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-   -   Feb 14, 2017 - USA - Tampa - Amalie Arena (https://drycounty.com/jovitalk/showthread.php?t=69858)

Rdkopper 02-15-2017 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1218476)
That's true, time will tell and songs can filter in and out but it doesn't change the fact that it's been the same album cuts tour to tour to tour.
Jon stated that the more albums they put out, the tougher it is to put together set-lists...

Between playing the new stuff, the hits, and the stuff that fulfills him, he's challenged... He always loved Sleep and Lost Highway (One of the best lyrics he's claimed to writing - Oh patron saint of lonely souls) so if that's his thing, let it be his thing...

If I had to pick the 2 worst Jovi songs on an actual album, my choices would be Joey and Working Man... Working Man just happens to be in the set and as much as that eats me up, I'm not seeing this band for another month and a half so hopefully by that time, it'll be removed and it's not worth complaining about now...

Rdkopper 02-15-2017 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by efpg0708 (Post 1218478)
My main issue is not just about the static setlists, but with the overall performance of the band. As I said ... they still put on a good shows for the casuals, but for the majority of the diehards they don't. And it's not about watching it on youtube: I was there in 2008, 2010, 2011 and 2013. You might ask: How can you complain about the 2017 set if you didn't watch one gig ? Simple ... because it's clear that Jon is glued to the mic stand, his voice is gone (and that means that most of the GOOD rarities won't be played) and most of all:

1. This House Is Not For Sale
2. Knockout
3. You Give Love A Bad Name
4. Born To Be My Baby
5. We Weren't Born To Follow
6. Lost Highway
7. Roller Coaster
8. Work For The Working Man
9. I'll Sleep When I'm Dead
10. We Got It Goin' On
11. Who Says You Can't Go Home
12. It's My Life
13. We Don't Run
14. God Bless This Mess
15. Scars on This Guitar
16. The Devil's in the Temple
17. Lay Your Hands On Me
18. Blood on Blood
19. Have a Nice Day
20. Bad Medicine
21. Keep the Faith
-------------------------------
22. Someday I'll Be Saturday Night
23. Wanted Dead or Alive
24. Prayer

I have seen these songs played to death a hundred times. It's just not fun anymore. So for me and for a lot of diehards, an excelent performance of Lost Highway, Born to Follow and Who Says still is boring, because the songs are boring.

As for the setlists ... They can easily shake things up. Phil was able to learn songs in between shows in 2011 and 2013, and Shanks has been with the guys for 12 years now.
Jon's voice is what it is right now and that dictates much of the set lists... I don't agree that Jon is glued to the mic... After a few knee operations, I don't expect a 55 year old man to do jumping jacks either... He's moving around and invented other things to do...

Also, out of the songs you highlighted in red, most of them were hits, singles, or justifiable... So in essence you want to Jon to cater to you and you only...

You Give Love A Bad Name - Hit Song from 80's
Born To Be My Baby - Hit Song from 80's
Who Says You Can't Go Home - Hit Song from '05
We Weren't Born To Follow - 2010 Lead Single and the last one to get decent radio play (minor hit)

Lost Highway - Jon's Songs he Does For Himself
I'll Sleep When I'm Dead - Jon's Songs he Does For Himself

We Got It Goin' On - Great rare track crowd pleaser

Work For The Working Man - Needs to go

B.J. Always 02-15-2017 07:40 PM
The thing about the set list that always gets me is that before the Tour you hear from someone in the band how many songs they have to chose from. And yet to see the set list it seems like they don't have many songs to chose from at all :confused:

Rdkopper 02-15-2017 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denmad (Post 1218477)
They tried something new in Sunrise and it ended up with a big mistake:

https://youtu.be/A_mjP2HvCbE?t=59s
This is why I love this member... We are always in agreement... Thanks for posting that... Just proves my point...

