I pity you if you honestly believe that.

Like others have said here, practically every band is in it to make oney, that's why they tour, but to go with you on the motivation aspect, do you honestly think Bon Jovi are not proud of their recent work??

You could argue that the albums from the 80's ad 90's are more vocally chalenging and shows off the bands songwriting and musical capabilities alot more than the work from 2000 onward, which I would comepletely agree with you but. How are you able o think that all that motivates JBJ is money, he's never been the critics darling so I doubt he realisticly thinks that the critics are gonna giva rave reviews to any song he writes (no matter how much anybody wants to say he desires it which I hav NO WAY of knowing)

I personally see the guys are proud of their albums, every time they tour, I remember Jon was proud as hell of TLFR even if the majority of fans hated it, is that not motivation and integrity enough, to write, record and release an album that you're proud of?

Your entire argument rests on that sentence basically: you see wanting to make money as a bad thing. For some reason. Others disagree.

We all grow up being schooled to be good little capitalists, pretty much being told that the amount of money you earn is directly related to how successful your life is. Whether that's the way it should be or not is open for debate, but the point is that if you see a desire to make money to instantly negate artistic integrity, you're going to see precious little artistic integrity anywhere. The way Western society is structured makes it not just desireable, but necessary to make money.

So Jon's sole reason for writing songs etc.... is about money??? i just don't get where that comes from. I mean really.... the last estimate out there was that his personal worth was what 350 million plus??!!! So this guy who doesn't even have to get out of bed in order to make a buck, is still putting himself through weeks if not months of marathon like physical training so he can perform four or five nights a week, packing his bags and leaving his very comfortable home and a family that it's pretty indisputable that he adores, for weeks at a time, to sit in empty, cold hotel rooms alone just to spend three hours a night on stage... all just to make a buck????
There are surely easier ways for him to make a dollar if he felt the need. Look I'm not saying Jon doesn't like making money, that he doesn't like being at the top of the mountain, it's pretty obvious he does, but to say Jon or any other commercially viable artist is only in for the money and has no love for making music for musics sake is just wrong.
IMO, you have to have an almost insatiable passion for songwriting and making music to do it for as long as Jon, Bruce U2, Aerosmith Dave Grohl etc... have been doing it. It takes some cajones to lock yourself in a room with a guitar and an empty pad of paper, look at each other and say. "ok, what are we feeling strongly about this year, or what went to crap this year that we can write about", do it, and then put it out in the universe for the world to judge as they will. To do it once, twice, five times maybe, but when you start pushing the double figures in albums and 20 plus years of tours, there is more to it than just making a dollar.

Agreed........ :D

I never said anything about losing your artistic integrity, because that's not what it's about. Every professional artist does what they do for money. It's as simple as that. They might like it, love it, even feel the need to do it, but they still do it for the money.

Do you think Mozart would've written anything if they hadn't ordered stuff from him? DO you think Them Crooked Vultures would tour if they had to pay it for themselves (they have the money)? No, they wouldn't, because they want the money. Artistic integrity has nothing to do with money. You can be a starving artist making stuff in your basement or a rock star selling millions, but your artist integrity has nothing to do with it. But if you do any art professionaly, you're in it for the money. It's not a matter of an opinion, it's a fact. They do it for the money they recieve. If they wouldn't get money, they wouldn't be doing what they do.

Ice

No one said that. I'm sure he would write songs even if he was a plumber, but would he do it in this scale? No.

Now there are. Back then there weren't.

Again, no one said so. I said he's working for the money. He's writing music and performing for the money he recieves doing it. If for some reason we'd stop paying him, he would stop doing it. Get it?

That's the kind of stupid romantic image people have of song writing or being a rock star. It's not like that. It's work. You go in the room and you sweat to get the songs out. It's not inspiration or divine intervention, it's hard work. And you don't always pour you heart out, most of the times you're just making shit up.

The same with performing. People seem to think that every single gig is like a massive orgasm for the performer, but it's just a job. You come to the town, you do your job and you leave for the next one. It might be fun to be on that stage and have people worship you, but it's still a job.

And they do it for the money. If they didn't do it for the money, they would've either stop touring a long time ago or stopped charging people for their music and tours.

Ice

I never said Jon didn't like getting paid or didn't think what he did was a job, and not the sum total of his life.
All I was reacting to was the claim made earlier, (not by you) that the only as in the one reason Jon writes a song, makes a record, goes on tour is to make money. Of course he does it to get paid, everyone likes to get paid for their work and efforts, but considering the fact he's been a hell of a wealthy guy for alot of years now, I just don't believe money is the only motivating factor.

I don't see Jon or any other of the successful artists as "romantically tortured souls" who just have to write or they will die or anything, but I do think that they all have a love, a desire, a passion for writing songs and making music, otherwise they wouldn't do it long past the point when they need the financial gains it brings them.
Yes it was said, (again not by you) that Jon made music strictly for financial gain, ie that his sole reason to get out of bed and write a song was to make a buck.
I'm very aware that artists all believe that performing is a job not a cosmic connection to the universe or an orgasmic experience. I see alot of live shows and very often it's apparent just how much of a job they think it is. but again I will say that there has to be something else besides the all mighty dollar that keeps Jon packing his bags every few years.

I never said money wasn't a part of it, of course it is, but I don't believe it's the sole reason any of them keep doing it.

No, it wasn't. Read the posts. It was about wheter or not artists do their jobs for money. That was my argument and you didn't agree.

Then why did you start arguing. They do their jobs for money.

