I would find (even more) cause not to vote for McCain & her only on those grounds. If their vision of a better America is many more girls ending up like Bristol Palin - pregnant at 17 and married because of that at that same age - then there is something very wrong. Not every 17-year-old pregnant girl has a mother with a considerable paycheck (as I guess Sarah Palin has) or a boyfriend willing to tie the knot or be there for her. With their politics they can just as soon start scraping for social benefits as a lot of people are going to need them.

Personally, I find it highly amusing that she should be preaching about abstinence, etc. while she has a walking example at home - not just a figure on paper - of something being wrong with that 'system' (or lack thereof).

Do people think obama will win? how much of an issue will the colour of his skin be ? is enough of America ready to elect a black president?

That's a hard one Lee. Where I live (Northern New Jersey) I only see Obama stickers on cars and in people's yards. I can honestly say - and I have recently driven to Boston and down to southern Jersey - that I have not seen one single McCain poster or bumper sticker in this area at all.

Where my Mother lives (in Southern California) she says that all she see are McCain supporters.

Quite honestly, if pushed up against a wall - I don't think Obama will win. I think the lies and smear campaign against him is a vicious as it is because he is black (it's interesting how being half-black doesn't seem to count the same as being half-Italian as I am). I will bet that the vast middle and south of this country will not support him or vote for him - and that both coasts will.

I guess time will tell.

Sorry to be so late and please don't let this post interrupt the ongoing discussion.

Indeed, around 80% of the Germans would vote for Obama, and around 10% for McCain while the rest are either undecided or don't give a damn. It's different about politicians.

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/Ob...art270,2568738

That's an article from the most leftist mainstream paper in Germany (I love reading leftist news as it's easier to spot their bias).

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/debatt...567826,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/debatt...568023,00.html

Another leftist paper. Don't make me go through WELT in order to find critical voices.
Funny enough, the only statement from a CSU-related politician is from Edmund Stoiber and he is definitely pro-Obama. However, this is only because he teases the actual leadership of the CSU. They got rid of him in something that reminded me of a Coup D'Etat and he is still not over it. Then again, German conservatives are very nationalistic too, and I am sure they spot in Obama a weak link. Who the hell doesn't. And I say it again, external politics are different. As a great Republican President put it, Teddy Roosevelt, in international politics it's all about "speaking softly but carrying a big stick". Obama seems to shout, but everybody knows the "big stick" is missing.

Hey!!! I love Der Spiegel!!! Leftist huh? lol.

Thanks for posting the links.


honestly, you are the only one I've ever heard that would call Obama 'weak'. He has certainly not shown any sign of this as far as I am concerned. Just because someone isn't a warmonger doesn't mean they are weak. Perhaps I am not understanding what you are refering to...

In Oregon and Washington it's all Obama. In both states he drew record crowds at speeches and, like Kathleen, I hardly see any McCain stickers.

In Alaska it is much more McCain, but I don't see much support either way actually. But I am only in the city of Anchorage, not the rural areas.


I do think that America is indeed ready for a black president - more so than for a woman president. If he loses the election, I don't think it is because of the color of his skin, but because people are stupid and too easily flattered by McCains 'rar rar US rar rar we are great rar rar family values rar rar US is the best' talks. Whereas Obama makes people think a bit more and doesn't tend to state the obvious.


Ok, here is my favorite about McCain: He voted against greater availability of college education for military personnel. The reason he gave - and he was VERY proud of his analysis and the crowd roared - was that to have an effective military, we need to retain our personnel. If we give them options, such as education - they will leave the military!!!!

Insanity! The crowd gobbled it up and was smitten cause it is so pro-american. While Obama voted for more options and college education for the men and women who served in active duty. Somehow that is not american.

all the time. But I am mortal. You are not.

:)

This - above all - is reprehensible. If there had not been a GI Bill in 1968 when my husband and I got married - neither of us would have the education that we have now. Those few hundred dollars a month allowed us to start our university education as long as we both worked part time. These days we are both civil engineers and have paid lots of taxes to the government for 35 years.

An educated population is far more desirable (in my opinion) than people who are afrad to leave the military because they can't get a job without an education. And I personally don't consider that stand pro- American - if anything it's anti-family and anti-american.