B.J. Always 02-15-2017 07:48 PM
I can't get that link to work for me. But I remember someone saying that Jon sang the wrong verse of a song in a show. If other members mess up, Jon gives them the "stink eye". What happens when Jon messes up?

bonjovi90 02-15-2017 08:21 PM
Just listened to the first 3 shows on SBD and I really hope Jon gets at least comfortable enough to move around the stage more and show some showmanship. His vocals struggles on some songs are worrying...

jovifan93 02-15-2017 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1218480)
Jon stated that the more albums they put out, the tougher it is to put together set-lists...

Between playing the new stuff, the hits, and the stuff that fulfills him, he's challenged... He always loved Sleep and Lost Highway (One of the best lyrics he's claimed to writing - Oh patron saint of lonely souls) so if that's his thing, let it be his thing...

If I had to pick the 2 worst Jovi songs on an actual album, my choices would be Joey and Working Man... Working Man just happens to be in the set and as much as that eats me up, I'm not seeing this band for another month and a half so hopefully by that time, it'll be removed and it's not worth complaining about now...
While you're mostly right, don't count on Working Man being removed from the set anytime soon. Why? Because I'd bet real money that Jon put it in the setlist for a reason, and that is because of the new president. And probably one of a few things that led to those twitter posts about Jon going political, which usually isn't his thing, but I can understand.

Like it or not, but I guess that's Jon's reason for including it in the first place, and the reason it isn't likely to go away any time soon.

BTW, I love Joey and even kind of like Working Man, but that's another story ;-)

jovifan93 02-15-2017 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1218485)
Just listened to the first 3 shows on SBD and I really hope Jon gets at least comfortable enough to move around the stage more and show some showmanship. His vocals struggles on some songs are worrying...
That's what I don't get (besides the awful vocal mix on the SBD recordings). His voice is not actually that terrible or totally shot, it's terribly inconsistent. Some parts sound just fine, some excellent, and some are just off key or plain terrible. But those are not neccessarily the vocally demanding or high notes. That's what puzzles me. Like hitting the high notes in BOB and Always, but struggling with the Prayer verses.

Could be due to different singing techniques he's learnt to apply, which could also be why his voice sometimes sounds thin and sometimes much fuller. Maybe he should use the technique he's learned to hit the higher notes for the whole of the songs, but maybe that wouldn't sound too great either...

symbeline 02-15-2017 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.J. Always (Post 1218484)
I can't get that link to work for me. But I remember someone saying that Jon sang the wrong verse of a song in a show. If other members mess up, Jon gives them the "stink eye". What happens when Jon messes up?
I like to picture Richie watching the videos and laughing himself silly every time Jon makes a mistake

Joking aside, I hope Jon's diva attitude NEVER makes a comeback. After everything that has happened, I can't imagine him throwing a hissy fit when somebody screws up

symbeline 02-15-2017 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jovifan93 (Post 1218487)
That's what I don't get (besides the awful vocal mix on the SBD recordings). His voice is not actually that terrible or totally shot, it's terribly inconsistent. Some parts sound just fine, some excellent, and some are just off key or plain terrible. But those are not neccessarily the vocally demanding or high notes. That's what puzzles me. Like hitting the high notes in BOB and Always, but struggling with the Prayer verses.

Could be due to different singing techniques he's learnt to apply, which could also be why his voice sometimes sounds thin and sometimes much fuller. Maybe he should use the technique he's learned to hit the higher notes for the whole of the songs, but maybe that wouldn't sound too great either...
This. I noticed it during the promo shows
Quote:
Originally Posted by symbeline (Post 1210832)
I wonder if he really has a vocal coach, he seems to try different things to get the notes out in every song and even during the same song
and also when he sang Runaway from the first time in years

Quote:
Originally Posted by symbeline (Post 1215919)
YGLABN sounded really good but like that Runaway from a few weeks ago it’s a bit of a mess, as if Jon is trying different approaches in the same song and not all of them are working
He's doing different things during the "difficult" songs and not all of them work. Is almost as if he's trying desperately to hold on to a technique until he can't anymore and then improvises

