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eddie73 11-21-2020 08:51 AM

What Next ?
 
As good as 2020 is an album, Jon has to admit it has flopped worldwide. 1st week sales around the world of around 60k is nothing short of woeful . Who's to blame ? poor choice of singles ( nothing new )... lack of promo ?....Jon getting involved in politics ? Or is it down to the fact they have simply lost their audience with the continued change of sound ?

Like I said 2020 is a great album from start to finish in my opinion , a fantastic collection of songs .

With them not touring this record at all now, should they go on to the next one, try n patch things up with Richie or should they call it a day ?

I hope its the former , cant really see Jon wanting to go out like this, surly he would want the final tour/album with the original 5 or at least Richie back by his side.!

Sod the trends, release a proper Rock album, the fans want it and see what happens. All bands have dips but jovi are in a deep hole and need to get out of it.

steel_horse75 11-21-2020 09:45 AM

What Next ?
 
Think you summed it up by saying ďsod the trendsĒ....but Jon cant.
2020 is decent in places but itís clearly not what Jovi fans want from Jovi.
This time the fans havenít bought it and because they canít ďsellĒ it with tickets the real numbers have been found out. The same terrible sales would have happened with THINFS as well.

Jonís paying the price for losing Richie, chasing trends and releasing music that fans donít associate Jovi with. You need to know what your fans want (see Ac/Dc who have just sold 62,000 copies in UK of power up) and BJ fans having been dropping off album by album.

The only thing that saves this band is a balls out rock album. Jon may not like the boy/girl songs but they are what he does best and the fans love most. Yes he can write about modern day stuff happening in the news but make it in the Hey God way.

Plus if a certain someone come back interest would be much higher. The partnership would be back and songs would be better.


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nikos greece 11-21-2020 11:52 AM

i think its time for changes...
2020 was a great record but imho jon must move on, get Richie back, write some more songs, change the producer jon shanks to fresh things up and and try to sell the come back in a way...
he could really open the vault and share some great moments to remind everyone how good they used to be. try more intimate stuff like a small theater tour for promo reasons. he must get out of his comfort zone and try end this impressive career with a bang. i dont say he must retire but sadly bj cant go on forever, richie has problems, tico is not getting younger so he must look into all these and direct a great ending.
Richie must come back, and they should try to deliver their best shot.

eddie73 11-22-2020 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel_horse75 (Post 1270322)
Think you summed it up by saying ďsod the trendsĒ....but Jon cant.
2020 is decent in places but itís clearly not what Jovi fans want from Jovi.
This time the fans havenít bought it and because they canít ďsellĒ it with tickets the real numbers have been found out. The same terrible sales would have happened with THINFS as well.

Jonís paying the price for losing Richie, chasing trends and releasing music that fans donít associate Jovi with. You need to know what your fans want (see Ac/Dc who have just sold 62,000 copies in UK of power up) and BJ fans having been dropping off album by album.

The only thing that saves this band is a balls out rock album. Jon may not like the boy/girl songs but they are what he does best and the fans love most. Yes he can write about modern day stuff happening in the news but make it in the Hey God way.

Plus if a certain someone come back interest would be much higher. The partnership would be back and songs would be better.


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Donít think as a touring act the numbers will fall because they have a great body of music and are in the ď Classic Rock , legendary ď market . Maybe a bucket list gig for many , like mine is the stones who Iím a big fan of but can never get a ticket .

Jon doesnít want to be known as a nostalgia act but thatís where they are now in my eyes .... AC/DC are far more relevant than jovi ... because they have such a big hard core following and also I know of non rock fans buying new album on the back of ď shot in the dark ď ... it was all over radio , tv adverts , billboard posters etc . Not sure why jon has insisted of moving with the times to stay relevant when it clearly hasnít worked as the numbers drop with each record .

They know the money is in reunion tours , the fans want it , surly the promotors have it in their minds for 40th anniversary tour ... itís a no brained to me and Iím sure jon & Richie want it as well

BJFan99 11-22-2020 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikos greece (Post 1270325)
i dont say he must retire but sadly bj cant go on forever, richie has problems, tico is not getting younger so he must look into all these and direct a great ending.
Richie must come back, and they should try to deliver their best shot.

