Would things be better with Sex Sells?
 

One things for sure, I like the title.

Had this album come out in 1999 would anything be different. Was this album a different direction than Crush? I think the contents of the album are not fully known but I know that it was different to Crush.

Was there ever a track called Sex Sells?

I can remember Jon saying in 1998 that it is an all out rock record, if so what happened in 1999 to change it to what we know as Crush? I think Sex Sells would have suited the band at this time.

What do you know or think?

Sex Sells was just the working title and at the time Jon didn't know weather to make another solo album or a band album. There was a song called Sex Sells plus a bunch of other demo's that never made the light of day. We got to hear some of them at the 10th anniversary fan club bash in New Jersey and were asked by Jon to vote on which ones we liked best. A rich man living in a poor mans house was one and also Just Older. But Just Older was called "Older" to begin with and was slightly different to the version that made it onto Crush.
I guess in the end Jon decided to go with another band album. If anyone was around in 2000 they would have been able to see the making of Crush every day from the studio as it was streaming on Bon Jovi.com.

Hope this helps!!

I remember trying to watch that from the IT suite at school, never sodding worked :mad:

It was more than a working title as there are posters of it in the Real Life video from 1999.

From what I understand quite a few songs made Crush anyway - and a few others are on the box set..
None of us have crystal balls so who knows what might have happened. It couldnt' have been any worse that Crush though because I consider that to be the bands weakest album other than the first 2.

I'm undecided on this one, we haven't heard enough of the material to determine whether it was a complete different direction from Crush, IMO. I do think that some of the songs on Crush should have been replaced with the demos- Temptation, I Don't Want To Live Forever, etc.

Yeah not enough material to be able to know which would have been better. I am quite happy the way Crush turned out, with some great songs(Just Older, Save The World, One Wild Night, Mystery Train etc.)

It's My Life was the song that gave the band their first big hit in the USA since Always in 1994/1995. That song was one of the last ones written for Crush. I really think it made a huge mark on the trajectory of their career post-2000--and I don't mean just in the consistent references to living life (they've always had those)! I believe It's My Life showed that they were still viable in the marketplace and had a huge impact on their ability to tour consistently on a large scale. It reminded people of a certain age that Bon Jovi was one of those acts that they loved when they were young and won over a new audience and another generation. The timing of Crush also coincided with Jon being able to cross-promote it and U-571 (which was a top-grossing movie) so it really put his face out there in the media at the time. To me, it looks like everything came together at the right time and in the right way for them.

I totally agree with this. It;s My Life had a huge impact on the band, IMO. I'm not a big fan of Crush myself. I only really like about 5 songs on there. It has some total garbage IMO. But anyway, IML was certainly a big mark for Jovi. I agree that it opend them up to a whole new audience. I know this for facts, from people that I know. I now know of 13, 14 year old's that love Jovi all because of that song. It kicked it off for them. So atlough Crush is certainly not a great album, IMO - it worked. Nobody knows enough to say much about Sex Sells, really. As said before, we don't have a crystal ball to see what could have happend. I do wonder though, if it wasn't for Crush/IML and the impact - maybe we would be having more of the Rock? But then probably not, because they chose to do that, and probably would have continued anyway?

If it wasn't for IML, Crush would have bombed. No other songs on that album were strong enough to make an impact. Even though I think it's quite an average song both lyrically and musically, had they not released it I think they would be in a very different place now.

I don't think there's any way to really know.
1. We don't have much info on all the tracks and such.
2. We don't know What tracks would have been singles
3. We don't know how he album would've been marketed.
All I do know, is that I'm in the immensely distinct minority here of loving Crush.

Would things be better? What's wrong with 'things'? Personally (I think I'm in the minority) nothing post-00 is truly awful ('cept Save The World, see below) - I enjoy some of TLFR even.

I'm a closet liker of Crush - nothing phenomenal, but some great songs, if you're in that mood. Although Save the World is one of the worst songs they've written, in my opinion - I can't get away from the cheesiness of it :p

Oh, in my drop-down menu for my RSS feeds, this topic is called: "Would things be better with sex" :mrgreen:

Sex Sells is a better title. But im alright with Crush

I don't see what people's problems are with Crush. I really like it(with the exception of It's My Life and Say It Isn't So). IMO, it has two good ballads, and OWN/Just Older are brilliant.

It's better than Have A Nice Day, too, IMO.

In 2000 I was 15 and I was attracted by It's My Life and Say It Isn't So and I bought the album and loved it. I bought the others and now it's 8 years later and I'm very glad that I did, because I love the music, have seen some great concerts and thanks to this specific forum I've made some great friends - so my life would probably be quite different if not for Crush. Seems odd when I put it like that, bit it's true.

As for Sex Sells possibly being better, well as more of a fan now I can apreciate more of their music, so some of the songs which didn't make it might have worked better in some respects - perhaps a double album would have been good, but unlikely from this band. Some of the songs which ended up on the boxset were from this era I think and I really love them (some of my favourites being 'Maybe Someday', 'Kidnap An Angel' and 'Satelite')

i totally agree with this as well - very well said!

