Go on about it all you want Dawn, I don't believe in such a thing as 'faith' for myself, just like you do, we are entitled to our own opinions right? If I fail something I try again, and try harder. I don't put some word on it and say 'Oh I have faith I can do it this time' because I don't know if I can, I just try, and try, and try. I don't need to have some magical hope to propel myself, the reward at the end of it all is enough for me. If you need that, then believe in it, but not all of us need to believe in these magical forces in order to have a happy life.

You might find this interesting

Gene Roddenberry, the legendary creator of Star Trek, was born in El Paso, Texas, in 1921. He studied law, then switched to aeronautical engineering and trained as a pilot. In 1941 he volunteered for the US Army Air Corps, and won medals for bombing missions from Guadalcanal. After the war he became a pilot for Pan Am. After seeing television for the first time, he decided to become a TV writer, but when he found no openings, he joined the Los Angeles Police Department and rose to sergeant. He wrote TV scripts in his spare time, then went freelance.

He was the chief writer for several TV series before launching Star Trek in 1966.

Roddenberry became anti-religious at an early age. As a youth he attended Baptist church, but it was not till he was sixteen that he began to pay any real attention to what the sermons were saying:

I remember complete astonishment because what they were talking about were things that were just crazy. It was Communion time where you eat this wafer and you are eating the body of Christ and drinking His blood. My first impression was "Jesus Christ, this is a bunch of cannibals they've put me down among . . . I guess from that time it was clear to me that religion as largely nonsense, was largely magical, superstitious things. [Alexander pp 36- 37.]

Roddenberry might not have accepted the label pantheist readily. He thought of himself as a humanist. In 1986 joined the American Humanist Association, and in 1991 he was awarded the AHA's Humanist Arts Award.

Certainly Star Trek shows no signs of pantheism. The religious message Roddenberry puts across in the series is a humanist one. It is almost always critical of alien religions, which are usually disguised Earth faiths.

In Who mourns for Adonais, the Enterprise picks up signals of an unknown life form near the planet Pollux IV of Beta Geminorum system. This turns out to be the God Apollo - a man-shaped entity with an extra organ in his chest, through which he could channel extraordinary energies. After retiring here from Earth, Apollo missed the adoration he had from the Greeks. He tries to force the Enterprise crew to worship him as a God. When they refuse, he dissolves himself into the wind.

The film Star Trek: Final Frontier tackles a similar theme. In revolt against Vulcan rationalism, Spock's brother Sybok hijacks the Enterprise and heads for the planet Sha Ka Ree near the galactic centre, where he believes the Creator lives. But this "God" turns out to be a tyrannical old man who kills anyone who doesn't do exactly what he says. It was a bold theme, since "God" was very similar to Moses' idea of Yahweh. This was a film which started up without Roddenberry, and which Roddenberry opposed - but actually it embodies the typical Star Trek humanist theology.

In The Way to Eden Spock discovers the planet Eden, which at first sight appears a place of beauty and peace, but on investigation turns out to have vegetation impregnated with deadly acids.

In The Apple, the inhabitants of Gamma Trianguli VI worship the God Vaal, which appears as the gigantic face of a snake-like reptile with burning eyes. Vaal provides an idyllic life for the people in exchange for fuel to power its energy systems. Vaal's priest Akuta wears antennae on his head so he can hear commands from the machine. The Enterprise crew discover that Vaal is a computer-controlled machine and destroy it with a blast of phaser fire, thus liberating the locals from their debilitating subservience to a cruel deity (but violating the Prime Directive in a very cavalier manner).

The Next Generation Episode Justice presents an almost identical theme. The Edos on the planet Rubicun III live a child-like, hedonistic life, worshipping a "God" which turns out to be a multi-dimensional life form in a transparent spaceship orbiting the planet. Despite the Prime Directive, the Enterprise crew question and then violate Edo law, and show one of their leaders the spaceship which is the visible form of "God." At least they respect the directive enough to leave without liberating the Edos from their superstition - though they have probably done enough to start a dissident faction among the Edos.

