Debate time? The right to assisted suicde
 

We've not had a decent debate in a while so thought I'd throw this out here:

Today a man with a terminal illness has lost an appeal to protect health professionals from the law should a doctor or nurse help or assist him in going to Zurich (Dignitas I assume?) He'll be able to take it to a further appeal court but at face value it is another bar to people who wish to choose assisted suicide being able to do so without fear of legal reprisals for those that have helped.

It's not set in stone but from what I've been reading and listening to on the radio today, a family member is very unlikely to face legal action in an assisted suicide case (even within the UK)

Thoughts?

I have my own opinions on this but I'll wait to see if there's any takers before getting involved. Or else we can keep talking about whether Richie is coming back or not :o

I watched my Dad, strong man go from 6', 195 to135 in a matter of months facing terminal cancer. I watched my Grandmother lay in a bed in a home with alzheimers for years not knowing even her own children any more. I do believe that there are things worse than death.
Hospice was an incredible help to us with Dad, he had little pain but a lot of suffering on other levels. Modern medicine can help only to a point. We started out praying for a miracle and ended up just asking for mercy. IF the person is of sound mind - Confirmed medically at least 3X (too many errors) that there is no hope, it should be an option. Quality of life is important in my eyes. I know, for our own reasons, we don't want to see someone go, but.......

Oh, and I don't know if Richie is coming back, I'd like to see it but love him either way. Distrust his hangers on right now.

It's a tricky topic. I am strongly against any type of suicide for people who have no "good" reason (if that's not the "duh" statement of the century). However, most instances of terminal illnesses involve a rapid decline in life quality towards the end, and I think it's more than fair to help that person end their life in a more dignified way if that's what they so choose.

I am not familiar with Dignitas, but I assume they don't just help end the life of anybody who waltzes in wanting to die. I'd think the person has to have a pretty undeniable reason.

Dignitas is a clinic in Switzerland which shall we say facilitates those who wish to end their life.

Understandably it's hit the headlines a number of times and there's been documentaries made about it that you can probably find on Youtube or a free docu stream site.

Reading it's Wiki entry it states that around 20% of the people who use Dignitas don't have a termina or progressive illness but I'll take that with a pinch of salt with it being Wiki and all.

Once they stopped treating my grandfather and told us all they could do was keep upping his morphine, we watched him suffer for a long 3 days until he took his final breath. We stood around his bed begging whatever higher power to just take him and end it. If he was able to communicate I know he wouldn't have wanted to go through that. I think in situations lime that, the person should have a choice. I don't think a person without a terminal illness should be able to walk into a clinic to end their life though.

I believe in the right to "choose". If you are of sound mind and you want "out" for whatever reason I figure that's your choice. Personally I think it's even more important in a health or terminal illness case - some people simply don't want to have to hang on through to the grinding, painful end. I read somewhere that the medical industry makes most of its money from you in the last few months of your life. If there is truly no hope of living a life of reasonable quality (hard to gauge) I think the option should be available.

However (and here come the caveat). People being people, some will try to take advantage of a provision such as this and decided to kill off Great Aunt Tilly before her time so that they can inherit. And certainly we all know that hospital and medical care personnel can be bribed and bought.

So what's the answer? For the record I have a Mother who was always adamant about not dying in a hospital and losing what little money she had left to the medical industry. She wrote a living will with Do Not Resuscitate orders (I am the executor). Recently however during a heart procedure, her kidneys failed due to the dye used in the heart procedure. It was explained to her that she could refuse dialysis but she did not. So when push comes to shove, will most people choose life - even for the short term? I really don't know the answer.

I don't think there's anything to debate about. If a person is terminally ill or the expected quality of life would be substandard, I don't understand why a person of sound mind shouldn't be able to end their life. Sure, there are "miracles", but mostly they don't happen. And no one can REALL tell what another person is feeling. If you're going to die anyway in the next few months, why should you suffer? Just because some doctor wants you to? Because he took an oath?

