Def Leppard vs. Bon Jovi
 

The topic so controversial, it's banned from many
discussion lists.



"When we had Pyromania, everyone was copying us… Bon Jovi, they were all doing a karaoke version of it." Phil Collen speaks to Guitarist magazine, 2002.

HOW THEY STACK UP:
Def Leppard Bon Jovi
Album sales: 46 million 93 million
US Top 40 hits: 15 17
UK Top 40 hits: 21 27
Gimmick factor: One-armed drummer "Blood on Blood" image; pretty boy lead singer
Year of debut album: 1980 1984
Nationality: British American



Mention Bon Jovi in a Def Leppard message board and the response will be so crazy that eventually the moderator will close the thread. Bon Jovi fans don't go as nuts. They get a bit cagey, tell you that Def Leppard are mediocre '80s has-beens, and then drop the subject, hoping it will go away. The rivalry between Def Leppard and Bon Jovi is not just a creation of their fans or the media; it really exists. Phil Collen is forever saying things like the above quote, such as a radio interview where, when asked what band he felt had copied Def Leppard, he responded, "I can't tell you because we're friends with them." That kind of sums it up; it's a serious rivalry, yet one between friends.
The reason for the rivalry is that the line between them is so obvious. Sound-wise, the similarity is undeniable; any open-minded person who likes one of them should enjoy the other. They both were at their commercial peak from 1987-1990. They both were leaders of the hair metal genre who, unlike the rest, survived into the '90s. Most importantly of all, they are, and have always been, on the same record label, leading to intense scrutiny from fans about who is favoured more by the record company with promotion and such.
The reason for the rivalry is simple: Bon Jovi have been and continue to be more successful than Def Leppard, but, and this is fact, Bon Jovi owe their sound to Def Leppard. Even his egoness Jon Bon Jovi has admitted it. Rolling Stone writer David Fricke observed that, in the gap between Pyromania and Hysteria, "Heavy-melody bands like Bon Jovi were practically minting money with stadium rock mix of Top 40 hooks and glam metal crunch that sold six million copies of Pyromania. They hadn't just copped Leppard's action, they'd Xeroxed the sound." This irritates Def Leppard fans no end. It just doesn't seem right that Def Leppard could invent a sound with Mutt Lange and then have Bon Jovi sweep in and take all the glory. Okay, so Def Leppard aren't exactly starving artists, but they've put out more albums than Bon Jovi and sold half the amount, getting in recent years virtually no promotion in comparison to Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi fans aren't too eager to discuss it. Those old enough to remember 1983 can barely deny that every rock band in America wanted to be Def Leppard and Bon Jovi was one of them, but no fan is going to admit that their heroes are following someone else's glory.
One critical difference between Bon Jovi and Def Leppard is their nationality. Def Leppard, with their Yorkshire accents, were able to play a little on American Anglophilia. Bon Jovi, however, are American, and that is a massive advantage in the extremely patriotic United States. Americans love their heroes; they love rags-to-riches stories of Americans who made it great and are living the American Dream. Bon Jovi have made the transition to American heroes. For Def Leppard, well, there is no such thing as the British Dream for them to live, and the British public don't support their home-grown bands like their American counterparts do.
At one time, however, Lep and Jovi were on essentially level terms. Slippery When Wet and Hysteria sold almost exactly the same numbers in the US, both certifying 12x platinum. As time went by, however, the distance between them grew. What happened?
