Thanks Rolo, pretty good performance apart from Ori messing up the guitar riff before the solo while Richie was changing guitars! :rolleyes:

Richie looked like he was having fun.

i d like to see more videos from the australian shows...

i think richies impros in wanted dont help the take off towards the finale...


do you think this backing band is better?

Yeah, i agree that they need to straight to the end without the improvs, especially with it being the last song. It comes across somewhat anti-climatic

It's hard to tell, I think the previous band member were all great musicians, it was the lack of rehearsals that caused the issues. The band seemed much tighter at these shows so that's a good sign!

I think because Jon is the voice isn't as much of a cover when the singer of the song is singing the song with different people. I'm really not TRYING to paint you with a Jon-hating brush but I sometimes get whiffs of you being really against him sometimes. I never saw it as a case of people accepting what Jon does as a god-given right. He sang the songs, he's singing the songs so a lot of people don't see it as a cover, it's not a case of accepting what Jon's doing is the right thing. Richie didn't sing the songs originally nor did David so yeah I get where they're coming from.

As far as I know, Matt, there are 2 things that I hold against Jon. One is the Calgary announcement. The other is that just about the time things had settled down a little, he dug it all back up at every opportunity during the promotion of THINFS. Jon's been controlling interviews for 30 years; he knows how avoid a subject unless it's on his agenda to talk about it. IMO, the only purpose achieved by rehashing and embellishing details of an event that had been over and done with for three years was to gain people's sympathy and to remind them that Richie had let everybody down.

Those two things royally pissed me off; and tbh, they still do when I think about them. But they never made me hate Jon. I like him. I admire him for his philanthropy, his ability to front the band and manage BJM with all that entails, and the way he plows through obstacles. I still support him and the band. Just because I don't agree with everything he says or does doesn't mean I'm against him. I'm just as quick to point out his side of things to my friends who are Richie fans as I am to point out Richie's side here when I think either of them is being unfairly judged. Sometimes I question Jon's motives and it's no secret that I don't buy what he says about anything until I check it against what else he said about it, because chances are it's gonna be different. But that doesn't make him evil, as far as I'm concerned; that just makes him a spin doctor who's doing what he has to do to protect and promote the brand.

What seems like me being against Jon is more likely my frustration with the fans who: 1) believe every word Jon says, but think statements from anyone else has to be "confirmed", 2) condemn certain behaviors in others but find a way to ignore, justify, or explain away the same behavior when Jon does it, or 3) believe that Jon's side is the only side to any story because his is the only side that gets aired.

It usually isn't Jon's behavior that I have a problem with at all. It's the way some fans' react to him vs the way they react to anyone else, no matter how similar the situations may be. I can see how pointing out the similarities in the situations could look as if I'm doing it to put Jon down, but that's a misperception.

Case in point: I wasn't criticizingJon for singing BJ songs in his solo shows. I don't think of those as covers, either; and I never said that there was anything wrong with it. I don't think fans should consider any BJ songs he does "covers" because they're his songs; he wrote them and he originally performed them.

I can see now why ppl might think Richie and David are doing covers and Jon isn't. The problem was my assumption that most people understood the word "cover" to mean something similar to the dictionary definition. I had no idea that a "cover" could mean so many different things to people. In my world, where a cover is a song performed by someone other than the original artist or composer, it would be a double-standard to think Richie is covering BJ in his solo shows while thinking Jon isn't; because both of them meet the qualifications of "original artist" and "composer".

Surprisingly, everyone doesn't share the same world view. Lesson learned. :)

Jon is not digging anything up... one, he seems sincerely upset about Richie bailing on him and two, he is strategically playing the media... He knows they want to know more about what happened between him and Richie than the new album. He knows the questions are coming so he's got his generic responses... notice how every response is almost exactly the same in every interview? That's not because the interviewers are asking the same questions... it's because Jon is giving the same answers...

Personally, I believe Jon's responses which are nothing became there really is nothing to say...

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So Jon should've pretended Richie never existed and that his absence had zero influence on the album? :confused:

People wanted to know about the situation with Richie, and if it wasn't talked about, fans would probably be screaming blue murder about Jon using his influence to erase the band's history or whatever.

This. And also, with Jon seeming more humble and open, he had to give reasons for his "stress" the last couple of years and why that affected his ability to perform/sing. Richie fits the bill just perfectly IMHO, and (for all we know) it wouldn't be too far away from the truth now, would it?

