I don't know what you're reaching for here Jackie but it's sounds like one of you unworldly conspiracy theories.

- Jon wrote a lot of great songs on his own
- Jon and Richie wrote great songs together
- and Jon wrote great songs with people outside the band...

The Jon from the late 80s to mid 90s was unnatural, inhuman, and could have even been from another planet... It's not only that his writing was so brilliant back then but his voice was and that's what took well crafted songs into greatness... "I Believe" is a perfect example of how his voice turned a song he wrote into greatness... "Dry County" is an example of his brilliant writing...

"Bed Of Roses" - "It's Hard Letting You Go" and "Something to Believe In" are combinations of both. Brilliant Writing attached to a Brilliant Voice...

So now, what are you going to explain to me?

90% of Bon Jovi is Jon and Richie just like 90% of Guns & Roses is Slash and Axl.

Alec leaves, Hugh steps in, no one flinches. Steven Adler leaves, Matt Sorum steps in / leaves, and then Frank Ferrer steps in, no one flinches.

Axl and Bucket-head make an album and tour, but it's not Guns N Roses no matter how many original members play on it.

Jon carries the Bon Jovi name so it's much more accepting for Jon to do anything and call it Bon Jovi plus he did a great job promoting Dave and Tico throughout these times but Richie wore a lot of hats (pun intended). Co Writer, Co Producer, Guitar part writer, Guitar player and sound, and backing / harmonizing vocalist... Remove all that and you no longer have Bon Jovi...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=19s&v=1JJksteB-uM

Great show with one of their best setlists ever with 4 encores and the band is on fire! Sadly, there isn't a better quality version.

Um... that I don't disagree with anything you just said, but none of it would explain why THINFS and My Guitar don't sound like they were written by the same guy? And the suggestion I offered could be a reasonable explanation?

That is, unless you know, somehow, that Richie wasn't the primary songwriter on My Guitar and, therefore, that my "unworldly theory" couldn't possibly explain the difference.

I wasn't reaching for anything, RDK. I noticed a parallel in your two statements and offered a possible explanation for it. There was no intention to take anything away from Jon or, God forbid, to suggest that Richie might ever have been more responsible than Jon for something good once upon a time.

So here's a question for you. Why do you insist on trying to turn every ****ing comment I make into a Jon and Richie pissing contest? It's getting old. Believe it or not, I do have opinions about things that have nothing to do with trying to one-up Richie over Jon.

Y'know, never mind. It seems like several people have already tried to subtly move this back to YT discussions. If you still want to respond, let's take it to the "Anything" thread or PMs.

Jackie, you're the one turning everything into a pissing contest... When the guy in video made the comment about comparing My Guitar to This House, he was just pulling a random track off of These Days and could have easily said Something To Believe In to make his point...There was no thought process what so ever behind that. He made a slight mistake and happened to pick a song Richie Co Wrote on... Did you even watch the video? and understand the content ??? It's really not that serious...

He also said that he hated The Circle (and everything after) of which Richie was all over but no one is flipping that back onto Richie...

If you think for one second that Richie is the backbone in Jon's writing, you're insane... I could put together a box set of brilliant songs that Jon solely wrote but I can't even pick 5 decent songs that Richie did... We could start with the 3 he did on Stranger and they might even be the weakest of the 10 songs on that album:
Church of Desire
Mr. Bluesman
River of Love

Richie even included a song that he and Jon cowrote on his own solo album...

No one is picking apart The Beatles. They had chemistry and did great things together... The End... Bon Jovi is the same thing...Jon is Great and Richie was Great. They did great thing together... The End...

Love this song live.
Always wondered why Richie didn’t put that solo at the end on the album version.

Yes, he could.

The bridge would give him some trouble, but not totally out of his current range.

Everyday is also pretty easy to vocally and is a lot more popular than The Distance. I can't understand why this song hasn't returned to the setlists given it's relative "popularity to the easiness to sing" ratio.

Agreed. There are songs which Jon could potentially sing which would actually freshen up the set yet they are overlooked...

Strange decision making but that’s often the way when it’s a dictatorship. (Dramatic example but you get what I mean)


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David plays parts of Runaway, Bad Name and Prayer with some band. I think they're performing in the original key but I'm not sure.

Because Jon wouldn't allow him to I'm sure. :)

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It's funny looking at their reactions. Most of the kids dislike the band and one even said they're not Rock n Roll HOF worthy. But f**ing hell, they only played them the hits! They should've played them everything from KTF and These Days and all the kids would have loved it I'm sure.