You know, I'm glad we are seeing things on the same page. :) On the issue of race, it's going to be there, always. In this case though, all I hear is the fact that he won't win because he's black. Give me a ****ing break. The people that say that don't realize that he's HALF-WHITE!!! Stubborn people in Southern state can't see that so the deep south is all about McCain. Like Kathleen said, she says a lot of Obama where she lives. The north is quite liberal for the most part so I'm not surprised there. If he is going to win, which I think he will... He needs to concentrate on the swing states. More so, the states that CAN go his way. Colorado, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and they are saying Ohio maybe. Colorado has been a state that has gone either or as of late. New Mexico can go for Obama because of the support of Bill Richardson. Pennsylvania and Ohio have the opportunity because of blue-collar workers. It's going to be interesting to see if Obama can really reach out to those people, and if those people can look past him being HALF-BLACK. If anyone listened to Bill Richardson speak at the DNC, he had one of the cheesiest lines that I thought it was hilarious though. "John McCain can spend hundreds of dollars on his shoes, but we're the ones that are going to have to pay for his flip-flops." I know that has nothing to do with what I just said, but man... I laughed so hard.

Ryan

Of course. But then *you* immediately came to the conclusion it was wrong when pointed out. (and yet, I'm still really surprised your instant reaction was 'dead on'. Even though I do see you as mortal :))

Maria, did he really say that? That the military shouldn't receive more education? Isn't he basically saying you gotta be really stupid when you do enter the military? :?

Love your new sig btw, Auré.

You girls need to get your facts straight. I'm kind of confused about by mortalness now.

And yeah I love my new sig too :)


Ponrauil

Maria is just in denial (and I can't say I blame her for that), oh mortal one.

Let's subtely get back on topic.

Speaking of mortals, can McCain actually last 4 years?


Ponrauil

:)

Why not? Bush did. Twice.

Yeah but he was 18 years younger than McCain is today when he first was about to (not) be elected.


Ponrauil

Hmm, didn't think of that - he sure is old then. Will he be the oldest president at his inauguration?

Ah, nevermind that. Google's my friend :)

According to CBS, yes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2397926.shtml


Ponrauil

See the good sides of that. If he doesn't make the full 4 years, America will have its first ever female President :D

Aloha !

And a pretty shit one too, I don't see how that would be a good thing.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

And of course she's got all it takes... :)


Ponrauil

Aloha !

Yeah well she does have great tits.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

All it takes and more! Anyway, not long ago, McCain had stated that he would never run for vice-president as that is a pointless job. The Vice-President plays no political role whatsoever and was invented to attract some votes. Just as an example, the term "gerrymandering" was coined after the name of a democratic vice-president and that's one of the "greatest" achievements of a vice-president that I even know of. McCain acted accordingly. He appointed a woman to get some of Hillary's votes. Got no clue whether that was smart or not but at least he had a firm position on the issue from the beginning. As to Joe Biden, I do think he is an excellent politician with a lot of influence in the NATO and very very well known in Europe. However, we all know what he thinks of Obama. The same that every politician in Europe probably thinks of him. I don't want to repeat myself though.

Presidents don't really do much anyway other than declare war and both the candidates suck.

This attitude is what drives me nuts Maria. Why is someone "stupid" for liking McCain. I would never think to belittle someone for liking Obama. I may not agree with your choice, but to insult someone's intelligence for not favoring the same candidate as you is a bit extreme and immature. We may not all have the same opinions, but the great thing is that we do have a choice.

in all fairness he is pretty much bush mkII and if people haven't sussed out what a cretin bush is in the past 8 years then maybe they aren't the sharpest...

Obama is no saint either. I could go online and cut and paste crap against him too, but what is the point? It is the choice between the evil you do know and the evil you don't know. I would never call someone stupid for supporting a particular candidate. There is no excuse for that on either side.

I agree BUT - the Republican ticket is anti-choice and anti-education. You are a teacher and you have a daughter - how do you reconcile that?

I was trying to remember if Mouse was a teacher. It comes back to me now. My guess is that the negatives of McCain aren't quite as bad as the negatives of Obama. Pretty simple. I'm not keen on gay marriage nor do I think abortions or choice is always correct, but those negatives are far better that some of McCain's negatives. I think that's why I get frustrated with my fiance. The first thing she looks at when choosing a candidate is if the candidate is pro-choice or "pro-life" as they say. She automatically passes the candidate off if they are pro-choice. I don't know... I just can't stand that.

Ryan

Anyone watching McCain tonight??? This biographical video is the cheesiest thing I've ever seen. I'm sorry but it was bad.

Ryan

Honestly Kathleen, where do the Democrats pour money into education? They put it all towards the poorer districts. My district didn't receive any benefits under Clinton or Bush. Walk into my classroom and it is from the stone ages. Go to Elizabeth and they have a TV and computers in every single room. All the technology you could ask for is at their fingertips. Don't get me wrong, I think that is great for them, but we didn't see any significant changes in schooling under Clinton or Bush. No Child Left Behind is a joke, but did it change things? Not really. Administrators find ways around it and it is business as usual. Politicians, all of them, focus on the districts in need, not realizing we are ALL in need and all could use some improvement.