Well, that depends on the definition of "original artist". BJ the band? Yes, he's been a member and played the songs. But for me, artist more equals singer, which isn't meant to diminish the influence of the other guys (Richie in particular), but that's just the way I see it. Some may agree, some may disagree...

Saying that absolutely diminishes the roles of the rest of the band, especially Richie as co-writer. In my book they all have as much right to perform those songs without them being considered a cover...

Enough again with blaming the "stress" for his inability to sing....jeez...Jon has confidence issues with his voice, which he thankfully seems to have somewhat overcome, but otherwise his problems are not psychological. His old voice is gone from years of abuse and age...

Probably (though not hopefully), and I didn't mean to say that everything that Jon says is a given fact. In fact, it's not ;-) Also, of course every other band member (at least co-writer, but in my book anyone) can play the songs, it's just that I'd consider it a (or some sort of) cover, but others are free to see that differently...

That's probably why I used the past tense "dug". :)

BUT, now that you mention it...

Why not? That's basically what he did for two years prior to that. The gist of his responses during that time is: "I was gutted by the betrayal by my record company... My heart was broken over the NFL deal I had poured everything into for over 2 years... Richie just decided not to show up one day and for 82 shows after that. No big deal. It's not going to stop the band from moving forward. I've already written some songs (in 2014). We'll probably record next year (2015) and tour sometime in 2016."

True. In 2013. Back when ppl cared about what happened. But at that time, Jon said nothing much beyond "personal reasons" and "he just didn't show up". By the end of 2016, most people were reconciled to the fact that we'd never know what happened and had started moving on.

But Jon had an album to promote. So he dug it all up again and suddenly instead of it being no big deal, he had been utterly devastated by the betrayal by his best friend, heartbroken by his departure and lack of subsequent contact. Suddenly, the label and the NFL were minor players in his trauma and it was all Richie's fault that he couldn't sing (except that he did) and he couldn't write songs (except that he did) and he couldn't even pick up his guitar (except that he did).

He still didn't provide any answers about the situation with Richie. We know nothing now that we didn't know in April 2013. All he did was pluck at people's heartstrings to gain their sympathy and rile them up against Richie again.

And contrary to RDK's comment, if the latest podcast is any indication, he is digging it up again. Koppleman didnt ask about Richie's departure or about how Jon came to write and record THINFS. He asked a question about the recording process in general. Jon is the one who said, "let's talk about the last album, I can talk about that..." and launched into yet another rehash of April 2013.

It's old news. People know that story. What they want to know now is if Richie is going to play at the induction. And Jon's response to that? "Richie is being invited to play." Cool, impersonal, and totally at odds with his emotional replay of Richie's departure.

Key word "seeming". And yup, he had to have a reason for the stress and the pain-driven songs because he had already made up with the record label and it was clear that the fans didn't care about the NFL so that didn't garner any sympathy. All that was left was Richie who, as you say, fits the bill perfectly. So he falls back on that and milks that situation for everything it's worth.

Don't get me wrong. I don't doubt for a minute that Jon was devastated by Richie's departure. But it seems less than coincidental, to me, that he waited for over 3 years to acknowledge emotions that he had previously ignored, denied, or was too proud to admit to. Just in time to promote his new album. And from his comments in the podcast, it seems that he's willing to haul them out again, now, to promote the new songs and tour. Second verse, same as the first.

Actually, it doesn't depend on the definition of "original artist" at all. Because whether you consider Richie to be the original artist or not, it doesn't change the fact that he is, without a doubt, a co-writer of the BJ songs he sings outside of the band; and therefore he doesn't qualify as "someone other than the original artist or composer". But again, that's based on the technical definition of a cover, which obviously doesn't enter into your personal definition. So on your terms, yes, Richie would be covering, which is fine. I repeat, I'm not trying to change anybody's mind about how they define covers. I just see it differently.