If they didn't like the big guns imagine the little guns

That one kid is so irritating....


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Their reactions were pretty spot on. Kids nowadays don't like rock music since it's not on the radio anymore and it's not cool to listen to or imitate the aesthetics. And no, playing them rock music all the time, dragging them to rock concerts and banning top40 stations at home won't do the trick I guarantee you, they are surrounded by a type of music that won't go away any time soon and it's the polar opposite of rock.

They were much more receptive and positive than I'd have thought, knowing many kids this age and trying to broaden their musical tastes. Their reaction is almost always: rock is booooring, old people's music, slow, too loud, I can't dance to it, don't you have latest hip-hop/Latin/sexy pop starlet hit?

PS: the problem is not the other musical styles per se, but the lack of variety in popular music like we had back in the day. Kids listen to what their friends listen and no kid below the age of 15 is going to explore alternative/non commercial styles

Some of the small guns are better than the big guns. :)

The "I'm on my WAY" and "I'm movin' ON" parts of Everyday would probably sound pretty bad nowadays. But do you think Jon could still sing Open All Night live?

https://youtu.be/R4zlgAyGOoc

Yes, the note Jon is expected to hit on the last "I don't want to MAKE the same mistakes..." part is pretty high, but also very short, and it's also the only high(er) note on the whole song, so I think Jon would still be able to hit it - at least occasionally. Also, whenever he'd think that his voice wouldn't be up for hitting the note, he could dodge it by singing the part similarly to the first two choruses.

What do you think, Walleris?

Open All Night would be WAY more difficult than the other two Bounce songs we discussed before. It has a lot long notes and is not as easy to hide as, let's say Bed Of Roses, even if most of them are lower. Perhaps he can whisper some of the chorus (e.g. Labor Of Love), but I don't see the end result being satisfactory for a demanding Bon Jovi fan, even if I was intrigued to hear him try.

That final "MAKE the same mistake" note was no easy task for 2010 Jon (he nailed it in Tulsa and London, but butchered it at NMS night 4), so I can't see him nailing it on a consistent basis today; only by shouting for his life (e.g. that "yeah yeah yeah" in KTF from 2015). However, he could obviously just go low just like on the previous two choruses, so it's not the biggest obstacle.

Aloha !

I'm not sure who's fooling who here? There's not a song from the entire Bon Jovi discography Jon's still capable of singing. He hasn't sung a song in years and yet here we are discussing as to what song Jon could still sing? Jon can't sing anymore, permanently. Every single performance of every song out there sounds flat, nasal, out of key and out of breath. Just because he's hit a few high notes every now and then doesn't mean he was actually singing them. It's pointless to discuss as to what song he could still sing when there's absolutely no range to begin with.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Not sure why you would post a comment like this directed at the might I, one of Jon's harshest vocal critics of the last 5 years.

However, let's be real here and apply some context. The Distance and Everyday are extremely easy to sing in a key that Bon Jovi play them live. I can sing them. Jon can sing them, minus maybe 2 bum notes. He can sing about 5 soungs of of 200 in his catalogue and these are two of them.

I wonder if The Distance's chorus is possible. The damn thing is a run on sentence.

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He can stop in the middle and breathe in, singers do that all the time.


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I think Jon can still sing this one. It does have any high notes and the only spot where he might struggle is the " noovaacaaaine" before the guitar solo.

This one too. It's not that hard to sing. I wonder why they don't play it anymore. Do you think it might bring back bad memories for Jon because of the MCL strain ?

Seb, I'm sure Jon could still sing Diamond Ring, Bitter Wine and You Had Me From Hello pretty well (even by your standards). Check out this performance of YHMFH:

https://youtu.be/-9dQp_vhT3g

However, for me it's one of the crappiest songs in the whole BJ catalogue (actually, most of the ballads from the early 00s are quite poor; save for TYFLM), and I'm strongly against the possibility of it being played this - or any other, for that matter - year.

Don't forget Joey, Shot Through The Heart, TWTWMM and Right Side Of The Wrong.

After more than 6.5 years, I don't think Jon even remembers which song he was performing during the moment he was injured. I think it's simply because of him overlooking LTOR as a song nowadays - and that's pretty damn sad. Here's a killer mid-'13 version of it:

https://youtu.be/f2f_ntuPYPY

And before Seb replies that the words "killer" and "mid-'13" don't fit in the same sentence, I say it myself... and in comparison to the golden years of the band, I agree for the most part. However, for a post-'11 one the performance above IS absolutely brilliant, and I'm completely honest while saying this. No different opinion will change my mind.

