is credited as playing bass on the box set version so if there was other musicians on that track I'd assume they'd be credited too.

jazzsta 12-20-2018 09:48 AM
I agree that the band in the box set demo sounds strange. At some backing vocals I could imagine that it is Richie however. The acoustic solo is a strange choice there, and it does not sound VERY richie to me, cause richie usually has some fast playing when soloing acoustically and here it is super slow. But it could be Richie. JBJ's voice sounds even pre-KTF at some points, meaning I could even accept 1991 as the recording year for this demo. I don't know what's happening, it's strange. Could there have been also some extra instruments/layers recorded for the box set by Obie ?? I don't think so but it is a possibility also.

Captain_jovi 12-20-2018 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzsta (Post 1249688)
I agree that the band in the box set demo sounds strange. At some backing vocals I could imagine that it is Richie however. The acoustic solo is a strange choice there, and it does not sound VERY richie to me, cause richie usually has some fast playing when soloing acoustically and here it is super slow. But it could be Richie. JBJ's voice sounds even pre-KTF at some points, meaning I could even accept 1991 as the recording year for this demo. I don't know what's happening, it's strange. Could there have been also some extra instruments/layers recorded for the box set by Obie ?? I don't think so but it is a possibility also.
It's Richie on backing vocals so I assume it's him on guitar. Everything SOUNDS pretty mid-90's, I don't think anything was added.

Zakatar 12-21-2018 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1249642)

Looking back, we got:

-Good Guys from The Cowboy Way
-Always from Romeo Is Bleeding
-Gotta Have A Reason from The Three Musketeers
-The Tom Cruise Movie (Maybe The Firm or Interview With A Vampire)
-and maybe a few others?


-Blaze of Glory and Billy Get Your Guns from Young Guns ii [technically JBJ solo, but the former track has appeared on both the band's Greatest Hits albums]
-Real Life from EDtv
-The One That Got Away from Message in a Bottle [Jon decided to not give the song to the film after seeing it, much like Always and Romeo is Bleeding]
-Old Habits Die Hard and Not Running Anymore from New Year's Eve [Technically JBJ solo, but one of the songs appeared as a bonus track on WAN]
-That Peter Pan Film everyone loves to speculate about [some think Life is Beautiful from BB may be the song in question]

I actually love the Box Set demo of Always, much more so than the Cross Road version.

Jovi98 12-21-2018 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakatar (Post 1249717)
-Blaze of Glory and Billy Get Your Guns from Young Guns ii [technically JBJ solo, but the former track has appeared on both the band's Greatest Hits albums]
-Real Life from EDtv
-The One That Got Away from Message in a Bottle [Jon decided to not give the song to the film after seeing it, much like Always and Romeo is Bleeding]
-Old Habits Die Hard and Not Running Anymore from New Year's Eve [Technically JBJ solo, but one of the songs appeared as a bonus track on WAN]
-That Peter Pan Film everyone loves to speculate about [some think Life is Beautiful from BB may be the song in question]

I actually love the Box Set demo of Always, much more so than the Cross Road version.
Jon wrote a Peter Pan song if i'm not wrong but in 2001 or 2003 , so....i don't think that the song in question is Life Is Beautiful ... :)

Captain_jovi 12-21-2018 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakatar (Post 1249717)
-Blaze of Glory and Billy Get Your Guns from Young Guns ii [technically JBJ solo, but the former track has appeared on both the band's Greatest Hits albums]
-Real Life from EDtv
-The One That Got Away from Message in a Bottle [Jon decided to not give the song to the film after seeing it, much like Always and Romeo is Bleeding]
-Old Habits Die Hard and Not Running Anymore from New Year's Eve [Technically JBJ solo, but one of the songs appeared as a bonus track on WAN]
-That Peter Pan Film everyone loves to speculate about [some think Life is Beautiful from BB may be the song in question]

I actually love the Box Set demo of Always, much more so than the Cross Road version.
Old Habits Die Hard and Not Running Anymore are from Stand Up guys not New Year's Eve

Gotta Have a Reason was written for Robin Hood

Rdkopper 12-23-2018 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1249721)


Gotta Have a Reason was written for Robin Hood
Three Musketeers (close enough)

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Captain_jovi 12-23-2018 02:30 PM
Ah! Shoot, thanks!

Butters 12-23-2018 10:50 PM
Mr. Big Time for Armageddon. Cool little song.

Thinny 12-24-2018 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butters (Post 1249757)
Mr. Big Time for Armageddon. Cool little song.
Oh, I'd forgotten about that song! Not listened to it for year, but used to love it! Will have to dig it out!