Otherwise I would agree, but unfortunately there's no "great ending" to Bon Jovi's career with Jon's current vocal abilities.

musiccritic101 11-22-2020 11:42 PM

I know it's a long shot and it probably won't happen but when Jon decides its time to hang it up I want Bon Jovi to reunite with Richie and just write and record a full blown rock album in the same vein as Slippery & New Jersey records. Just to pay tribute to the band's origins before they decided to hang it up for good. That's many years away because we all know Jon doesn't know when it time to stop and he's basically using Springsteen and Jagger as a gauge on when it's time to retire.

Captain_jovi 11-22-2020 11:47 PM

I honestly think Jon's voice doesn't have the power to do songs like that anymore. A lot of consider 2010/2011 to be some of the best Jon has been post Crush and he really struggled with Let it Rock live even then. Bringing Richie back isn't going to undo all of Jon's problems. His harmonies will make it a hell of a lot better though.

bonjovi90 11-23-2020 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1270377)
I honestly think Jon's voice doesn't have the power to do songs like that anymore. A lot of consider 2010/2011 to be some of the best Jon has been post Crush and he really struggled with Let it Rock live even then. Bringing Richie back isn't going to undo all of Jon's problems. His harmonies will make it a hell of a lot better though.

Let It Rock was actually the song I was most surprised by Jon's vocal capabilities in 2010 because that "seven days too soon" is friggin' high. :mrgreen:

musiccritic101 11-23-2020 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1270377)
I honestly think Jon's voice doesn't have the power to do songs like that anymore. A lot of consider 2010/2011 to be some of the best Jon has been post Crush and he really struggled with Let it Rock live even then. Bringing Richie back isn't going to undo all of Jon's problems. His harmonies will make it a hell of a lot better though.

Not that we're talking about a real album here but despite Jon's limited vocal capabilities Jon can just use the 'studio tricks' he's been using on his vocals the last couple album releases.

Now back to reality I'm sure Jon will continue his normal album schedule despite the non-existent touring schedule. I mean the longer the band is off the road Jon can write and record demos for the next album. If he's even in that state of mind yet. Touring wise I'm sure the band will start touring again soon, there are few other acts that have scheduled shows for 2021, GnR being one of em'.

Captain_jovi 11-23-2020 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musiccritic101 (Post 1270381)
Not that we're talking about a real album here but despite Jon's limited vocal capabilities Jon can just use the 'studio tricks' he's been using on his vocals the last couple album releases. .

Oh absolutely but we're talking about reunion tours. I think we're all realistic enough to know that even with Richie back, Bon Jovi will have a hell of a time with a "Successful" album without selling ticket/tour packages. Everything is just VERY transparent now.

Alphavictim 11-23-2020 04:08 AM

Over here, one particular TV channel always has live stuff on on New Years, until way in the morning. There's stuff like ZZ Top, Prince, Metallica's S&M2... but this year, guess what else is gonna be shown? Bon Jovi 2020! Maybe they're trying to turn the whole thing around with the live show thing. Considering Kiss want $50 for their stream, that's not a bad idea. Of course, it also guarantees that it'll be doctored to hell and back...

But I'm not sure if the band / JBJ have let 2020 drop and sink just yet.

bonjovi90 11-23-2020 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphavictim (Post 1270384)
Over here, one particular TV channel always has live stuff on on New Years, until way in the morning. There's stuff like ZZ Top, Prince, Metallica's S&M2... but this year, guess what else is gonna be shown? Bon Jovi 2020! Maybe they're trying to turn the whole thing around with the live show thing. Considering Kiss want $50 for their stream, that's not a bad idea. Of course, it also guarantees that it'll be doctored to hell and back...



But I'm not sure if the band / JBJ have let 2020 drop and sink just yet.

Oh damn I was actually always looking forward to the Rock Around The Clock special on 3sat and now they do this? [emoji85]

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Thinny 11-23-2020 10:26 AM

I really don't see any way for Bon Jovi to have a huge album or hit single now. Richie or no Richie, it's really not going to make much difference. I think those days are gone. However a farewell reunion tour with Richie would be friggin huge! I really don't see any other option other than the downward spiral that they are currently on...

musiccritic101 11-23-2020 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny (Post 1270388)
I really don't see any way for Bon Jovi to have a huge album or hit single now. Richie or no Richie, it's really not going to make much difference. I think those days are gone. However a farewell reunion tour with Richie would be friggin huge! I really don't see any other option other than the downward spiral that they are currently on...

I would have to agree, there wasn't much hit singles or chart topping albums even when Richie was onboard and if there was success it was somewhat minor meaning chart topping in different countries. Reunion touring is basically where all the money is at, I sure as hell would pay to see the original 5 members live in concert one last time.