But that's what opinions are for, right - arguing over things analytically? :D

Aloha !

Because his royal mighty I is wrong. :D

With Jon Bon Jovi you're no longer talking about a man who's lost a bit of his range, you're talking about a man who can't sing anymore.

According to Jon, the first verse of a simple song like We Weren't Born To Follow goes like this, and no, those aren't typos.

This one goes out to the man who mines for miracles
This one goes out
to the ones
in
need
This one goes out
to the sinner and the cynical
ain't about
no apologies
This road was paved by the hopeless and the henry
This road was paved
On the winds of chance
Walking beside
the guilty and the innocent
How will you raise your hands
for your name?

After the first line his timing is off and by the end of the verse he's making up words and/or (mostly and) is skipping words altogether just to make sure some sound is coming out.

Think I'm kidding? Check this video:

That's from the supposedly fantastic 2017 South American tour.

Really, if he can't sing We Weren't Born To Follow then he's surely not able to sing anything else either. Sure, he'd be able to whisper himself through bits and pieces of the first lines of the chorus of The Distance, but the line "I'll never give up the fight" is impossible for him nowadays.

No, he can't sing the songs you mentioned and your example of You Had Me From Hello proves it. "And when you're laying down beside me" is strained, because his range is gone. Your example is from 3 years ago and his vocals are at the absolute biggest low of his career now. It's not like its gotten any better the last few years, right? The same would go for Bitter Wine, the chorus requires him to sing a few lines as opposed to whisper them and it'd sound strained and flat again.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Jon just can't do it anymore.

Adding pauses in the middle of verses is not a voice issue. He does it even where there's absolutely no need for it.

Look at the Rock in Rio 2017 and song Raise Your Hands. He's completely off key during the whole song but he sings some verses in one piece while breaking some apart for no apparent reason. And it's always the same verses.

"Gonna set .... the night in fire"
"Playing to .... win"
"It's up to .... you"

It's annoying because you don't expect it and it breaks the flow.

Sometimes I feel like we're watching a version of The Emperor's New Clothes but in this case noone has the balls to tell the emperor his singing is dreadful.

After thinking about it a bit more, you're probably right, as sad as it is to admit.

But I feel for Jon about this situation. He undoubtedly knows himself and his voice better than any of us, and you can bet that he's pissed.

I'm pissed, too - but in a different way than he is or you are. I'm sad, and I still somehow believe that he'll be able to improve. Definitely not back to any of his previous levels, but back to a level where at least some of his performances are honestly listenable.

You can clearly see him being angry and frustrated about his voice not working properly here (and on many other These Days performances from the BWC tour as well):

https://youtu.be/wmwXEeS6zyE

I vaguely remember someone mentioning last year how fun it would be to see the rest of the band give Jon a massive stink eye every time he f***s up vocally. As you can see, there's no need for it - he already does it himself! :D

[QUOTE=Supersonic;1234061]Aloha !



Because his royal mighty I is wrong. :D

With Jon Bon Jovi you're no longer talking about a man who's lost a bit of his range, you're talking about a man who can't sing anymore.

According to Jon, the first verse of a simple song like We Weren't Born To Follow goes like this, and no, those aren't typos.

This one goes out to the man who mines for miracles
This one goes out
to the ones
in
need
This one goes out
to the sinner and the cynical
ain't about
no apologies
This road was paved by the hopeless and the henry
This road was paved
On the winds of chance
Walking beside
the guilty and the innocent
How will you raise your hands
for your name?

After the first line his timing is off and by the end of the verse he's making up words and/or (mostly and) is skipping words altogether just to make sure some sound is coming out.

Think I'm kidding? Check this video:

That's from the supposedly fantastic 2017 South American tour.

The only good shows on the South American tour were RIR and Sao Paulo. Nobody's saying the whole tour South American tour was fantastic.

In this case, no one needs to tell the emperor anything, as he undoubtedly knows it all by himself. However, there's only so much (or little, in fact) that he can do about it, and that's why we're all so grateful for YouTube - after all, there you can always revisit pretty much any prime-era BJ concert you want (well, not literally any, but close enough). This one's currently my absolute favorite:

https://youtu.be/Dy9NODFkj9k

Bloody hell, the whole European leg of the KTF tour was magical. The guys were on f***ing fire in every single f***ing show! God, how I wish to have been around back then, so I would've been able to catch them up at their best live form...