As for defining "original artist" I believe if you asked "Who was the artist who originally recorded Wanted Dead or Alive?" the answer from most people, as well as the record label, the albums, the music charts, the critics, Jon, and the band would probably be "Bon Jovi", not "Jon Bon Jovi". But thanks for bringing this full circle and proving my original point that the way some fans view "covers" reveals more than they may realize about how they truly feel when it comes to BJ=JBJ and JBJ=BJ.:)

I usually didn't feed the bashing on Jon or Richie because it's useless and we don't know a thing from the truth... But it piss me off when i read people who write just to let the poison flow...
Jon and Richie are just men... They made mistakes... and they have fellings, like mostly all of us... And you can always read signs of evil if you want to see it....
How Jon could possibly answering in place of Richie? He officialy and publicly made the invitation but if richie doesn't give him a answer... And even if Richie said that he's gonna show up that doesn't really mean that he will... In regards to the past... I love Richie but he's far from reliable. He frequently cancelled shows from solo tour or RSO, he dropped the band in the middle of a tour... At Jon place, i would answering the same.... to just wait and see

And yes, maybe Jon said at the beginning "not a big deal, no hard feelings,..." but that necessarly mean that's the deep truth... Maybe he wasn't able to talk about it at the time... Maybe, at the time he tried to rassure the fans.... There's so much possibility... At the same time, Jon was affected by the problems of his daughter, does he talks about it publicly?... Surely no, it's very personnal... Giive him a break! Jon was affected by many things at the time (Richie's departure was probably not the only problem but surely one of them), he seems vocally and phisically affected... Stop trying to make give him this image of a total manipulator even if it's certainly one of his faces, like the most of us...
Why can't you just enjoy (or not) the music and just let it play... IMO, I don't understand why Richie leaves Bon jovi when I listening to the new sons from the ep's... They have nothing fantastic, just good... I largely prefer to listen to THINFS who give me smile, energy,... But that's ok if he feels that way... Sad for me, but ok... Richie disappointed me by the way he quits... He owns us nothing, but IMO again it's not a sign of respect either... Mostly for the band. He engaged himself in a tour with his friends, at least his partners... The fans buy tickets, airplane and hotel room reservations and then, he doesn't show up... with no explenations... Ok it's his right... But then, don"t expect that the poeple will believe in his words more then Jon's...
Be honest and fair, Jon can't count on richie's words until he really is on stage... And don't forget one thing, Jon was on the first line of fire when fans and journalist were searchin' answers... And if Jon annonce Richie's participation and at the end Richie decide not to come: Who's gonna be in the first line of fire, answering fans and journalist about the absence... Probably not Richie... but Jon who has his defaults but never step back in adversity or trouble... And shows us always respect

I believe Richie f**ked up when he didn't show up and he regretted it and he wanted back in but Jon didn't let him back in.... That is where it is today. I think we would have the real Bon Jovi right now if Jon was a a bit more forgiving

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What gives you this idea?... Richie seems truly the same... Not affected, pretend always to be happy, sayin' that he find a real connection instantly with Orianthi and even make the comparaison with Jon where it taked times... no regrets or anything like that for what i've heard or seen... I'll be glad to see or hear anything going on this way... But even if it's real... I could understand that for Jon, Tico or Dave it's is not so easy to clean the table... Since 2007, Richie is not always reliable... Trust is something difficult to rebuild when it's gone, even for brothers ...

The only thing that I remember along those lines was that after the initial split there was a candid TMZ type video of Richie saying that he thought that things would be resolved by September and that he'd be back on tour with them by then....

Which suggests to me that there were some sort of discussions going on, but they fell through. We will never know what they were, but he must have said September for a reason. My guess would be that either Jon said "no you're not getting you're way, so we'll just carry on without you" or Richie said "screw this, it's clear that I won't be happy in the band anymore, so I'm gone". Would love to have been a fly on the wall. There would have been all sorts of business legalities, contracts, etc to sort out around this time, so the whole thing of them having no contact with Richie since he didn't show up is utter nonsense...

Jon’s been once, twice bitten by Richie. The trust has gone.
Jbj could say to Richie come and play these 30 dates but can he rely on Richie? No.

He has no reason to invite Richie on these dates. They are touring behind an album that Richie didn't play on, I doubt Richie would want to play on them live, plus Phil X is cheaper :mrgreen::cool:

If it was being billed as a greatest hits tour, or a hall of fame tour, then inviting Richie would make more sense...

Oh yeah... no poison flowing there at all. :)

Seriously, I thank you for your respectful comments. You make a lot of valid points, some I've made myself, like if you look for evil, that's what you'll see (except I may have worded it a little more crudely). It kinda goes along with "If you expect the worst from someone, chances are that's what you'll get."

