Jim Bon jovi's theory on God
 

k in response to axlash post and request for my theory on God, here it is.

WARNING: If you follow a religion and don't like it being questioned in any way or form then i suggest you don't read this because i don't want it turning into a big argument, more a debate.

The vast majority of people here will be able to read it and take what they want from it whereas sadly some will no doubt be highly offended as asking people to question something they've believed in all their life is a very hard and sometimes impossible thing for some people to do or comprehend.

Background: I'm not an overly religious person. I'm a Protestant, go to church on occasion when I'm not working and at Christmas and Rememberance day. I know the difference between good and bad and right and wrong and I don't need a book or a minister to tell me and teach me this. Now this theory came about during a philosophy essay in high school, it may be a bit difficult to swallow if you don't know a thing about philosophy or grasp where it's coming from but hopefully most of you will at least get the point.

ps I actually failed the exam cos it had no relevance whatsoever to do with God but i thought this was too good to not write about :)


THE THEORY: Now this is going to take alot of questioning and discarding of what many of you will believe as fact and truth. I'm not asking anyone to totally turn round and say what you think isn't true and again i dont want people to totally reject the theory straight away. If you at least try for a moment to think about the philosophical point and not the religious idea then it will go a great way for you to understand this.

Now most people when they think of God think of some man or being (white beard and robes included :D ) that can move mountains, cause thunderstorms and even create the full Universe as we know it.

Now this is the part that people find hardest to let go of. There is no empirical evidence to prove that God exists. Empirical evidence is evidence of a physical nature. No ones going to find God's plans for the Universe lying on a beach somewhere, we can't look at the Universe and trully know that God created it and prior to contrary belief God can not and has not spoken to anyone ever.

God is in essence, totally immaterial and something of another dimension or world so there is never going to be any empirical evidence of God's existance.

(note im saying God instead of he. it goes along way to throwing off this religious idea)

Outraged yet? fair enough you may be but bear with me and try to let go of this perception of God and for the time being try and grasp the philosophical being of God.

Philosophers on the other hand do not think God can move mountains or send his son to Earth. But they do still believe God exists in one form or another. But as there's no physical evidence to prove God exists then it must be done through rationalism.

Now most philosophers believe God is an all knowing all seeing being but I have to disagree with this as you will find out.

Now there is no denying that some people believe God exists and some people don't. By rational deduction. it only takes 1 person to believe in God for God to exist. Now REMEBER I'm not talking about the big white bearded dude. I'm talking about an entity that is there with the person.

It may not be as compelling or romantic as the religious idea of God but lets look at what religions use God for in the 1st place. Hope, Faith, Kindness, Strength etc... so this idea of God still holds the same answers.

This is where people start saying yeah so Santa Claus is true and Elvis lives.

Wrong. Sadly Santas your mum and dad and Elvis is in the big Mcdonalds in the sky. Why does God exist and Santa doesn't? Look back to the start here. Once you get past the religious idea of a physical being and realise that this doesnt exist and God is really only a rational entity it becomes clear.

You can prove that Santa does not exist, could take you forever but you could go round the world and prove that Santa doesn't exist, same with the easter bunny and co. You CANNOT however, disprove God as an entity existing in peoples minds.

Believing in God as hope and faith gives you hope and faith. Believing in God as someone who can stop people flying planes into buildings and starting wars is always going to let you down because God exists in the believers mind and has no bearing on the physical world apart from what the believer lets their perception of God "make" them do.

This does lead alot of people to do the same things as they already do with relation to religion. Someone believes in god and believes God wants them to be good, they'll be good. Someone really believes God will reward them for flying planes into buildings, they'll do it.

But what does this mean??? well. What I think it means could really piss off alot of people so i doubt i should really be saying it but **** it. If believing in God as an entity within us but with no physical bearing ont he world means we still do the same things regardless of the "physical" and religious "evidence" we get thrust upon us then it would mean, to a large extent that religious teachings aren't necesarry. Jesus didn't exist, Most of whats in the Bible is irrelevant etc...


Now alot of you may be thinking that this is alot of bullshit or that ive been smoking some good stuff but just think about it for a minute. Be honest with yourself. If you can comprehend even for 5 minutes that your idea of God as a physical being cannot be true then it makes alot more sense than 1st impressions lead you to.

Try it and read over it again thinking at it from this point of view. I had to do it when coming up with my theory and it's left me feelign alot better off with the whole idea behind God.



There's more to it than that and i could probably have made it clearer but it was 2 years ago i came up with that and i havent done philosophy in a long time.

I agree with something that you wrote, and disagree with some.

