freedom of speech......
 

this board does not allow it, who are to you to police my voice and opinions!!!!!!!!

This isn't a public space, it's a privately owned message board.

Freedom of speech is the concept of being able to speak freely without censorship. It is often regarded as an integral concept in modern liberal democracies. The right to freedom of speech is guaranteed under international law through numerous human rights instruments, notably under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, although implementation remains lacking in many countries. The synonymous term freedom of expression is sometimes preferred, since the right is not confined to verbal speech but is understood to protect any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

When you signed up to be a member of this board, you agreed to Peter's rules which state the following:

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

Heya,

i just signed up to the board after reading and browsing it for a couple of hours. I think what Kev might refer to is that ppl is almost not allowed to have a negative opinion about the band inhere, without getting bashed by other forum members and fans. Of course one has to write in a proper language like the quoting rule says. But since its a message board, one is also allowed to have opinions that might not suit majority of people here.

I was kinda shocked to read a few of the "critizism" threads on the board and in every single case, people either started:

- posting patronizing comments trying to make the poster look like a fool
- finding excuses that would make the band and/or member look good instead
- posting other irrelevant and wannabe-funny comments to remove focus and ruin the thread

No doubt there are many hardcore fans inhere. Unfortunately some of them have a hard time accepting that not all is good, and some cant realize that negative critism is also allowed on a discussion board, as long as its well-written and sober.

My thoughts, almost exactly.

Was this post meant for backstage? :? This forum is one of the most accepting of criticism towards the band and the music. If you look you'll see plenty of negative here, and that is very much 'allowed' because we all realise that not everyone is a blind follower. If you like that then apparently Backstage is full of nothing but nice reviews and positive comments. Here, however, you'll find your fair share of negative.

This is what I thought. The person posting must be joking. Even BJ knows and has said this is the most critical BJ messageboard out there.. we speak the trusth.

Dawn

Yeah, you have the wrong board. Have you even bothered to read the BJ forums? If so, I think you would realize that your post doesn't make much sense. :? We are a VERY critical bunch around here.

If you read my original post, you'd see that I'm new to this board and only spent a couple of hours on it before signing up and writing this post. I hope I've just been unlucky finding these negative posts so cut me some slack, please ok :)

About the Backstage board...i havent visited that board for years, because it was impossible to write my opinion inthere without getting bashed immediately. I dont know how it is now, but I just found out it requires signing up even to just read the board, so I wont be bothered to do that yet.

However, I think i AM right in some of what I wrote in my original post. Namely that...often a negative post here receives a lot of "smart" off-topic replies that ruins the thread. I just read and participated in a thread where ppl simply took over a thread because they didnt like the posters grammar/spelling. Extremely inpolite and totally against the ethical non-written rule saying that spelling- and grammar errors shouldnt be pointed out and absolutely not be bashed.

Besides, please dont misinterpret my post. I didnt write that everyone acts this way everytime a negative post appears. I wrote that SOME hardcore fans do it and that i've read "a few" of the critisism threads.

But I'm glad to hear that critisism IS accepted widely on this board. This piece of news might get me to participate more in the future :)

Maybe you shouldn't critizise untill you've read some more then?

Me pointing out bad language had nothing to do with the "negative" post. You should've read the entire thread to see that I actually said I don't see what the fuss is about if Jon refuses to sign an autograph.

Ice

Well I wouldnt say that I critisized anyone specific here. I merely stated my point of view about the subject and how its often seen that some hardcore fans react ridiculously on a messageboard. And it is kinda remarkable that the first 4-5 threads I read...all turns out the way I wrote in my first post in this thread.

You're right. You didnt reply to a negative post. You kinda converted the post into a negative one by going off-topic with a minor issue that majority has no problem with.

Jon refusing to sign an autograph...i dont see the fuss either. But he could at least have spoken more nicely ;)

that is not entirely true. Some Mods have their own interpertation of that. Next to that they aren't consequent, wich makes the whole 'rule-policy' thing unreliable.

That's debatable. There are many here who agree with me, but just choose to keep a lower profile about it. You can find many posts about it.

Ice

Rane, I wouldn't speak for the majority. From what I see, the majority appreciate it when people use proper grammar. A mistake here and there is one thing, but when people make a mess of entire paragraphs, it makes it really difficult to understand what they are trying to say.

if a persons post is difficult to read and understand then members should ignore the post rather than be so critical. With no response the person will soon not post.

I find it difficult to read swear words and this has a negative effect on a post and what the person is really trying to say, so what should I do post commenting on every swear word !!!!!!! I would be here all day , in order to remain a part of this forum I have had to learn to accept and ignore people swearing, this is difficult when I dont agree with it .

Bad grammar should be accepted and ignored in the same manner .... I thought this was a tolerate board towards people from all walks of life including their grammar base !

Dawn

Who's to define what words are 'swear' words? Some people might see words like crap or damn to be 'swear' words, others might see bloody or bastard, or shit, ****, arse - it all depends on what you think? Why should specific words be dis-allowed just because some people are 'offended' by them? Why can't I say shit instead of pooh, or use any other 'swear' word in a context if I think it fits what I'm trying to express?

Re using swear words in a context , I get the pooh and shit... they mean the same thing... however the meaNing of the f word is not used in context on this board !

If you cant say it to a policeman or it is not allowed in the media/press then its a swear word !

Dawn

Context is important of course. If someone perhaps said something and I replied 'That is ****ing stupid' then it could be fine in context, but if I used it as an insult to say 'You ****ing idiot' then perhaps not - but any insult, regardless of words, shouldn't really be allowed.