If you're a professional artist, there is no difference. Integrity is subjective, it's something the artist decides for himself. And if you get paid for doing art, you do it for the money. You might do exceptional work of art, but you'd still do it for the money. You wouldn't do it without the money.

Ice

Iceman, your Misanthropy is overwhelming.

You can't tar every single artist ever with the same brush, that's just terribly arrogant.

The last show my band played, we didn't get paid. No one on the bill got paid either.

The town we played in has a tiny amount of rock fans so we decided to do it for free to keep the scene alive. We actually ended up out of pocket, but it was the best gig we've played yet. And we don't give a shit about the money.

I'm just glad the world's not full of people with the same world view as yours.

Ugh.

I'm really not sure why I'm continuing to bother while you sit there and vehemently deny that there is any colour other than black or white. I've said it before, but one more time: making money and making art are almost certainly both motivations for people to follow a musical career. Not just one or the other, but BOTH. Just because one band makes less money than another, it doesn't make their music instantly better, as you seem to be suggesting.

And I'm not going to get into an ideological debate, but the point is that EVERYONE has to make money in some way ...it's not being greedy, it's just the way it is. Should we expect all our musicians to hold down full time jobs and tour for peanuts at the same time?

i think you'll find alot of bands have done this. I'm reading the life story of Kurt Cobain at the mo and talks of similar experiences of not getting paid. I think it happened to GnR's as well

Can someone just confirm are these genuine lyrics for WWWB? Cheers.

First verse:
The world is cracked
The sky is torn
I'm hanging in
your holy arms
I can't pretend
I took my chance
I took my shot
When did it end?
The chorus:
Back
When we were beautiful
Before the world outside
Before we knew it all
Back
when we were innocent
I wonder where we went?(Not sure)
Let's go back and find our end?(Not sure)
Second verse:
Some dreams live
Some will die
But to you and me
they're still alive
Now am I blessed
or am I cursed
'Cause the way we are
is the way we were

Hard to tell from the clip, but sounds ok to me.

Looking forward to the book and documentary now, and to hearing the song in full.

The actual sentence should read:

You COULDN'T afford to do it without the money.

It doesn't mean you're chasing it. I thought you were quite smart.

Absolutely, Jon is leading an organisation. He makes lots of money but he also creates lots of jobs for other people. He pays the salaries of Richie, David, Tico and al other people directly involved in their records, tours or anything else.
How in the world could they tour with many trucks of equipment, so many roadies, etc...

And sure he has made millions, but do you think Jon picked up his guitar when he was 15 or something with the ambition to make millions? I guess he just wanted to play songs, perform, be succesful with his music and maybe make a living out of it. That's every boys dream, not? Jon is one of the lucky few to succeed in this dream and achieved succes beyond his wildest dreams.

Now, to be able to keep on touring on this level, he really needs to make lot's of money to be able to set up these tours and to keep continuing bringing out records.
Without that, none of us would even be talking about bon jovi on this site cause they would be so unknown that not a single soul on this board would know them.

It's a bit like prefering to play the club when you can do stadiums. **** that, said Jon. Artists who think they are more integer when making just a buck instead of a million bucks? **** that too!

http://www.bonjovi.com/story/news/th...were_beautiful

Just one more month!!! :)

Does anybody know if there is there some older stuff from 80s and 90s stuff included (at least in the book)?

don't know about the book, but the movie doesn't have old stuff, it's all recent

hm how can it be a documentary of 25 years then :confused:
never understand why JBJ always likes to hide those times nowadays

To be fair, they never said that wouldn't be talking about/showing things from the past, as much as that the documentary is set around the MSG/CP shows. There seemed to be some older stuff in the preview at Tribeca last year, from what I heard.

They talk about the past, of course, but don't remember seeing old footage. The whole thing was filmed during the LH tour.

can someone clarify please....

Book is out next mth.... Doucumentary will be on showtime... after this will it be available on DVD to buy?

Dawn

I think it's premiered on showtime and then almost at the same time it will be available on DVD to buy.... maybe the following Tuesday??

Thought you guys would like to know, the best price I've seen for this for all you uk-ers is here;

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book...64155/Bon-Jovi

I've used the site before a few times, and it's always delivered. One thing to note mind, they will charge you when you place the order, rather then when it ships. Still, fiver cheaper then play.com!

The picture on Amazon now says "The Book" instead of "When We Were Beautiful" on the cover.

thank u . I ahve used them before , no probs.

Dawn

i've found that it's cheapest on amazon
Bon Jovi: When We Were Beautiful: Amazon.co.uk:...

I stand corrected. Although I have heard several of my friends moaning about their postage, mind.

i've been fine with them in the past :)

does anyone know if this is the book including the dvd?
http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/1...l/Product.html

and is the amazon one including dvd?

the amazon one does not include the dvd and from the link i would say the play one does not either

I cant see anywhere saying DVD included

So yea, the official trailer is up on BJ.com...not the biggest news, but news nonetheless.

Just saw the ad for the movie on the subway :)
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_QwZGr6OjrDQ/Ss...T4/s640/bj.jpg

OMG -- where was that?! I'm working in NYC today and took the subway. Maybe I shouldn't have been 3/4 asleep this AM!

Excellent! :D

That was on the 6 line uptown, mmmm not sure what stop, maybe 59 Street :)

There has been absolutely no mention of it being available to buy on dvd. The only thing I have seen is that it maybe included with the album as a deluxe version.

Awesome - I may need to check it out. :D