It doesn't explain why he struggles with easy songs, specially on the verses

manarosi 02-15-2017 10:02 PM
gonna try to explain it in a really fast way...he's trying to get back to his full chest's voice (which he hasn't got trained in like 15 years) and get rid of his nasal voice. Now what makes him incosistent is that to do that he just stiffens up (all those strange faces he does are because of this and because of his habit to sing with his nose) and his throat closes... forgive me for my english but i'm italian :mrgreen:

Quote:
Originally Posted by symbeline (Post 1218489)
This. I noticed it during the promo shows and also when he sang Runaway from the first time in years



He's doing different things during the "difficult" songs and not all of them work. Is almost as if he's trying desperately to hold on to a technique until he can't anymore and then improvises

It doesn't explain why he struggles with easy songs, specially on the verses

Captain_jovi 02-15-2017 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1218480)
Jon stated that the more albums they put out, the tougher it is to put together set-lists...

Between playing the new stuff, the hits, and the stuff that fulfills him, he's challenged... He always loved Sleep and Lost Highway (One of the best lyrics he's claimed to writing - Oh patron saint of lonely souls) so if that's his thing, let it be his thing...
If he wants to do his thing, fine, but his thing of repeatedly bringing out the songs he loves has made the setlists too similar to last time. If the hits have to be played and the new tracks have to be played that just leaves the album cuts and rarities. If those stay the same as well then there's no real changes. Something has to give somewhere.

bjcrazycpa 02-15-2017 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1218493)
gonna try to explain it in a really fast way...he's trying to get back to his full chest's voice (which he hasn't got trained in like 15 years) and get rid of his nasal voice. Now what makes him incosistent is that to do that he just stiffens up (all those strange faces he does are because of this and because of his habit to sing with his nose) and his throat closes... forgive me for my english but i'm italian :mrgreen:
To this non singer, your explanation makes sense. And your English was perfect so no need to apologize.

Eveline 02-15-2017 10:49 PM
Well, this whole tour is one big improvisation and Jon's attempts to sound better than ever shouldn't surprise anyone. One thing is sure: Jon and Rich will make up before they die and that's all that counts for me. The tours and particular concerts don't bother me that much. The magic is still there. I still believe.

Bounce7800 02-15-2017 10:53 PM
I don't buy the excuses about not changing the set lists. These are professional musicians who know the material very well. At the very least, they should be switching around the THINFS songs, they've played the whole album at least 4 times.

That new years day mistake that was linked was pretty small and at least Jon has mellowed to let the odd mistake slide these days, probably knowing how bad he sounds.

As has been said by many, these filler songs have been doing the rounds for a decade. Wgigo, follow, lost highway. The excuses are lame, are people seriously saying that in this bands vast catalogue they couldn't replace these songs? "Oh but Wgigo lets him wave to the fans with seats behind him" So what? He could do one wild night and do the same thing. Swap out lost highway for I'd die for you, follow for Runaway, then even if the set list stayed that way for the next few months it's something slightly different.

Ignoring the new songs, if you asked a casual concert goer to make a bon Jovi set list, most of those songs would not be anywhere near it.

symbeline 02-15-2017 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1218493)
gonna try to explain it in a really fast way...he's trying to get back to his full chest's voice (which he hasn't got trained in like 15 years) and get rid of his nasal voice. Now what makes him incosistent is that to do that he just stiffens up (all those strange faces he does are because of this and because of his habit to sing with his nose) and his throat closes... forgive me for my english but i'm italian :mrgreen:
I get what you mean. But he's been doing those strange faces since 2008 (he did them before, but not as noticeably, Giants Stadium from 2006 comes to mind) when he started getting better in terms of hitting the notes but more nasal. I actually know a little bit about singing (emphasis on a little) so I never understood why he looked and sounded like this while singing through his nose when it's supposed to be a gentler method, he shouldn't be straining so much! Or maybe different vocal coaches have different techniques and mine is shit lol

Thanks for the technical info. I actually think I remember another poster who also knew about singing and answered me a while back, but I haven't been able to find the thread. I love learning more ;)

DryCounty 02-15-2017 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounce7800 (Post 1218499)
I don't buy the excuses about not changing the set lists. These are professional musicians who know the material very well. At the very least, they should be switching around the THINFS songs, they've played the whole album at least 4 times.