EDIT: Prior to this date, I never noticed that Jon played his acoustic on BOR at the show I posted above! Does anybody here know if he did it somewhere else around that time as well?

Somebody should tell him that it makes more sense to retire than stain that legacy. He's not doing himself or the band any favors carrying on with these awful performances.

It's obvious it's a mental issue. Go to a shrink, call Richie and sort stuff out. Remove whatever is the cause but stop butchering these amazing songs.

What if he actually WANTS to keep his career going? Let's face it, Jon might get slapped here for no longer having the same amount of passion for making music/performing as he once did, but I don't think he's lost much of it either. If he had, he surely wouldn't have been even willing to continue, let alone have basically pushed the band forward after the stressful mess that was the BWC tour.

JBJ is and has always been a workaholic (after all, he's even admitted it himself), but it's because of his passion. Would his passion have died at some point, he wouldn't be doing these things anymore.

Deep inside, he's still that Jersey boy with dreams bigger than his hair (*insert an imaginary laugh track here*) to fulfill that he was back in 1982 when he first walked into that radio station outside the Long Island Expressway. There may not be much left of that guy for some - if not many - of you, but he's clearly still there, somewhere. You just have to look a little harder, a little deeper, a little longer.

I'm sorry for getting a bit poetic/author-like, but this is just how I feel about Jon.

PS. I'm particularly sorry for Walleris and Seb, who will both probably suffer from severe pain on their stomach muscles after laughing at another naive and overly optimistic post made by that same old naive and overly optimistic fan, who's been shamelessly attempting to interrupt their analogies for the last couple of years... :D

Or Jon is just touring until he can afford to buy an NFL team. Having no Richie is good, because he would have to pay Phil considerably less.

Stop the presses. When did this turn into a Jon regained his voice VS No he didn't

He hasn't. He won't. He might sound better than his worse 2013 but that's because you can actually understand what he says. But even 2013 semi-decent levels are absolutely unattainable. He can (and should) only improve his stage presence. When he did it for a couple of shows it made a huge difference for a lot of people, myself included, and made the songs bearable. But his voice is finished. Singing a good note here and there or even stringing a few decent songs together in the same night when the rest is dreadful is not a sign of improvement.

And what's up with the wishful thinking “I wish they did acoustic songs, I wish this and that rare songs were played” Do you realize that Jon would butcher those even worse because they are outside his comfort zone (he can't go through the motions of singing them every night)? Singing acoustic requires an attitude, a power behind the voice that has nothing to do with high notes but everything to do with having a good voice otherwise it would be plain boring. Same with anything they are not playing regularly. Any rocker would turn into a shout fest, any uptempo song would be a mix between whispered verses with missing words and shouted chorus and any ballad, well, there's the one he did in NYE as proof.

I'm all for listening to anything different, but it's naive to think that an easy song would automatically fix things. I love/like 80% of THINFS and after the promo shows I was hopeful that the live version would be solid, hearing real instruments and such. But they only got worse. They drag on and on. And that's his comfort zone, those are songs engineered for what's left of his voice. And I can count decent performances of any of them with the fingers of one hand.

Sad to say, but you hit the nail right on the head.

I'm more and more turning from an optimist into a pessimist regarding my faith in Jon as a performer and especially as a singer. On one hand, I'll be extremely happy if he managed to sustain the energy he showed in Rio and Sao Paulo even semi-regularly this year, but on the other hand, after reading all these statements, I realized he probably won't. I guess it's pretty safe to assume that there's more of shit like this to come:

https://youtu.be/-ixPjmh4PdE

Please, somebody, post some vids of Bon Jovi at their peak for the sake of my mental stability. I'm about to burst into tears once again...

PS. Dominik, don't you dare to pick on me and my thoughts about JBJ this time, or I'll come and force you to watch the Dusseldorf 2011 show five times in a row with no piss breaks in between! Actually, to make things worse, I'll put the video onto 0.25 speed on the last round and tie you to a kitchen chair, break your throne & cut your hair at the same time... :D

Legendary performance and definitely the best of Living In Sin. Near the end on the high screams I think Jon goes even higher than the album version! Oh man, it's heartbeaking to see what he could to back then and to see now now he struggles on Who Says, Rollercoaster...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=1575s&v=rImCaB_Srek

Great concert with some of the best versions of Dry County and BOR ever! Amazing energy and I believe that Apri was the peak for the band in terms of live performances!