Syria
 

How about a genuinely serious discussion for once?

I have quite strong views on this (I'm just about to start my third year at uni studying International Relations & Politics) but I'm more interested in seeing what others think rather than just spouting my thoughts from the off.

So, anyone?

Most of my degree revolves around geo-politics, IR and war and conflict but it doesn't take a huge amount of knowledge to realise that a. the place is a complete mess and b. maybe siding with the extremists isn't a grand idea.

IF (and it's a big if I mean my 1st thought was, why the hell would they do that?) Assad has gassed his own people then he needs to go, quickly and via force.

On the flipside, every single ****ing conflict we end up getting tied in away back to the mid 19th Century inevitably ends in a complete cluster **** both at the time and for generations after it and with an ever increasinbly globalised world, there's an even bigger risk with it these days.

Personally I'd like to see the UN grow a pair of balls and do something about it. They need a serious rejig of how the Security Council operates to stop situations whereby one country - in this case Russia - can put the stop to an action for questionable reasons.

That's not going to happen and unfortunately the UN isn't fit for purpose in situations like this. I'm no war monger but it is far too passive for its own good. Sometimes in order to avoid conflict, you need to engage in conflict. Assad has had nigh on 2 years of edge to either get out or get his shit together with no major intervention from UN forces and nothing has been solved so now the UN has to act.

The fact that they won't in any tangible or useful way leads to the inevitable situation that:

Air strikes will be used to cripple Syria's military and infrastructure but that alone won't cut it so the rebels will be armed from somewhere (hopefully not the West) but I'm not holding my breath for Western governments to suddenly develop some common sense and stop selling weapons to groups who will inevitably turn them on us in coming years.

United States of America as well as Russia should stay away from Syria and let the people figure it out themselves. They aren't saviors and they won't become now.

After 100,000 people have been killed? Really? Let people 'figure out themselves' whether to live or die just because it so randomly happened that they were born in Syria? I'm all for political freedom, national self determination and so on. But when people slaughter each other for no reason, the UN should be there. And if the UN doesn't have the balls, someone else should.

That's just idealistic thinking though as I know perfectly well that this is not how the world functions. Also, it doesn't mean that killing Assad and bombing down military/ industrial centres is the solution. But even if that's only the first step in a long, cumbersome and costly transition to something resembling normality, then I'm all in favour.

Who started this mess at first place? Not just in Syria but in whole Africa/Asia. This started since 2006 when someone decided to declare Iraq's goverment dictator. Iraq was fine back then, people were living decent, they had nothing against their leader. But someone wanted the oils and their leader wasn't willing to step back & give their sources to them. Then they took him out. Then Libya etc came. It's all about the oil & the money.

Always been like that. Syria would be peaceful but they started it, now they want to become saviors. They aren't. For sure someone has to stop this mess but make it by the democratic way...;)

That really just shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Whilst I completely believe the whole WMD thing was exactly a way for Bush/Blair to try and take down someone to blame for 911 since they couldn't catch Bin Laden and justify their war on terror, and Saddam was totally a scapegoat for that, Iraq was not fine. The people were not living decent. They had no way to act against their leader without being detained by secret police and tortured. Like most dictatorships the people of Iraq had very little freedom, just like the people of Syria.

The people of Syria finally tried to do something about it and instead they've pretty much been lambs to the slaughter for 2 years. However, like all wars that go on too long, both sides then start getting their hands dirty and things get messier and messier.

Does the rest of the world have a moral obligation to step in? If it was happening in my town, on my streets, I'd hope someone would.

Syria is f*cking mental. Some of the amateur footage from there is mind blowing and almost nearly always very graphic - http://www.liveleak.com/c/syria

If The UK, US etc move in then they should be prepared for a long dirty war with lots of death but it hasn't stopped them before.

I know I said I'd sit back and just have a read but this is bullshit. The people hated Saddam. Plus, the war in Iraq began in 2003.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783

Well that's the UK ruled out of any military action. So we'll just sit back and watch the syrians die? I understand Iraq burned them, but whilst it wasn't a happy society, thousands weren't dying every single day like in Syria which is an entirely different situation. They had no real reason at that point to go after Saddam, I can't help but feel Assad is a ****ing madman.

Like in any dictatorship, someone supports the upcoming dictator to take the leadership of his country. In this case, back in 1967, USA, put George Papadopoulos as the prime minister of Greece in order to avoid Greece becoming a communist country. Although, Papadopoulos was a fine dictator and helped the country's development, when he decided to use the Greek energy sources under Aegian Sea & Ionian Sea, United States took him down by taking down half of Cyprus. The impact in Cyprus was pre-planned and the Cypriots knew about it. As the Greeks knew that a dictator would be in charge for Greece.

The same people that put Papadopoulos in Goverment, the same people took him down.

And about 9/11, I still believe it was an inside job.

Any little credibility you had left has now gone.

What credibility are you talking about?

In any case, stripping out the political and economic conspiracies that people love to point out whenever they have a chance (because they 'still believe' it's all true... a bit like people believe they can get pregnant after engaging in oral sex or Santa Clause) this is first and foremost a HUMANITARIAN cause and that should be dealt with by an international body.

Now what Russia and China are doing is disgraceful. Germany is not part of the Security Council but using Syria in their election campaigns is equally disgraceful. And the fact that the European f*ckin' Union has no common position on this and other than some under-equipped special intervention troops have no one to intervene anyway is equally disgraceful. Then we have NATO which exists for what reason again??? International Policy has become more of a mess than ever.

Having said that - the fact that Obama doesn't seem to back down now that the British Parliament has ruled out an intervention is just great. Kudos to him, it's the right thing to do.

In what way? Do you think that it was a 100% inside job and that the towers were rigged with explosives etc? There are some ridiculous theories out there.

I think the most that America did was allow it to happen.

Well it looks like democracy reigns in the UK at the moment but how long that will last, who knows.

If nothing else, Blair going into Iraq has definitely left a legacy for future PM's to wind their neck in when faced with vocal opposition to using force so I'd expect Cameron to do the same.

Looks like Obama is still gunning for Syria though which I'm quite glad about as something really needs done to tip the balance. In order for evil to triumph it only requires good men to do nothing and so on...

I'm reading a book just now charting the history of the world (it's a big book!!!) and an interesting point was made yesterday about the US being fiercely isolationist prior to WW2 but within a few years they'd been forced into the previously unthinkable role of them being the world's policeman (which is an interesting but different debate) and only goes to show that international relations is such a minefield that with the best will in the world, no one can really tell what will happen if anyone makes a play in Syria.

I have some Syrian friends from my time out in the Middle East with a young daughter. Thankfully they're still in Saudi but it's heartbreaking to think of what their friends, family and home may be going through just now.