"We've never had an A&R man unless we've actually gone to them and asked them to sort something out for us," explains Joe Elliott. "Mutt always used to say, 'Keep those people away from you, they'll just destroy you. They'll kill your soul and try to tell you what they want." All very well in 1989 when Def Leppard were cool, more popular than a supermodel at an all-boys' boarding school, and enjoying seven hit singles. Not so good in 1999 when the whole world is against you. Besides which, no one needs an A&R man when they've got Mutt Lange. Mutt is a music industry supremo. He knows a hit single a mile off, is one of the best producers in the business, and knows how to market a band. Mutt started pulling out of the Leppard project after Hysteria, though, because the album was the masterpiece that realised the full potential of the Lange-Leppard partnership. While he was in contact with the band through Adrenalize to give input on the songs, Leppard weren't the same proposition without the unique relationship they had with Mutt. Bon Jovi's Keep the Faith and Lep's Adrenalize both surfaced in 1992, an extremely bad year for the '80s rock bands, who were all dropping like flies. Initially, Adrenalize outsold Faith in the US, going triple platinum to Jovi's double. Worldwide, however, Keep the Faith annihilated Adrenalize and set Bon Jovi up for a decade of continued prominence. The deliberately cheesy humour of "Let's Get Rocked" and "Make Love Like a Man" from Def Leppard yielded hits at the time but did them no favours in the long run, with critics, particularly in America, interpreting the band's wit as outmoded and clichéd rock sexism. Bon Jovi had completely changed their sound and image in tune with the '90s. Def Leppard's hair was bigger than ever and their album was their slickest slice of pop-metal yet. For the first time, Def Leppard looked out of date; it was an image they would never shake.
Since then, Bon Jovi have made a series of very smart moves and Def Leppard a series of major miscalculations. Leppard's management Q-Prime had taken on the Red Hot Chili Peppers, forcing the Leps to play second-fiddle. Bon Jovi, on the other hand, set up their own management company dedicated exclusively to the interests of the band and its members' solo projects. The mid-nineties proved a critical time for both bands, when their brand of '80s rock was at its most reviled. Bon Jovi's "These Days" was stripped down, lyrically less hopeful, and musically mellower, but essentially true to the Bon Jovi that had begun to emerge with Keep the Faith. Bon Jovi had learned exactly how to evolve their sound without alienating their fans. Leppard figured that anything they put out in the '90s would bomb, so they put out Slang, an album which was influenced more by grunge, industrial, and R'n'B as any past Def Leppard. They were just following trends; they were equally seeking to explore new creative avenues and distance themselves from the sound of their lesser imitators. The grunge crowd didn't buy it, of course, and many of their core fanbase felt betrayed by the sudden change. Def Leppard were proving themselves to be excellent musicians but useless marketers. Adrenalize had misjudged the rock audience at large, while Slang misjudged their own fans.
With Crush, Bon Jovi found themselves with another multi-platinum album in the USA. Def Leppard's Euphoria, meanwhile, had been a conscious effort to regain the fans put off by Slang. The album failed to crossover to the mainstream, and sold less worldwide than Crush did in the USA. They tried another radical rethink and came out as Def Leppard, pop/rock band in 2002 with X. With far more promotion than Euphoria, the album nevertheless sold more slowly. It seems that they yet again misjudged their core audience's taste. Bon Jovi, meanwhile, seem set for American legend status as they take their comeback to new heights with Bounce. Def Leppard fans feel frustrated and not without reason; Lep were there first and have continued to put out fine albums. When it comes down to it, though, Bon Jovi have made all the right moves to keep themselves on top.
Jon Bon Jovi's looks and acting career, Richie Sambora's guitar hero status (and high-profile marriage to Heather Locklear), and the band's appearances at movie premieres all mean that their star status extends beyond just music. Def Leppard, on the other hand, keep themselves to themselves and only surface to release an album. Back in the '80s, they got a good deal of attention for having a one-armed drummer too. It's not like they tried to cash in on it, but that's how it worked out. These days, the very same thing is used by their detractors as ammo for cheap jokes. And, good intentions or otherwise, let's not forget that appearances at September 11th concerts have done nothing to harm Bon Jovi's desired image as American heroes.
Sorry Lep; sometimes life just ain't fair.