Gotta agree about Satellite. A brilliant song that should be on Crush.

Satellite would have been a nice ballad to have on Crush--and one that didn't seem like it came out of the bottle of Big Ballad Formula #29.

I think they made a very wise decision in holding off releasing the CD by continuing to write and record forit. Their label had just been bought out by Universal so they were switched to Def Jam records. They were wary of how they would fit in that landscape and they let the dust settle from the changes. It was probably one of their smartest moves ever.

Hehe, that's just your opinion though. ;) My problem with it? It just doesn't have enough songs on there that I like. I don't like it much as an album, because of that. Atlough I do like a small handful of songs on it. I just don't feel they did all they were capable of, on that album. Well actually I think it's more, they were going for a different sound. To be more modern, and appeal to different audience. And as I said before, they definitely achieved that...and good for them too. But for me personaly, it's not their best music at all. But that's just a personal thing, because I like the bigger rock sound Jovi the best, in general. Sure I love a good ballad too, but they have NOTHING on there that is say...Always level. Now THAT'S a bloody ballad!!! I mean what are you classing on there as a "great ballad"? Just out of interest, I'm not picking on you or anything. Because all this is about is personal taste. :)

My question was really:

Would the band have taken a different direction if Sex Sells had come out in 1999. I think due to the reasons of them delaying the release it gave them more time to tinker with it and re-think the final release, that we know of as Crush.

True, without IML would Sex Sells have had a hit on it, who knows, but as a fan at that time I was not interested in hit singles I was interested in good music. Since These Days there has not been an album with enough good music on it IMO, don't get me wrong, there are some strong songs but not a consistant album.

I think the direction may have changed anyway as Jon had released DA and had some success with it. Obviously songs like Older were written and played on his solo tour in 1998.

My point is that due to the circumstances surrounding the delay of Sex Sells/Crush the idea of the album changed. I am just very interested to know what that original idea was like.

As for the promotion, you can catch the early promotion in the video for Real Life, would that song have made the Sex Sells album??

These are some of the songs, date wise, according to BJ.com that were written at between 1996-1999 that may have been included:

THESE ARMS ARE OPEN ALL NIGHT (Unreleased demo circa 1998 recorded with the Big Dogs in New Jersey.)
I GET A RUSH (Unreleased demo circa 1996.) Recorded in New Jersey.
SOMEDAY JUST MIGHT BE TONIGHT (Unreleased demo circa 1996.) Recorded in New Jersey.
GARAGELAND (Unreleased demo from 1999.) Recorded in New Jersey.
MAYBE SOMEDAY (Unreleased demo from 1999.) Recorded in New Jersey.
LAST CHANCE TRAIN (Unreleased demo from circa 1998.) Recorded in Los Angeles with Aerosmith's Joe Perry on guitar.
RICH MAN LIVING IN A POOR MAN'S HOUSE (Unreleased demo from 1998.) Recorded in New Jersey and Los Angeles with Dave Stewart.
ONE THAT GOT AWAY (Unreleased demo from 1999.) Recorded in New Jersey.
YOU CAN SLEEP WHILE I DREAM (Unreleased demo circa 1999.) Recorded in New Jersey.
SHUT UP AND KISS ME (Unreleased demo from 1997.) Recorded in New Jersey with the Big Dogs.
CRAZY LOVE (Unreleased demo from 1998.) Recorded in Los Angeles and New Jersey.
ORDINARY PEOPLE (Previously released b-side from 2000's CRUSH album.) Recorded in New Jersey.
SATELLITE (Unreleased demo from 1999.) Recorded in New Jersey.
REAL LIFE (Movie soundtrack from 1999's EDTV.) Recorded in New York City (at Avatar Studios, which had originally been the Power Station where Jon Bon Jovi had started his music career as a gofer) and New Jersey. It was remixed for inclusion in the box set.
TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING
(Unreleased demo from 1999 prior to CRUSH album.) Recorded in New Jersey.
RIVER RUNS DRY (Unreleased demo from 1996.) Recorded in New Jersey.
KIDNAP AN ANGEL (Unreleased demo from 1999.) Recorded in New Jersey.
TEMPTATION (Int'l b-side from CRUSH album in 2000.) Recorded in New Jersey.
ALL I WANNA DO IS YOU (Unreleased demo from 1997.) Recorded in New Jersey.

On top of that there are other B sides on the singles from Crush.

Looking at some of these songs I feel there could have been a much stronger overall album.

Can't say for sure but I would doubt it......