But what I will say album-wise when Jon wrote and record pop oriented songs like Born To Follow or the travesty which is Because We Can, Richie's vocals and guitar work kinda made it bearable. If you were to hypothetically remove Richie's vocals and guitar work from Born To Follow you would end up with it sounding like LImitless.

richiefan95 11-23-2020 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musiccritic101 (Post 1270391)
I would have to agree, there wasn't much hit singles or chart topping albums even when Richie was onboard and if there was success it was somewhat minor meaning chart topping in different countries. Reunion touring is basically where all the money is at, I sure as hell would pay to see the original 5 members live in concert one last time.

But what I will say album-wise when Jon wrote and record pop oriented songs like Born To Follow or the travesty which is Because We Can, Richie's vocals and guitar work kinda made it bearable. If you were to hypothetically remove Richie's vocals and guitar work from Born To Follow you would end up with it sounding like LImitless.

I fully agree. There are a few songs that would have sounded pretty good with a guitar solo from Richie or some backing vocal. Probably they would sell more albums with Richie, but the amount of album Bon Jovi is selling is so low it for sure would be a financial net loss for Jon if he had to pay Richie.

In 2019 on the european leg the attendance was pretty good considering the state the band was in. I would also really like to see Richie back but I think that a lot of people go to a Bon Jovi concert just it is called Bon Jovi. They don't care about the guitar player. 50% would probably go to a Bon Jovi concert without Jon Bon Jovi. I am not so sure that the attendance would be so much better at a reunion tour.
I hope Jon does an reunion tour as long as Tico is able to perform. But Jon is a Businessman and if he doesn't gain something financially he won't do it.

Thinny 11-23-2020 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richiefan95 (Post 1270392)
In 2019 on the european leg the attendance was pretty good considering the state the band was in. I would also really like to see Richie back but I think that a lot of people go to a Bon Jovi concert just it is called Bon Jovi. They don't care about the guitar player. 50% would probably go to a Bon Jovi concert without Jon Bon Jovi. I am not so sure that the attendance would be so much better at a reunion tour.
I hope Jon does an reunion tour as long as Tico is able to perform. But Jon is a Businessman and if he doesn't gain something financially he won't do it.

Disagree. It's all about how it's marketed. Marketed as a big reunion tour and/or farewell tour would bring a lot of people back that have lost interest. Ticket sales were decent in 2019, but there were a lot of 2 for 1 offers going about for some shows, and compared to even 10/15 years ago they were not what they were...Jon needs something that will make a difference, and get people excited. Aside from this, I don't really see what else he has...

edit: above comments were about UK shows. Not sure about US ticket sales wise. I also think that we care more about the "band" over here than the US audience.

richiefan95 11-23-2020 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny (Post 1270396)
Disagree. It's all about how it's marketed. Marketed as a big reunion tour and/or farewell tour would bring a lot of people back that have lost interest. Ticket sales were decent in 2019, but there were a lot of 2 for 1 offers going about for some shows, and compared to even 10/15 years ago they were not what they were...Jon needs something that will make a difference, and get people excited. Aside from this, I don't really see what else he has...

edit: above comments were about UK shows. Not sure about US ticket sales wise. I also think that we care more about the "band" over here than the US audience.

I meant when you consider his voice, stage presence and that Richie wasn't there the sales in 2019 were decent under those circumstances. Sure that the numbers where way of from their prime.

Captain_jovi 11-23-2020 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musiccritic101 (Post 1270391)
I would have to agree, there wasn't much hit singles or chart topping albums even when Richie was onboard and if there was success it was somewhat minor meaning chart topping in different countries. Reunion touring is basically where all the money is at, I sure as hell would pay to see the original 5 members live in concert one last time.

But what I will say album-wise when Jon wrote and record pop oriented songs like Born To Follow or the travesty which is Because We Can, Richie's vocals and guitar work kinda made it bearable. If you were to hypothetically remove Richie's vocals and guitar work from Born To Follow you would end up with it sounding like LImitless.

While neither here nor there as a fact, I am convinced Shanks played the lead main riff of Born to Follow. That echo, palm-muted riff that Bobby did live. The tone sounds just like him and Richie hasn't done it a single time live. Just some food for thought that our brain conditions us based on what we think we're hearing.

Thinny 11-23-2020 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richiefan95 (Post 1270397)
I meant when you consider his voice, stage presence and that Richie wasn't there the sales in 2019 were decent under those circumstances. Sure that the numbers where way of from their prime.