That new years day mistake that was linked was pretty small and at least Jon has mellowed to let the odd mistake slide these days, probably knowing how bad he sounds.

As has been said by many, these filler songs have been doing the rounds for a decade. Wgigo, follow, lost highway. The excuses are lame, are people seriously saying that in this bands vast catalogue they couldn't replace these songs? "Oh but Wgigo lets him wave to the fans with seats behind him" So what? He could do one wild night and do the same thing. Swap out lost highway for I'd die for you, follow for Runaway, then even if the set list stayed that way for the next few months it's something slightly different. .
Couldn't agree more.

jovifan93 02-15-2017 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounce7800 (Post 1218499)
I don't buy the excuses about not changing the set lists. These are professional musicians who know the material very well. At the very least, they should be switching around the THINFS songs, they've played the whole album at least 4 times.

That new years day mistake that was linked was pretty small and at least Jon has mellowed to let the odd mistake slide these days, probably knowing how bad he sounds.

As has been said by many, these filler songs have been doing the rounds for a decade. Wgigo, follow, lost highway. The excuses are lame, are people seriously saying that in this bands vast catalogue they couldn't replace these songs? "Oh but Wgigo lets him wave to the fans with seats behind him" So what? He could do one wild night and do the same thing. Swap out lost highway for I'd die for you, follow for Runaway, then even if the set list stayed that way for the next few months it's something slightly different.

Ignoring the new songs, if you asked a casual concert goer to make a bon Jovi set list, most of those songs would not be anywhere near it.
True, but then you'd have more hits/classic songs and it would look more like a nostalgia band/concert. They always brag about how It's My Life and other songs/albums brought a whole new generation of fans to the band. I'd guess that's got something to do with it, as well - play some songs the newer fans could relate to (from Crush onwards, i.e. from the 2000s).

That wouldn't rule out One Wild Night or Love's The Only Rule or something like that, yes. But just imagine for a second that if Jon thinks highly of a song, or reckons that fans do, then why give it to the audience at show A and not play it at show B? Maybe he just doesn't want to disappoint "us". Or it's just his "two for you, one for me" thing, which is totally fine with me.

Don't get me wrong - I love I'd Die For You, Runaway, and so on. But I also f*cking love the talkbox solo in WGIGO, probably more than OWN. Tastes are different. Hell, I like WWBTF, even ILTT and CC, and totally love songs like The More Things Change. And I'm not a casual, new fan, or from the States ;-)

Also, while great for us die-hards, the 3-4 song acoustic set they used to do in the middle far more drags the casual audience down than mid-tempo songs like LH, like they're doing now...

CLEYoungGun21 02-15-2017 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denmad (Post 1218477)
They tried something new in Sunrise and it ended up with a big mistake:

https://youtu.be/A_mjP2HvCbE?t=59s


Couldn't pick up on the mistake here... what did I miss


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Javier 02-16-2017 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLEYoungGun21 (Post 1218506)
Couldn't pick up on the mistake here... what did I miss


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The only thing I can actually hear is that Shanks went straight into the guitar lick when the song actually went straight into the second verse after the chorus. That small second that hardly anybody noticed or care about was the "Big mistake"??

Captain_jovi 02-16-2017 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier (Post 1218507)
The only thing I can actually hear is that Shanks went straight into the guitar lick when the song actually went straight into the second verse after the chorus. That small second that hardly anybody noticed or care about was the "Big mistake"??
God forbid they make a tiny mistake like that, would much rather the same setlist for years to come!!

manarosi 02-16-2017 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by symbeline (Post 1218502)
I get what you mean. But he's been doing those strange faces since 2008 (he did them before, but not as noticeably, Giants Stadium from 2006 comes to mind) when he started getting better in terms of hitting the notes but more nasal. I actually know a little bit about singing (emphasis on a little) so I never understood why he looked and sounded like this while singing through his nose when it's supposed to be a gentler method, he shouldn't be straining so much! Or maybe different vocal coaches have different techniques and mine is shit lol