In my personal opinion, Sex Sells would have had a more rootsy telecaster heavy feel to it. I think the earlier tracks written for Crush where Ain't no cure or love, Too much of a good thing, Garageland. Songs like that coupled with Older and out takes from Jon's "third" solo album (Hush, Rich man, Gimme some) for instance, wouldn't have made it the all out rock album Jon was talking about but it certainly would have had more swagger than Crush. That being said, I wouldn't be here saying all this if it weren't for It's my Life so I got nothing. I do wish Crush had more of a bar band element though, that would have been great.

Aloha !

Jon doesn't have a clue what a rock album is. He said Crush was a rock album and that Kid Rock made good rock albums as well. That certainly proves that he's just talking out of his arse.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

...or that he has a different opinion to you. That could be possible, ya know.

Good point. You'd never believe it would ya?

I think Just Older would have been a good first single. The only problem with that though is it wouldn't have had the wow factor with the younger generation.

Nah. I definitely agree with Neurotica33. If it wasn't for IML, well...I'm not sure what would have happend really. I don't think it would have been pretty though. And that's coming from someone, that doesn't like Crush much. And I'm dissapointed Jovi aren't as rocky as they used to be, and I wish they'd go back to it. But Crush-ish Bon Jovi is loads better than no Bon jovi. :p They definitely needed IML, and to wow the younger generation. Kids were like (and still are) "wow this song's sooo good!!!" But I had already loved Jovi for years. And I was like "that's not even one of their best songs!" But for the more Pop Rock type lovers, and a lot of people, that were my age back when it came out - it was perfect, and it made them go out and buy Jovi albums. Or a lot of them did, at least. I think if Just Older were the first single, it probably would have sunk badly. But I guess you never know. We will never know! lol

I was so in love with IML when it came out.

But back then I thought some new band like Nickleback or summit sung it so the impact it did have on me was totally wasted.

I agree witht the ones who are saying without IML, Crush would've bombed big time.

Even worse, if IML wasnt' the first single, as originaly Say it isn't so was supposed to be the 1st single, then it would've bombed also big time.

The thing is, IMO, it's not a classic either as Prayer / Faith etc. In a few years time, if not already, the general public will see it as a poppy-sorta-boyband-song-but-done-by-a-so-called-rockband.....

It's My Life is hardly the greatest song of all time (as I'm sure you all know). But it is a very good single. If that makes sense. ;)

As for Crush, I feel that the album, like Bounce had more potential than what it ended up delivering.:rolleyes:

The Making of Crush
 

I stumbled across "The Making of Crush" on YouTube the other day. It's posted their in about 9 parts. Very, very good. Just type "The Making of Crush" in the search box and you'll find it.

Enjoy!

I think the main direction would have been the same. Looking at demos and outtakes from the boxset, tell us that the songs are in the same musical area.
Rivers Run Dry is a These Days outtake I think. They MUST have recorded that during TD era or on TD tour. Same same goes for The One That Got Away, that can't be from '99.

So what do we have left? "Crushsounding" songs ;)

Difficult to know really, they also left a heap of songs off the box set. Some we may see in the future ,I guess, and some they obviously just did not want to include.

IML was the song that made me into a Jovi fan. The only problem is that Bon Jovi had pretty much tried to remake it ever since.

The One That Got Away, if I remember correctly, was supposed to be used for the movie, Message In Bottle which came out around 1999/2000. So, I think 1999 is correct for that song.

deb

I still refuse to believe that some of those songs were recorded in that era. Satellite especially

I agree with Captain Jovi, Sex Sells may have been a stronger album than Crush, but, looking at these demos, it wouldn't have been an "all out rock record". Hell, the most all out rock song from that era is probably One Wild Night, and that actually made the album (although, I Could Make A Living Out Of Loving You and Neurotica are both pretty heavy too)

But, although opinions on Crush are very mixed, it did exactly what it needed to do .... launched Bon Jovi into the 21st Century with a whole generation of new fans and a massive selling album. I just can't imagine, from the tracks we've heard from it, that Sex Sells would have done the same. Of course, on the other other hand, that might have meant that the band didn't continue trying to appeal to the more casual market, as they seem to have done from Crush onwards, so that might not have been a bad thing. Ah, I dunno

I dunno either but I agree with this post.

FWIW I Don't Wanna Live Forever is a better song than It's My Life (IMO), but wouldn't have been half as successful (also IMO).

Aloha !

Crush was only such a big success because of It's My Life and Bon Jovi being away for so long. Had It's My Life not been the first single, but Say It Isn't So (which they wanted to be the first single) it wouldn't have sold half as many copies. The songs on Crush have nothing to do with what the people wanted. The people just wanted the album with It's My Life on it. If the songs on Crush were the reason of the success of Crush, why didn't Say It Isn't So and Thank You For Loving Me bring Crush back in the charts?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I don't dispute that, but I don't know about you, but if I heard a song I liked from a band I didn't own any albums of, bought the album that the song is on, and liked no other songs on it, it wouldn't inspire me to become a "fan". IML may have been responsible for Crush selling loads, but I don't think you can say it singlehandedly made thousands of new fans