I think a lot of people didn't know the state of Jon's voice before they attended the show. It's only really die hard fans that go looking and youTube vids etc. I think they will think twice next time...

polevka 11-24-2020 11:00 AM

Somehow I can't imagine Jon to ever make a farewell tour. It seems like not his style. But who knows...

BJFan99 11-24-2020 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinny (Post 1270409)
I think a lot of people didn't know the state of Jon's voice before they attended the show. It's only really die hard fans that go looking and youTube vids etc. I think they will think twice next time...

God, only the number of FB/IG etc. comments asking what's wrong with Jon's voice (let alone the videos of the shows, especially after DŁsseldorf) made me cringe time after time, show after show last year. His vocal decline seems to have come as a complete shock for most casuals and reading their outcomes of disappointment made me very sad as well.

If I were Jon, I wouldn't have (had) the guts to charge people with those hideous vocals anymore.

Eveline 11-24-2020 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJFan99 (Post 1270413)
If I were Jon, I wouldn't have (had) the guts to charge people with those hideous vocals anymore.

Well, a few days ago I stumbled upon a tweet and the girl said Jon's voice sounds like a warm blanket. It's a fkn lullaby to some! Honestly, I struggle to understand those people. I last maybe 10 seconds before I have to mute Jon or else my ears will bleed.

BJFan99 11-24-2020 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eveline (Post 1270414)
Well, a few days ago I stumbled upon a tweet and the girl said Jon's voice sounds like a warm blanket. It's a fkn lullaby to some! Honestly, I struggle to understand those people. I last maybe 10 seconds before I have to mute Jon or else my ears will bleed.

Well, if she said so, she probably hasn't heard his recent live vocals, so let's try to be fair. In the studio (albeit after heavy processing and doctoring) the guy still sounds way better than live, even on the 2020 album.

RonJovi 11-26-2020 11:33 PM

Jonís been hammered on here over the years for chasing trends, album sales and money. Iím surprised to see posters here say ď2020 was good but it flopped so Jon needs to do something else.Ē

Personally, album sales donít bother me. 2020 is a better album than most (if not all) of their post 2000 output. I also enjoyed THINFS after a couple of mediocre studio albums (WAN and TC).

Eveline 11-27-2020 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJFan99 (Post 1270420)
Well, if she said so, she probably hasn't heard his recent live vocals, so let's try to be fair. In the studio (albeit after heavy processing and doctoring) the guy still sounds way better than live, even on the 2020 album.

Yeah, she referred to those home vids, which are obviously doctored, but still dubbed 'live' anyway. Any song will be butchered by JBJ at this point, be it with Shanks' or Phil's or no solo at all. The 'new' voice doesn't match the 'old' hits, either. It's just forging ahead now. Making millions out of nostalgic fans who accept what little is left before it's a definite 'the end' or hardcore JBJ fans who would die for one smile at their direction. This is what it is.

steel_horse75 11-27-2020 02:33 PM

What Next ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RonJovi (Post 1270554)
Jonís been hammered on here over the years for chasing trends, album sales and money. Iím surprised to see posters here say ď2020 was good but it flopped so Jon needs to do something else.Ē

Personally, album sales donít bother me. 2020 is a better album than most (if not all) of their post 2000 output. I also enjoyed THINFS after a couple of mediocre studio albums (WAN and TC).


They just to go back to what their good at.
2020 has some positive reviews but itís not sold as fans arenít buying it.


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Litneg 11-28-2020 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel_horse75 (Post 1270579)
They just to go back to what their good at.
2020 has some positive reviews but it’s not sold as fans aren’t buying it.


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Maybe the fans are buying it, but not the general public. There was too little promotion, there were no advises on youtube (for example I remember seeing lots of times the THINFS video playing on YT ads), and also an odd distribution of the record. Some countries only started selling it one month after the release!

I'm not saying they would have blown the numbers doing those things right, but 2020 would certainly have done better.

cqleonardo 11-28-2020 04:41 AM

As much as I love this album, it was released in a terrible moment... Would make much more sense to just put it away and release it later... Or release just on streaming and stuff, sent to people that bought on the pre sale.
Personally what I would like them to do (but I know they won't because Jon doesnt like to "live in the past) it was a celebration in 2023 because of the 40th anniversary of the band. New compliation with 2-4 new songs, greatest hits tour, some vault stuff, nice promos and photos...


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