Thanks for the technical info. I actually think I remember another poster who also knew about singing and answered me a while back, but I haven't been able to find the thread. I love learning more ;)
Oh yeah i'm an amateur singer so i know just a little too! But talking about it With my teacher just helped me understand a few things! What we think is that he chose to "sing with his nose" during crush tour to keep his chords healthy and then just couldn't go back because of all the smoke thing... He should be straining because with all the smoke he had 'til 2008 his entire throat and lungs area is a complete mess so that he can't take air(and sing) to his oral cavity easily.. Don't know if he can have surgery though

Denmad 02-16-2017 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier (Post 1218507)
That small second that hardly anybody noticed or care about was the "Big mistake"??
Yeah, I agree it's not that big, especially on that audience recording it sounds like a small mistake. But if you listen to the soundboard, then it's much more noticeable (especially with the first listen).

Personally, I like mistakes like this in NYD, because it makes perfomance more special, more real. But I'm not JBJ. He probably wasn't happy about that one.

BTW. I WANT DIFFERENT SETLIST EVERY NIGHT as everybody of you, but I can understand a little diversity in the first weeks, because in my opinion, those 95 rehearsed songs is a myth. They just have a list of 95 songs, but nobody said that all of them were rehearsed this year.

DestinationJovi 02-16-2017 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1218508)
God forbid they make a tiny mistake like that, would much rather the same setlist for years to come!!
I was at the show and didn't notice the mistake. I hardly notice it on video.

But I for shit sure noticed I got the same set list as Altanta (with the exception of the Devil's/NYD swap).

efpg0708 02-16-2017 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1218481)
Jon's voice is what it is right now and that dictates much of the set lists... I don't agree that Jon is glued to the mic... After a few knee operations, I don't expect a 55 year old man to do jumping jacks either... He's moving around and invented other things to do...

Also, out of the songs you highlighted in red, most of them were hits, singles, or justifiable... So in essence you want to Jon to cater to you and you only...

You Give Love A Bad Name - Hit Song from 80's
Born To Be My Baby - Hit Song from 80's
Who Says You Can't Go Home - Hit Song from '05
We Weren't Born To Follow - 2010 Lead Single and the last one to get decent radio play (minor hit)

Lost Highway - Jon's Songs he Does For Himself
I'll Sleep When I'm Dead - Jon's Songs he Does For Himself

We Got It Goin' On - Great rare track crowd pleaser

Work For The Working Man - Needs to go
You are missing my point. I don't think that is a bad setlist for the casual fan. In fact, despite two or three songs, it's a good setlist. I said this is a bad setlist for the diehards, because he's playing the same fillers since forever. If you take a look at what most of the diehards here are complaining about these sets and performances, you'd noticed that it has nothing to do with catering to me only ...

They are professional and acomplishes musicians. There's no excuse for the lack of changes, since they have an entire album rehearsed to play live.

symbeline 02-16-2017 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DestinationJovi (Post 1218512)
I was at the show and didn't notice the mistake. I hardly notice it on video.

But I for shit sure noticed I got the same set list as Altanta (with the exception of the Devil's/NYD swap).
What's the general reaction to the new songs?

DestinationJovi 02-16-2017 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by symbeline (Post 1218516)
What's the general reaction to the new songs?
Lots of sitting.

Bounce7800 02-16-2017 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DestinationJovi (Post 1218519)
Lots of sitting.
Thats a shame, especially as surely most people with a ticket had the album bundled with it?

How can we expect radio to care about new material when the fans don't? I don't get it, at least listen to the new album before you go to a concert.

bjcrazycpa 02-16-2017 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounce7800 (Post 1218521)
Thats a shame, especially as surely most people with a ticket had the album bundled with it?

How can we expect radio to care about new material when the fans don't? I don't get it, at least listen to the new album before you go to a concert.
Totally agree with you!

MellyMel 02-17-2017 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DestinationJovi (Post 1218519)
Lots of sitting.
I noticed this too. However, one thing I'll say about that, jovi's fan base is getting older. A lot of people around me weren't able to stand 2 1/2 hours.


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