I've always thought of God kinda like the force in the Star Wars - movies, kinda like you. I don't think God ever speaks to people or performs miracles, nor do I think he really cares what we think.

I think most of what the bible or the other books say is just a nice story. I don't believe in it anymore than I believe in Tom Sawyer. If God really exists, he has no need being jealous and cruel, why would he care? He could do anything.

Anyway, I like what you've done here, though some of it is not my stuff at all.

I don't believe in organized religon at all, I believe in the freedom of choice.

Ice

I'm an engineer and a technical person in general so I have my problems with blind faith. I certainly believe in forces of nature beyond our control. It is, however, hard to believe in the second law of thermodynamics (entropy) and believe in God as most people do.

Kathleen

That's pretty much my belief in God too. I do however believe in Jesus and the forgiveness of sins. Yeah, I realize that it could very well be taking the easy way out, but some things I just believe in, even though it could be wrong. I strongly believe it isn't, but speaking rationally, it could be. I have no problem believing God is different than what we imagine him to be. Some things I don't really need an explanation for. I guess I'll find out some day. :D

Adrian

Ill go with the ann rice version of him in memnoch the devil 8)

I like that theory. :) I don't think I understood everything, but this seems to be very similar to what I think about God.

I've never been to church in my life because my parents are not religious, so nobody really told me about these things. :roll: When I was old enough to become interested in religion by myself, I started reading about it and talked to some people about God and so on.

What I believe is that God isn't a person or something like that. A force fits my imagination a bit better yet. We need... something to be lieve in :D and so a few people become better men because of their belief in God. It's like God just becomes true because of thoughts in the believer's minds, but if he/she/it really exists then is what we can decide to believe. I believe there is something.

Hope you understand what I want to say. :roll:

Anyway, nice thread. (And hey, this should be my 200th post!) :D

I have trouble explaining how I am 'alive', in this body at this point of time.... why me? why here? why now??

Why am I not an animal??

Why I am I English??

What kind of chemical reaction can make me suddenly aware & here - right now, yet when I die, it won't exist any more????

I have real trouble understanding this.

This is exactly why I believe in an intelligent God. Not neccessarily one that overlooks every aspect of our lives and steps in to help, but one that just watches to see what we do. Sort of like the Big Brother tv show. Without commercials, and that can see everyone in the world. However, I seriously doubt that that's a thrilling comparison for him.

Adrian

Jim, i swear, if we were face to face, we could sit and discuss stuff all night, you come up with some damn good discussion stuff.

Okay,

My RE teacher ( i went to a catholic school ) taught me about pascals first theory, ie, we all know that earth was created by a big bang, an explosion of gases and chemicals, but what caused these??? other gases and chemicals, but what caused these??? other gases and chemicals, and so on and so on. But!!! something can not come out of nothing, so what created the spark for this chain reaction....GOD!


Faith is what gets us through the day, wether its in your local football team, your mates or indeed a religious entity, they all help us accept life as it is!!!

Jim, keep these posts going... i love em

warning:if u think i"M trying to fight then u have got another thing coming...i"m just like u..again i also don"t went to temples....i hate them coz they r all currupted..

jim,u said u don"t need a book to to teach u what"s right & wrong...but u know what 80% of time we don"t know what the **** we"re doing..or we want to forget....u drink too much bcoz u want to forget your sins...we all do certain things do forget...1 of the reasons people like sex bcoz it kills the inner pain

theory of axlash:

you are talking about evidance...can u see oxygen??but it"s still there..i remamber thomas anderson saying why belive what is written thousands years ago?welll,the indian book 30,000 years ago has a maths written in it(!!!!!!!) not only just jungle-maths...but multieplication & even hardest part (calculas>>>>>>!!!!!!!!)

now about science...they don"t even know why my nails are growing & talking about survivals & god....they know only 1%(i said more) of what"s going all around...now.....1st of all religion is not in the picture..

CALL ME CRAZY:

i can proove that god is there......for example ..look at your body..thousands of minerals & still it"s completly balenced(acid-baiz-pH-7.0).....now when we see our body..what we see in it..in one word ..perfaction...now can u say that nature & according to darwin only nature can do this???it"s senseless & impossible.....

in the world we can see 2 things:perfaction & entropy

every god damm thing is leading us to destruction....(i"M not saying that ,but thermodynamics)....now see all around u we"Re all the way saved by someone....i mean someone is there who is protecting us...we can be vanished by low level of oxygen...but see how good the god is that he made the trees??

after writing this i"m not saying that jim is wrong & i"m rightbut the way i see it.....god is there