In Star Trek, religious mythologies and supernatural phenomena almost always have scientific explanations. Alien gods are never really supernatural - their powers are always explained by exo-biology or by mechanical devices. Indeed `gods' are often malevolent or egotistical. When they are benevolent, they usually turn their worshippers into mindless or childlike zombies. Add this message up, and it is amazing that Roddenberry managed to slip so much past the censor.

Everything in Roddenberry's universe was not all reason and science, however. Several Star Trek episodes suggest the possibility that souls could live on after the body has died, or might be separated from bodies, or might be capable of telepathy. In What Are Little Girls Made Of Roger Korby transfers his soul into the body of an android, while several episodes involve people swapping souls (Return to Tomorrow, Turnabout Intruder).

It is clear that Roddenberry felt a fairly deep hostility to organized religions, to transcendental gods and supernatural powers, though he seems to have acknowledged the civilizing mission of Christianity in Bread and Circuses, where the "Children of the Son" refuse to participate in gladiatorial combats.

However, it's equally clear that Roddenberry really was a pantheist, of an unsystematized but intelligence-centred kind verging on the pan-psychic variety (see Varieties of pantheism).

It seems a pity that, as far as I am aware, he never made an episode that embodied the pantheistic viewpoint. Ask yourself honestly what kind of religion Starfleet staff would follow in the twenty third and twenty fourth centuries, confronted as they are weekly with the multiplicity of life-forms which the universe spawns.

Imagine a real Star Trek in the real future. Ask yourself honestly, and quite independently of Roddenberry's views and of the humanist slant of Star Trek. Would they believe in a God who was supremely concerned only with humans? Would they believe in a God that became human and died to save humans? Would they believe in a last judgement of humans, or a magically transformed earth after the resurrection?

Would they be atheists, believing that all the awesome mystery and beauty of the universe was cold and hostile and utterly meaningless? Would they be Buddhists, convinced that it was all an empty illusion?

Or would they worship the universe as the only real divinity? Would they be pantheists?

Pantheism is the best religion for the age of the Hubble Space Telescope. Find out if you're a pantheist. Check out Scientific Pantheism as soon as you've read this page.

Quotations are from David Alexander, Star Trek Creator Roc, New York, 1994; and Terrance Sweeney, God &, Winston Press, Minneapolis, 1985.

I dont mind if you want to call God Sam , its a nice name :D

God has been accounted for on many occasions, read the bible and see all of the accounts. I account for God's presence in my life every day.

Dawn

why do you keep trying then ? What is your basis for trying again and again, if you really believed you couldnt do it and had no faith then you wouldnt try.


Dawn

lol could you just not have summed that up with the last 3 paragraphs?. Any it makes a few good points but the question is who says God is only interested in humans? who says there is intelligent life out there to have a star trek future?

Interesting Russ... a lot of programmes are based on religious theories, I think it is because it relates so much to fundamental nature and the good old book.

Beam me up Scotty, or in my case God :D

Dawn

I didn't say that I couldn't do it - I said I didn't know, which is very different. I try because I want to do it, I don't know if I can, but I aim for something, to reach something at the end of it. I don't need to tell myself that I can do it because, if I don't know if I can, that is just a waste of time, and that sort of self confidence thing doesn't work for me. I try my hardest regardless, if I kept telling myself "You can do it, you can do it" I'd not only waste my time worrying, but it'd probably put more stress on me anyway.

the bible does not account for god, snowwhite can't account for the 7 dwarfs can't she?
And how can you account for God daily without being fictional?

Probably never understand though

are you saying that the events in the bible didnt happen? were is your prove? you cant make statements without proof to back it up. if you want to argue points back them up are you just become useless in a debate.

Can you prove Jesus araised from his death?
Sorry that's the only fact I can think of right now, it's friday night, don't have responsibilities at the moment so am in a state wich isn't supported by most religions :)

Anyhow where is the proof of some of the essential stuff of the bible, Jesus being son of god & excistence of god?

So to answer your question, Yes I'm saying events (at least most essential) didn't happen.

I do believe Jesus existed, was hanged on cross etc etc. I do also believe he wasn't known as son of god at that moment and wasn't untill 300 years later..
The latter one I can proof - though the source is probably just as reliable as the bible