Becky 12-24-2018 12:24 PM
Always was demoed in a hotel room. There’s a Japanese interview (video) of the band laughing about it because it was so high pitched that (paraphrased) the hotel staff thought they were in there killing Richie.

Jon thought Romeo Is Bleeding had a great script, but the final product was awful. And the lyrics do match the movie because there was something about photography. It was pretty much s stalker song and the movie DID suck so I remember very little about it.

Save the World was written for Armageddon. Jon gave them Mr. Big Time instead out of respect for Steven Tyler b/c Aerosmith recorded I Don’t Wsnt to Miss a Thing & Steven’s daughter was in the movie. I think Save the World was used to promote U-571 in Japan thought. I’m a little fuzzy on that one, but I think that’s correct.

Rdkopper 12-24-2018 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becky (Post 1249765)
Always was demoed in a hotel room. .
Do you know the year?

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bonjovi90 12-24-2018 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1249767)
Do you know the year?

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I think that this was in 1993 as they were touring the UK then. So either May or September 1993.

Rdkopper 12-24-2018 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1249768)
I think that this was in 1993 as they were touring the UK then. So either May or September 1993.
I think the question still remains opens as to if there was an early blue print.

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bonjovi90 12-24-2018 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becky (Post 1249765)
Save the World was written for Armageddon. Jon gave them Mr. Big Time instead out of respect for Steven Tyler b/c Aerosmith recorded I Don’t Wsnt to Miss a Thing & Steven’s daughter was in the movie. I think Save the World was used to promote U-571 in Japan thought. I’m a little fuzzy on that one, but I think that’s correct.
Interestingly, I have read two stories about that one over the years. The German biography features Jon telling it the way you did above with Aerosmith giving the movie the needed ballad and him keeping Save The World for their own album because of that.

And I've read a quote where it was said that the producer (?) didn't like Save The World too much and rather wanted to use Mister Big Time instead because he found it more fitting.

Doesn't make that much difference, just thought I'd mention it.

bonjovi90 12-24-2018 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1249769)
I think the question still remains opens as to if there was an early blue print.

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I think that there was at least some sort of rough acoustic demo with maybe Jon and Richie on it from when they wrote the song in 1991/92.
And maybe another pre-production demo that might've been given to the movie producers so they had an idea what sort of song Bon Jovi wanted to lend to the movie in the first place.

Becky 12-24-2018 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1249767)
Do you know the year?

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I don’t remember anymore. I used to have an excellent memory for Bon Jovi trivia & details, but now it seems unimportant. And even when I could give direct quotes from memory, some people would inevitably to negative or rude. I just don’t care about that stuff anymore.

YOVANAfromPeru 12-24-2018 05:11 PM
Hmmm... you know that JBJ has said he has "An early dementia", right? (joking of course)
however: "Always was recorded since May 1993, I wrote it for the film, I got the script and I loved both: title and idea, I read the scrip and said: I have to be the guy that have to write this! And after Blaze of Glory I wanted to do something else, right away! And it was this! So we recorded it on the road, you know Pino Palladino played bass and there was electric drum, David played piano, Richie played a little bit of guitar but with a really different production, it was made for movie and it was going to be a solo for this film. And it was very good, but the film wasn't it. We loved the song and it was for the next band record, it was so good that it would work best on the Greatest Hits record and so we re-recorded it as a band and on the course of a week we recorded this and Prayer '94, all in Nashville."

I'm not back, but I still can post when I want, 'cause I do whatever I want, remember? >_< jajajajaj

Rdkopper 12-24-2018 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru (Post 1249777)
Hmmm... you know that JBJ has said he has "An early dementia", right? (joking of course)

however: "Always was recorded since May 1993, I wrote it for the film, I got the script and I loved both: title and idea, I read the scrip and said: I have to be the guy that have to write this! And after Blaze of Glory I wanted to do something else, right away! And it was this! So we recorded it on the road, you know Pino Palladino played bass and there was electric drum, David played piano, Richie played a little bit of guitar but with a really different production, it was made for movie and it was going to be a solo for this film. And it was very good, but the film wasn't it. We loved the song and it was for the next band record, it was so good that it would work best on the Greatest Hits record and so we re-recorded it as a band and on the course of a week we recorded this and Prayer '94, all in Nashville."



I'm not back, but I still can post when I want, 'cause I do whatever I want, remember? >_< jajajajaj
She's Back!!! I was going through information withdrawal!!!