Good stuff eh?? :lol:

BOUNCE,
Ryan

Yeah - I enjoyed most of that. I'd venture to say that one reason for the divide in success is that Lep just haven't got the mega hit songs BJ have. For example, Prayer & IML. I don't think Lep have anything like that, that is so widely known.

Mike

Where did you get this from? Did you write it yourself, or is it rewritten from somewhere? Good article, but where is the debate? Alot of Bon Jovi fans are Def Leppard fans as well; I have seen Def Leppard many times in concert. I don't really care if people think that Bon Jovi "stole" Def Leppard's sound. The fact is: Bon Jovi skyrocketed to fame in the 80's, and have been able to remain mainstream since then, even though most other glam bands ceased to exist. And Bon Jovi have been able to gain new fans, not just rely on the main core of longtime fans like Def Leppard. I bought X and was very disappointed by it. Hysteria is my all time favorite Def Leppard album. Def Leppard or Bon Jovi. Isn't it possible to like both?

I saw it myself and then I copied and pasted them to here...Interesting though isn't it....

BOUNCE,
Ryan

Here's the link: http://rockhole.bravepages.com/defjovi.html

I like the article... very true.

Erm def fans is all i can say. Sorry but i really dont rate def leppard much, it might have been their sound but bon jovi improved on it.

This is a difficult topic for me. There was a time in the late 80's when the day of the week dictated whether I liked BJ or DL more. Now, it's obvious who my favorite is, but I still hold a very dear place in my heart for Def Leppard. Hysteria is one of the albums I'd want with me if I were ever stranded on a desert island somehwhere. It's up there with the best of the best for me. There are a lot of fond memories that go along with that album for me. And Def Leppard do have a few hit songs that have stuck around through the years. Pour Some Sugar on Me comes to mind the quickest. I have friends who are a lot younger than me that I work with and they've heard that song and said how much they like it, who sings it, etc. I've purchased the new Def Leppard cd's as they've been released, but I haven't enjoyed them like I used to. I still support them and would go to see them live in a heartbeat (it just seems that no good bands want to come to Florida anymore). So, for me there is no "rivalry". I loved both bands at the height of their success and still love them both now.

I would have called myself a Def Leppard fan in the late 80's. I discovered them with Hysteria and worked my way backward only to find that their previous releases sounded just like Hysteria. I didn't give up on them totally until Adrenalized when I realized it STILL sounded like Pyromania. So, yes, I would agree that Def Lep has a "sound" but it's the same sound over and over again as far as I cared to waste my money on them. If I want to hear Def Lep, why bother with something new? At least I've heard Hysteria enough to understand the lyrics. LOL I feel the same way about Aerosmith. I became a fan them with Pump, worked backward, bought later releases as well and realized there was no point. They've been writing the same songs for 25 years. I've come to the conclusion that if I have one Def Lep CD and one Aerosmith CD, I have them all. :lol:

The difference with Bon Jovi is that they are not stuck in a rut. They continue to grow as writers. Thank God, they don't keep rereleasing Bad Name. LOL Maybe another factor is that DL relies on Mutt moreso than themselves whereas Jon is the mastermind of Bon Jovi's success. Mutt may be a genius, but his priority seems be be focuses on his very successful wife Shania Twain.

Becky

Not to sound cocky, but that article sounds as if it was largely influenced by my postings regarding Adrenalize and Def Leppard's marketing at the time and how it killed them in the long run over at the now defunct Satellite of Love under my DesertWalker username. Obviously the author has been reading the Def Leppard forums and that one was the most active. Regardless, they have a strong grasp on the analysis I made of how Adrenalize, an album that sold well at the time, killed Def Leppard's chance of longevity in the public eye.

The article is on point regarding marketing differences. However I do think they are wrong when it comes to Slang and how it was a "grunge" album or that they were jumping on trends. I was most proud of them for Slang and felt they did their own thing in a time where everyone else was jumping on the grunge trend. Def Leppard was back to doing what they had been doing as far as setting trends, but this time they weren't being recognized for it because the damage had been done.

Another problem I have with the article is the the author is convinced Bon Jovi xeroxed Def Leppard's sound. Frankly..the only thing the two bands have in common outside of both being the top two acts in the late 80s is the emphasis on melody and vocals. The instrumental approach, song writing, and even the actual singing of the background vocals differ. The influences behind the two bands music differs quite a bit (Queen, Glam-Rock for Def Leppard; Bruce Springsteen, Southside Johnny, Beatles for Bon Jovi.) True, members of Def Leppard do boast that Bon Jovi simply copied what they did. However, despite Joe Elliot's claim that Living on a Prayer is a Def Leppard rip off, I'd say they are claiming more credit than is due. One only needs to TRULY listen with their ears.

I don't think you can compare these two bands. they both had a worlwide monsterselling (hysteria and SWW), but their music is really different. and it's not talkin' about who is doing rock or pop these days... it's different, even if they first come from hard-rock both.