I'm for assisted suicide in medical conditions that are irreversible going to either cause death of the patient, large amounts of pain or leave them withering away. As long a person knows what he's doing, he should be allowed to choose his own way out.

As to suicides in general, I think they're not the right way. If you're not ill, there's always a way out. I've been very close to suicide attempts and know of them to say that those rescued and/or survived have been very happy they didn't die or weren't allowed to. But if the situation is irreversible and a medical fact, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to choose for yourself.

Ice

The thing is Ice, that there is something to debate here or else this guy wouldn't have to be appealling to a higher court.

Bit of a heavy subject. I should have started "should weed be legalised?" :D

I'll rephrase: there shouldn't be anything to debate about.

Ice

Nothing really to debate is there? :p

I have had friends here commit suicide though not for medical reasons. One of them I would've known for 13 years had he been alive today.

I think that the option of suicide whether due to physical, mental or situational stress or unhappiness should be available to all. A quick read of the quote below will enlighten you as to how my country's government treats suicide.

Recently one of my friends was in hospital for a suicide attempt of overdosing and the doctor instructed her to tell the police she had take the wrong amount of the wrong medication as she couldn't see the pills in the dark. She told me that despite being in a state of delirium following the overdose and having had her stomach pumped and whatnot - she was interviewed by police officers at 5AM.

Aloha !

I'm honestly not trying to pick on you, but who are you to decide what's a good reason for someone else?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I had a tough time choosing the wording for that. I meant that I'm strongly against suicide of people who are just sad, or even depressed. There IS a better way out. But to me, a "good" reason would be a terminal illness.

If you don't mind me asking - what is the better way out?

Help from loved ones/professionals.

If it was that simple then suicide wouldn't even be an issue.

You ever heard the old cliche': He seemed fine, no one could have guessed what was going on in his head... It's said for a reason. Of the few people I know who have committed suicide, none of them seemed like they needed any help or assistance.

Add to the fact that depression is such a misunderstood condition that I'd imagine most people are unwilling to "out" themselves as much of the time it would get the wrong reaction.

Aloha !

Oh, I know what you mean. But still, who are you to decide whether it's a good thing? I know people who have been under heavy medication and therapy and yet the only thing that has done this for them is make them numb to pretty much everything, which really isn't a nice way to live. So why say no when someone's physical health is perfect but mental health just can't be fixed?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

How about someone deciding to stop a treatment that keeps them alive? My Mom died last Friday after refusing kidney dialysis anymore. Is that suicide or is that a sensible choice when there is no hope for a recovery?

Also, if someone wants to end their life for whatever reason, surely there should be a controlled environment in which they can do it?

So many suicides have knock on psychological effects for those people who witness them and if someone is intent on choosing death over life, they're likely going to find a way to do it anyway. Why should innocent bystanders be caught up in the trauma?

So sorry to hear that Kathleen, must be the hardest thing ever. I know it will happen to my parents but I just cannot imagine life without them.
As for her choice I would think it is the right one however painful it is for you.

I do believe it is a person's right to choose when they go, it is their life after all?
Not all drugs do that to you Seb, there is citalopram. It allows you to carry on with life without thinking about suicide all the time.
Thing is getting people to go to the doctors to talk about it plus getting a doctor that understands.

Thanks Russ - where have you been anyway? Nice to see you here again. And yes - I had to come to the same conclusion, It was her choice and she got to make it. I wish we had been able to talk one more time but clearly that was MY wish and not hers.

My Gran decided on the same thing for something similar around ten years ago - I still think in some ways it was one of the bravest things I've seen someone do, but she was that drained from all the treatment she had to go through that she didn't have any energy left.

Big hugs to you.

I've kinda go off Jovi for a while, think I've over done it over the years and need a brake from them. I've been very busy at work though and have just started a new business buying and selling Jeeps, seems to be going well at the mo :)

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear this, Kathleen :(

Glad to hear you're doing well, Russ. You deserve it :)

Thank you Alex :D