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bonjovi90 12-24-2018 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru (Post 1249777)
Hmmm... you know that JBJ has said he has "An early dementia", right? (joking of course)
however: "Always was recorded since May 1993, I wrote it for the film, I got the script and I loved both: title and idea, I read the scrip and said: I have to be the guy that have to write this! And after Blaze of Glory I wanted to do something else, right away! And it was this! So we recorded it on the road, you know Pino Palladino played bass and there was electric drum, David played piano, Richie played a little bit of guitar but with a really different production, it was made for movie and it was going to be a solo for this film. And it was very good, but the film wasn't it. We loved the song and it was for the next band record, it was so good that it would work best on the Greatest Hits record and so we re-recorded it as a band and on the course of a week we recorded this and Prayer '94, all in Nashville."

I'm not back, but I still can post when I want, 'cause I do whatever I want, remember? >_< jajajajaj
This all ties together quite well now, then they recorded it during the first European leg in the UK in 1993. Thanks for the information!

YOVANAfromPeru 12-24-2018 07:39 PM
just in case:
(10:37) https://omny.fm/shows/ugly-phil/ugly...018-with-jon-b
-_-

about the "Drinking" thing of the other day, when I got a cold I use to drink 1 strong drink, it works I'm 100% fine now, lol

Merry Christmas, everybody!

Rdkopper 12-24-2018 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru (Post 1249781)
just in case:
(10:37) https://omny.fm/shows/ugly-phil/ugly...018-with-jon-b
-_-

about the "Drinking" thing of the other day, when I got a cold I use to drink 1 strong drink, it works I'm 100% fine now, lol

Merry Christmas, everybody!
Cool little interview... Jon actually sounds like his old self again!!!

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YOVANAfromPeru 12-25-2018 12:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1249784)
Cool little interview... Jon actually sounds like his old self again!!!

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Do you know that today I received a lot of PM’s? I think they don’t understand that I don’t respond PM’s... however I will say it again: You all are my friends but Rdkopper always gonna be my favorite friend from here ‘cause he was the only one who believed me when there was no cassette! (and now I start to sound like JBJ... >_< jajaja I mean ho ho ho! or whatever)

Captain_jovi 12-25-2018 01:01 AM
I'm sorry for not believing you.

YOVANAfromPeru 12-25-2018 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1249788)
I'm sorry for not believing you.
Shut up, Cj.!
I’m telling you something... the “Drinking Song” sucks! JBJ probably would kill me if I post that one... lol and I don’t wanna die jajajaj

Captain_jovi 12-25-2018 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru (Post 1249789)
Shut up, Cj.!
I’m telling you something... the “Drinking Song” sucks! JBJ probably would kill me if I post that one... lol and I don’t wanna die jajajaj
Oh man, after all this years someones finally heard it.

Rdkopper 12-25-2018 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru (Post 1249787)
Do you know that today I received a lot of PM’s? I think they don’t understand that I don’t respond PM’s... however I will say it again: You all are my friends but Rdkopper always gonna be my favorite friend from here ‘cause he was the only one who believed me when there was no cassette! (and now I start to sound like JBJ... >_< jajaja I mean ho ho ho! or whatever)
I'm sure you did... but my PMs weren't tape related... lol... Enjoy the music!!!

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YOVANAfromPeru 12-25-2018 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1249791)
I'm sure you did... but my PMs weren't tape related... lol... Enjoy the music!!!

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The last PM I just received now was in Spanish and it was about you O_O jajajaj

Listen crazy people! Rdkopper is not my boyfriend. We were just playing all this time. And the answer is NO! I’m out of here.

Rdkopper 12-25-2018 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru (Post 1249792)
The last PM I just received now was in Spanish and it was about you O_O jajajaj



Listen crazy people! Rdkopper is not my boyfriend. We were just playing all this time. And the answer is NO! I’m out of here.
We were?

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YOVANAfromPeru 12-25-2018 02:48 AM
Person who sent me the PM in Spanish, why don’t you post here often??? and about Bon Jovi please >_< lol
because your PM was way off topic.

¡Feliz Navidad!

bonjovi90 12-25-2018 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru (Post 1249794)
Person who sent me the PM in Spanish, why don’t you post here often??? and about Bon Jovi please >_< lol

because your PM was way off topic.



¡Feliz Navidad!
It's the same as when a new song leaks. Then there are always a lot of users asking for the recording that you never see around here on other days. [emoji849]

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YOVANAfromPeru 12-25-2018 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1249795)
It's the same as when a new song leaks. Then there are always a lot of users asking for the recording that you never see around here on other days. [emoji849]

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I know but he seems a good guy and his PM was kinda funny; now I’m out of here!!!

Rdkopper 12-25-2018 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru (Post 1249796)
I know but he seems a good guy and his PM was kinda funny; now I’m out of here!!!
All the lurkers come out from under the rocks and tell you how wonderful you are...

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