Anti-Choice, I am totally against that. Abortion has been legal since 1973. I honestly don't think that will change.

It is funny you should pose these questions to me as a teacher. A colleague discussed the election with me yesterday. She asked if I was a Republican. My response is that I am Independent, but tend to sway towards the right. She told me not to mention that at school because most teachers, like herself, are Democrats. I suppose in her mind we aren't allowed to have differing opinions without being persecuted for them. I would never criticize or think less of a colleague due to what party they vote for. Honestly, I wanted to tell her that a great deal of my colleagues are also voting Republican this election, but after her comment, I realized there would be no point.

This year I have received the most substantial raise in my ten years of teaching along with more supplies and materials than prior years. Could things be better? They always can as I have stated in the first paragraph, but we, meaning my students and self, are not suffering.

Perhaps because you are male the abortion issue simply doesn't hit home with you the way it does a female. Any male politician (or female politician for that matter) that supposes to tell me what I may do with my own body hits a very basic survival nerve (my survival). I make my choices - no one else has the right to.

The same goes for the birth control issue. You males simply never had to worry about it historically speaking. So now the Republican party tries to stop teenagers from using birth control by cutting funding to schools that teach sex ed and not abstinence - who does that hurt more? The male partner or the teenage girl that winds up pregnant. And then she can't get an abortion. Who do these laws serve - certainly not us females.

And if any one of them read any history they would realize that teaching abstinence has been going on for centuries - taught by the churches mostly. It hasn't worked in the past and it doesn't work now. Witness Palin's 17 year old daughter. Human nature (both male and female) is simply not made that way.

I see what you are saying. I still can't fathom it simply for the fact that a candidate could fall in line with everything she believes or thinks is best for the country with the exception of being pro-choice, but she won't vote for them. Does that not bug anyone else?

Ryan

It bothers me. I am a Democrat, pro-choice, pro gay marriage, pro stem cell research. However, I would have a hard time voting for anyone who is anti stem cell research. I have Cerebral Palsy so that issue hits home for me. I am not a religious person and I am aganist any canaidate that wants to govern this country by the Bible. I really am not sure sometimes what decade we are living in when there are people out there that do not grasp that idea.

Sadly, we still have nine weeks left of this constant mud slinging. The name calling will only get worse. My current girlfriend is a very religious person, pro-life and is the daughter of a Priest. Go figure. I figure I may just go into hiding for these final nine weeks as I'm tired of all the negativity.

It's weird because my fiance thinks I'm the most liberal person on the planet for some reason. Yet, I'm against gay marriages and am mixed on abortion. This isn't stopping me from voting for Barack Obama. I just can't take another 8 years of Bush policy.

Ryan

Don't get me wrong Ryan, I am mixed on abortion as well.

I do not support killing babies but I also realize outlawing abortion will only cause bigger problems. My girlfriend has made the comment about being pro-choice that girls make the "choice" when they decide to have unprotected sex. What she and others often fail to realize however is that it is possible to have protected sex and still become pregnant, or god forbid, a woman is raped. THAT is why outlawing abortion is a terrible, terrible idea.

I'm almost opposite. If you make the choice to have sex then you should have to pay for the consequences. Now, there are some instances such as incest and rape where I believe there can be exceptions, as long as they aren't late-term abortions or partial birth abortions. Outlawing it completely is very improbabale. I can see what you are saying though.

Ryan

It may very well be.

However, I am extremely offended by many comments made by Bush, McCain and Palin and feel they insult my intelligence with 90% of their comments. Therefore, we're even :)

I am told that I abort babies that are inconvenient to me. I am told to be anti-american. I am told to have no family values ..... it's insulting and actually worse to me than if someone would say "I just don't get it".

It is unfathomable to me how someone could think it was ok to invade another country for personal reasons and unfathomable how it was not clear to people from day one what the real reasons were. It is unfathomable how someone would support someone who wants to take my personal rights away - whether or not it will actually happen or not is irrelevant. I it unfathomable how someone wants me to support nuclear energy and more drilling instead of using alternative energy like the rest of the world. It is unfathomable to me how someone would think that questioning the decisions of government make someone un-american. To think that somone agrees with those statements is something I dont understand. To think that people don't hear these things when listening to McCain and Bush make think they are lacking comprehension skills.

I do know people that voted for Bush and may support McCain and I consider them intelligent and respect them in every other way. I'll never understand why and will always wonder .... but that doesn't mean I truly believe that all McCain supporters are not intelligent.

Though it feels like it to me.

Yes he did. What he effectively was saying was that we need to keep the military personnel uneducated without future job prospects so we can wage more war and keep them 'in the system'.

What gets me most is that people were cheering. Apparently not getting the connection. (apologies if that is an inference on someones intelligence).