It seems like you may have missed the part where I said that I admire Jon and that there are only 2 things that I hold against him. Two. Two things, over his 30-year career, and over a decade that I've been following this band. I hardly think that qualifies as me demonizing Jon. But I'm not going to belabor that point any further because it's already gone way south of a simple statement I made about fans and covers in a post that, iirc, was at least somewhat related to this thread. Besides, any further explanation will open the door to further derailment, and more bashing and flowing poison.

I have always thought the "no big deal" was Jersey pride talking. And I have to wonder how much Jersey pride, on both sides, is responsible for the way things are.

I appreciate your stand for Jon and all the possible explanations for his statements. (It's nice to have another "maybe-maker" on board.) I would appreciate it just as much if you could extend that same understanding courtesy to Richie; since we don't know any more about his situation than we do about Jon's. But I notice that Richie seems to have missed out on any of your "maybe he..." statements. Maybe it wouldn't hurt for people to give him a break every now and then. A little forgiveness might not be out of order, either. I know. He hasn't asked for forgiveness from the fans. But I don't think there's a rule that says you can't forgive somebody until they ask for it. Forgiveness isn't something to be earned. It's a gift of grace. :)

You asked why I can't just enjoy the music and let it play. It's a beautifully worded question and it gave me pause when I read it, even though I truly have no problem letting the music play on. I harbor no enmity towards Jon. My two hang-ups with him are in the past (for the most part) and they don't affect the way I see him on a daily basis. I only mentioned them to explain to Captain Jovi that, aside from them, I have no problems with Jon. (Of course, then someone questions something and I reply and it builds up to this huge "thing" that's way out of proportion to the original comment, but that seems to happen with a lot of my comments.) :)

All that aside, I have a question for you. It probably won't be as poetic or thought-provoking as yours, but here goes: There was a short period a couple months ago when, despite our differences with each other or any issues we had with the band, we united, as one fan base, to reach a common goal; and we were amazing! We totally blew the competition away. Unfortunately, less than 24 hours later, the bickering started again. Why can't we all just enjoy and bask in the knowledge that our boyz have received this huge, well-deserved honor and there's a good chance that they're all gonna come together in a few months to celebrate, and stop expecting the worst from any of them?

Not to mention more reliable.

Fair point, but he doesn't have the qualities that make Bon Jovi (the band) Bon Jovi for some (THAT voice, or THAT soul/passion in his playing). Ho Hum

If Richie did come back one day, I'd be more than happy if Phil was the backup guitar player rather than Shanks though.

The other big difference: Phil wants to be there. Richie does not. It’s one of those things that just has to be accepted because clinging to the past is useless.

True.
The future for Richie doesn't look good with RSO - I cant believe he left to that kind of uninspiring bubble gum pop. OK Leave and show us why you wanted to leave to play full out guitar or Blues rock..but this, anything but this??
Its just so dull and lifeless. They have no chemistry on stage or when it comes to music. They may get on well and have chemistry between the sheets but luckily we dont get to see that!

100% Agree.

I've actually come to terms with this is my own way. I do not get what I want from a Bon Jovi show with the current line up, and initially said that I would not go. I would however go and see a Jon solo show. I asked myself how that worked? I came to the conclusion that I would not be expecting what I would call a Bon Jovi show at a JBJ concert. If I accept that I'm not going to get that with the current line up and almost treat it as a JBJ show then I can live with it and enjoy it for what is it...dependent on Jon's vocal performance of course.

The leaked Sex video is coming later this year! :mrgreen:
Then you can all judge Richie on his bedroom skills as well :rolleyes:

I’ve no sympathy at all for RIchie. He’s a sloppy, lazy, egotistical idiot.

Everyone of those insults is justified and you know it.

He shit on his band mates & fans to pursue this garbage? (Putting aside musical preferences, the whole set-up and execution is amateurish and often embarrassing)

I’m not trolling or criticising anyone who does enjoy RSO. This is entirely a personal opinion from a former huge RS fan.


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Yawn....get over it, It was a long time ago...

And yet the farce that is RSO continues to make people question why he left Bon Jovi is such a shitty way. He’s hardly elevated himself, has he?


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I think you're missing the point. RSO shows exactly why he left Bon Jovi, but it's all been gone over time and time again and is getting boring.

Yes, I’m missing your point.

RSO shows why he left BJ? Eh?

He left them to form a band with his GF who are directionless in almost everything they attempt, have served up erratic live shows and can’t sell out tiny venues. He offers nothing as a frontman (not singer) and has taken an age to serve up average music.

