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-   -   2008 US Election (https://drycounty.com/jovitalk/showthread.php?t=45105)

Mousebounce 09-11-2008 04:47 AM
Quote:
he's needlessly (and intentionally might i add) started confrontations with russia and iran
There are no easy answers to these questions.

On the one hand you don't want Iran to build nukes for obvious reasons, but Iraq did send a message that the US will only attack countries who can't defend themselves. Ex. North Korea If history has taught us anything, putting your head in the sand can lead to dangerous consequences. Tough choice.

Iraq was a mistake and you can never justify the loss of soldiers lives there. On the other side Al Queda has been weakened while fighting there and again there hasn't been an attack on American soil since 9/11. Coincidence or not?

Russia- Georgia has been a huge ally to us, so you can't just sit back and do nothing. On the other hand, they aren't completely innocent either.

I don't see things as black and white/right or wrong. It is just a matter of seeing both sides.

In the end, McCain isn't Bush, just like Obama isn't Clinton. Same party but different people with hopefully a different way of doing things.

ponrauil 09-11-2008 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mousebounce
Iraq was a mistake and you can never justify the loss of soldiers lives there. On the other side Al Queda has been weakened while fighting there and again there hasn't been an attack on American soil since 9/11. Coincidence or not?
One could also argue that there is no need for Al Quaeda to carry out other attacks on US soil. They've already achieved their goal getting the US to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq. And they have not been weakened, not one bit.


Ponrauil

jbjhand 09-11-2008 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi (Post 876939)
and yet here we're discussing mccain's shall we say ever so right wing leanings again....

the "maverick" is nothing more than a shill for the gop. i'm actually half convinced his "we're going to run the scoundrels out of washington" angle is really just some huge sociological experiment to see how gullible the average american is.

once again, and i say this with every ounce of sincerity in my body (as a former total true blue thatcherite that kathleen amongst others will confirm if you don't remember yourself) after close to 10 years of an absolute joke of an administration why are the replublicans even in the running for this election?

forget your partisan bullshit, forget obama this or mccain that, LOOK at the party that has been running the show for the last 8 years, the party that has been running the greatest nation on earth into the ground for 10 years and give me ONE and only one good reason why anyone in their right mind with an objective head and heart would vote for these conmen, there crooks, these liars, deceptors and deviants?....

it really does not compute on this side of the pond how you could give a party who has ****ed up time and time again, mislead time and time again and outright lied time and time again another 4 years of running the show just because the man in charge has a pair of tits as his second in command and tells everyone he's a maverick, he's different and he's going to get rid of the scum in washington.

Well said lol :D

Mousebounce 09-11-2008 06:20 PM
Quote:
They've already achieved their goal getting the US to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Their goal is to kill, and you can't honestly think that it hasn't been attempted here since 9/11. Bush is an idiot. I don't disagree. But he has managed to keep it off of US soil thus far.

Jim Bon Jovi 09-11-2008 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mousebounce (Post 876997)
Their goal is to kill, and you can't honestly think that it hasn't been attempted here since 9/11. Bush is an idiot. I don't disagree. But he has managed to keep it off of US soil thus far.
in the last 7 years al qaeda have killed more americans than they did on 9/11

Jim Bon Jovi 09-11-2008 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathleen (Post 876948)
Well - I gotta say Jim - it just goes to show that an education wasn't wasted on you. Yes - you believed all those things a few years ago - and you either learned better or saw better by demonstration of living conditions.
i wouldn't even say it was the education. when i 1st started uni and even well into the 2nd half of the course i was sick to the teeth of "socialists" prattling on about the bourgeoise' and proletariat.

it was travelling that turned me around. seeing new cultures and meeting people from all over the world opened my eyes to the fact the little englander mentality is a stupid, misguided and downright wrong one.