What if I make up some words instead of ****, shit, cunt etc? They would mean exactly the same, but no-one would have heard them because I'd be making them up, right?

Reminds me of an episode of the Jim Henson show 'Dinosaurs' from years ago. Of course as a kid it was just funny to watch, but it did carry messages too. The one I refer to is when the word 'smoo' is used on TV and the baby picks it up and starts using it, and they are all shocked, because they say it is a 'dirty' word, meaning the dirt on the bottom of a dinosaurs feet. It's done very well, pointing out just how stupid it is to be 'offended' by a simple word.

I remember that show :) I even remember lecturing my kids that there are no bad words - just bad intentions.

Kathleen

There was another great episode where the boy asked a teacher "where did we come from?" and they didn't know, so they held a competition for who could come up with the best reason for the universe, and the winner was something to do with a giant potato. It was then written out with rules and laws, and anyone who didn't believe it was burned to death. It's out on DVD I think, I might get it :D

I've said "****" to a policeman many times and it's used in the media all the time.

Ice

Im sure there is, and those people are the nice mature people ignoring the grammar and respecting the posters thread. But fact still remains tho...your post was way off-topic and not nice.

I'm following you completely. In this case, I just thought it was pretty clear what the poster was trying to say and thus I wouldnt call the post "a mess" altho it perhaps could have been displayed better.

What I'm annoyed at... is how some people react to a "supposedly messy" post, playing forumcops who needs to make an appearance to show people, they're betterknowing, more clever etc. And it certainly aint helping that the same forumcop later in the thread starts indicating that the poster is a loser with no future ahead of him/her.

The person who made the post that started all this was not only an English person, but apparently a writer - so it was pure lazyness on their part and nothing more. No-one is trying to be a 'forumcop' here, it's just common courtesy to each other to type messages in a fashion which can be easily understood.

Just as well as its common courtesy to reply in a nice way. Whether the poster is native-english + writer or not, doesnt give people the right to be rude, go off-topic and ruin the thread. Send the poster a personal message instead of taking the "fight" to the board.

If a person is so lazy as to type out a full post in such an illegible fashion, why should they expect anyone to be nice to them? No-one here would pull up a person who was making mistakes by accident, be it that they weren't a native English speaker or whatever else, it's only when someone obviously can communicate but chooses not to that this sort of debate begins.

"in such an illegible fashion". I thought this part is way overexaggerated. As other people also pointed out, they could read and understand it fine. I see you and Iceman shares the opinion that if someone is lazy, its ok to be rude with them. Tsk tsk...

Maybe, but it takes more effort to understand it. It would be far simpler if the person posting put in the extra effort to type in English and not in txt, then everyone would be happy. You don't hear people complaining about a person using English too well.

Damn right! They are being rude by choosing to be lazy, so they will get nothing else from me.

Now whos the lazy ones then? ;-) (takes more effort to understand a post) By your logic I should be really rude to you too now ;-)

I totally disagree. Being lazy in THIS exact way can NEVER be considered rude in my opinion. Now if someone on purpose walked slooowly in front of me in a supermarket queue...THAT would be rude to me.

If your bank sent you a statement and it was all in txt language, or you got a formal letter from someone and it was written like that, would you consider it rude? If so, why not a messageboard? Just because it's the Internet doesn't give a person the excuse to be lazy. Yes, you might just suggest I ignore people who do that - but if we always did that and never said anything then the whole board would descend into that crap. I'd rather this forum, which has been a great community through which many of us have made good friends, be presented in a way that would have new visitors think we are nice, intelligent people, and not lazy idiots.

Honestly, I wouldnt consider your examples rude - just plain weak. I'd certainly not write back in a smartass kinda way, pointing out the senders grammar errors. Nevertheless its not the same as a messageboard where peoples freedom of speech arent as limited as formal statements or letters from banks etc.

By ignoring posts like this, the poster automatically finds out that his/her threads arent being read/commented, probably because of the the way he/she wrote the initial post.

My point is..no matter if the initial post is lazy, un-userfriendly to read etc or not....theres really no reason to ruin a perfectly relevant thread because of such little things. And yes I call this a "little thing" as I honestly didnt think it was that badly written.

Dont make a fuzz buddy im also have a bad grammar ...:mrgreen: and if nobody will listen to you and your sad about... im all ears buddy..PM me;)

Bad grammar and no brains that's all what Mookie is. We are still waiting here for the WinterBBQ, you greedy bastard.

Actually Iceman and Thomas should PM you to correct your grammar - it doesnt bother me ;)

It's the same thing. It's called common courtesy. If you're dumb enough not to consider other people, be it on a message board or in a supermarket, you deserve to be told about it. If you're a retard or otherhow impaired, then it's a different thing, but that's usually obvious straight off the bat. If you're not... well, you reap what you sow.

Ice

But it's not just because it's the Internet ... you'd expect a formal email to be written properly as well. But this isn't a formal situation. Its just like how I would adopt different ways of speaking when, for example, attending a job interview, as opposed to when I'm just talking to friends. It's rather like you talking to someone in an informal situation, and them saying to you "I don't like the way you talk, I demand you talk in a formal manner or else I won't talk to you any more". Would you obey them, or would your response be "who the hell are you to tell me how to talk?!"?

When I , and other users on this board that don't have English as a first language can write and communicate better in English than someone who has English as their first language then that person is lame.

And come to think of it this makes complete sense aswell.

I think I remember the post you guys are talking about but I'm not sure.

There is a big difference between formal and colloquial speaking and this type of writing. It'd be like a person abbreviating their words in normal speech and mis-pronouncing words.