What’s your point?


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If you bother to read back in this thread and not just pop in to post when you are feeling butt hurt about RS leaving the band you'd know... ;)

Grow up mate. I don’t hang off every word you or anyone else posts. And I think I’ve spent enough time and money over the past 31yrs on RS/Bon Jovi to warrant an opinion on a message board.

You mention me missing points yet you are missing a glaring one. It may well be years since RIchie bailed but it’s relevant each time RSO fumble through another missed opportunity because people can’t fathom why he let people down to serve up this shite. It’s not a hard concept to grasp.

If he was playing his best guitar and commanding stages as well as delivering quality music then I’d doubt people would be saying “hang on, this is the best RS I’ve ever seen and he’s actually flourishing since he left BJ.....BUT he was a shitbag how he left so **** him”....

It wouldn’t work like that. The need to bring up how he left would be overshadowed by the brilliance of what he was serving up. Unfortunately, that isn’t the case.


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FINALLY!! Thank you, Jeeper! I've been waiting for nearly 5 years for somebody who knows the full story to tell me why Richie left, and thanks to you, now we know.

And we also know, thanks to you, that Richie's not just a sloppy, lazy, egotistical idiot. He's a psychic, sloppy, lazy, egotistical idiot!

Who woulda thunk?

It all makes perfect sense now. Richie left the band in April 2013 to form a band and make beautiful music with a girlfriend he wouldn't even meet until the end of December 2013!

Now, that's what I call planning ahead!!

Maybe if this whole music career thing doesn't work out, Richie can start his own psychic reading hotline! And since you're so well-informed and intuitive, maybe he'll let you help him out on the days he just decides to not show up. (C'mon...you know it'll happen. Looks like everybody knows it will happen!!)

Since I used to work in Marketing and I'm feeling generous, I'll even help you get started with your Marketing and Promotion:


Psychics-R-Us: Pick up the phone. Give us a call. We'll tell you anything you want to believe and promise that minor annoyances, like facts, never stand in the way of the totally un-fukkin-founded truths we share. 1.900.PSY.KIXX. Call today!

I'm not the one that signed in here just to call Richie a "shitbag", "farce", "shitty", "sloppy", "lazy", "egotistical", "idiot".

That's a proper well thought out, grown up conversation right there! :mrgreen:

You kiddin' me?? Keeper of The Truth you may be. But, man, your people reading skills suck if you really believe it wouldn't work like that. If Richie were to do something brilliant, that would only piss some of these people off even more! It'd push one or two of them right over the edge! Richie disses their idol AND comes out looking good? No Jon Fan worth his or her fan club card and I.D. bracelet would ever tolerate that. Somebody would take out a hit on him!

Is it only children who use profanity, then? As for lazy, egotistical etc, how can you disagree when there are so many examples of such behaviour?

You don’t want a reasoned, informed debate because that would include criticism of Richie which you clearly can’t take.



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Are you kidding me...as I said scroll back there has been lots of reasoned, informed and MATURE debates here...involving both positives and negatives with Richie.

That's not what we are getting from you, coming here and throwing your toys out of the pram.

I'm not going to go through and rehash everything that has already been discussed here time and time again just because you decided to show up today and act like a child. If you want to add comments to what's previously posted without name calling and generally coming across like an ass, I'd be happy to debate any of it with you. If you can't be bothered that your problem not mine...

The Richie Sambora & Orianthi album
 

Well, this is a turn up for the books. A citation from JackieBlue.

I don’t want to get all pedantic but I never said what you have implied. We agree he did leave, yes? And we can agree he then formed a band with his GF? But when did I say the REASON he left was for that? I merely stated what he did. I don’t know why he left.

Let me add, as I know you get very particular...I questioned why he left to join RSO and then simply replied what he did. He did form a band with his GF. That’s what he went on to do.

But IF he did leave solely for that reason, then he’s a bigger idiot than I ever thought possible. More likely, he was an incoherent, intoxicated liability that bit the hand that fed one too many times. But that’s all conjecture, isn’t it?


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Debate me then. Prove me wrong. The only toys out the pram are yours because I called a grown man an idiot and pointed out he’s lazy and egotistical.

Are comments only worthy of your approval if they don’t use naughty words?

I don’t post often as I’m busy. That doesn’t mean my opinions are invalid. You’re far far too emotional with this whole RSO thing. I’ve not named called you have I? Stop being so touchy.


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