BeExcellent 09-11-2008 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi (Post 876939)
and yet here we're discussing mccain's shall we say ever so right wing leanings again....

the "maverick" is nothing more than a shill for the gop. i'm actually half convinced his "we're going to run the scoundrels out of washington" angle is really just some huge sociological experiment to see how gullible the average american is.

once again, and i say this with every ounce of sincerity in my body (as a former total true blue thatcherite that kathleen amongst others will confirm if you don't remember yourself) after close to 10 years of an absolute joke of an administration why are the replublicans even in the running for this election?

forget your partisan bullshit, forget obama this or mccain that, LOOK at the party that has been running the show for the last 8 years, the party that has been running the greatest nation on earth into the ground for 10 years and give me ONE and only one good reason why anyone in their right mind with an objective head and heart would vote for these conmen, there crooks, these liars, deceptors and deviants?....

it really does not compute on this side of the pond how you could give a party who has ****ed up time and time again, mislead time and time again and outright lied time and time again another 4 years of running the show just because the man in charge has a pair of tits as his second in command and tells everyone he's a maverick, he's different and he's going to get rid of the scum in washington.
It's the saddest thing to realise how many Americans look up to that shit.

Godknows a crappy leader often rules a decent, honest people, but for the same party to be invited back time and again speaks badly of countless millions of individuals.

The Times yesterday stated 80% of American mothers approve of Palin. Are there really only 20% who can actually ****ing think independtly? I really am starting to believe so. Even if you think Obama's unqualified/naive/whatever, forgodsake, spoil your ballot, vote Green. Anything.

Jim: post of the year.

Jim Bon Jovi 09-11-2008 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeExcellent (Post 877042)

Jim: post of the year.
possible JT award at the end of the year? :D

i jest. i did get really worked up about this last night. i have friends both in real life and over the web and it pains me to see their country sold down the shitter by the oblivious masses. on another politics board i post on it's VERY partisan and as soon as i mentioned i have a polisci and history degree including a shitload of stuff of geopolitics, IR, global terrorism and politics of the US these people round on me as if i'm some elitist wanker with no real life experience.

it seems they genuinely have an issue with people who are informed on the matters of which they are not.

Kathleen 09-11-2008 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi (Post 876939)
forget your partisan bullshit, forget obama this or mccain that, LOOK at the party that has been running the show for the last 8 years, the party that has been running the greatest nation on earth into the ground for 10 years and give me ONE and only one good reason why anyone in their right mind with an objective head and heart would vote for these conmen, there crooks, these liars, deceptors and deviants?....

it really does not compute on this side of the pond how you could give a party who has ****ed up time and time again, mislead time and time again and outright lied time and time again another 4 years of running the show just because the man in charge has a pair of tits as his second in command and tells everyone he's a maverick, he's different and he's going to get rid of the scum in washington.
These two paragraphs are the crux of the argument. Which is why McCain is running (ostensibly) as a maverick or an independent AGAINST the Republican Party. The trouble is, he may sound like an independent sometimes but he has voted right down the line with the Republican Party all along. Right now, when running for election, it suits his purposes to distance himself from the last 8 years. Even he must realize that some people are not going to vote for 4 more years of the same.

Kathleen 09-11-2008 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bon Jovi (Post 876939)
forget your partisan bullshit, forget obama this or mccain that, LOOK at the party that has been running the show for the last 8 years, the party that has been running the greatest nation on earth into the ground for 10 years and give me ONE and only one good reason why anyone in their right mind with an objective head and heart would vote for these conmen, there crooks, these liars, deceptors and deviants?....

it really does not compute on this side of the pond how you could give a party who has ****ed up time and time again, mislead time and time again and outright lied time and time again another 4 years of running the show just because the man in charge has a pair of tits as his second in command and tells everyone he's a maverick, he's different and he's going to get rid of the scum in washington.
These two paragraphs are the crux of the argument. Which is why McCain is running (ostensibly) as a maverick or an independent AGAINST the Republican Party. The trouble is, he may sound like an independent sometimes but he has voted right down the line with the Republican Party all along. Right now, when running for election, it suits his purposes to distance himself from the last 8 years. Even he must realize that some people are not going to vote for 4 more years of the same.


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