That is horrible

Just watched 'Blood On Blood'. I have never seen Jon that bad. It makes 2003 look brilliant. Pronunciation, technique, range...it's all gone.

And here come the naysayers and debbie downers! Now, I saw the show live from periscope, I will agree that Jon did struggle a bit with his voice, and Blood and Blood was a struggle for him to get through, but you know what? I saw the audience through out the show, they were enjoying themselves, singing along, and having a good time. Also, I personally appreciate Jon for at least making the effort to give his best, even it may not always be 100% he would like his voice to be, but he soldiers on and gives the best performance he can. I see the audience showing there appreciation, and that I think at the end of the day that is what matters, if the fans in the arena enjoyed the show, then that should be good enough for the rest of us. But I know even saying this some here will get on my case that I am a "Jon apologist", but thats ok.

I never trust people critical of a show they were not at. There's a guy on the Springsteen board who swears Brisbane Night 2 was the best show of the whole tour, but when I listen to it, I can't even get through it because it's garbage to me. Like with a lot of things, I guess you had to be there.

While I love that he's not afraid to take on Always, it makes me wince seeing him struggle, it just looks like he's in so much pain. That can't be good for your vocals. At least he laughs it off at the end that it's hard for him to sing this song at 55 years old..

But we aren't rating the quality of the experience, we are rating the quality of the performance. And the performance was horrible. That has nothing to do with if you were there or not, that's a fact. Then it's another thing if you enjoyed it because of seeing it through a live experience, but that doesn't change the fact.

Mmmmmm so I watched through Always and Blood on Blood. I am no singing expert but it did sound pretty rough at times. Few things I wonder, should you play BOB after Always like that. The voice was clearly shot during Always to then hit another song with high bits in the chorus, there were times he was not even singing and when he had to concentrate on that, the guitar playing went out the window.
Now I assume there was something wrong with guitar, looking round etc but then the guy brought the replacement and clearly was told nah, no point, I need to sing! So, we talk about he puts easier songs in the set for himself.......so why not play a few easier ones after a big hit like Always to let voice recover or In These Arms with Davy on vocals??
The there is the hanging on to the mike until it nearly breaks. It almost looks like he is trying too hard which could make it worse. I wonder what it would be like if he walked and sang at the same time?
Final point, i did enjoy Phil's outro on Always!Love the guy just up there happily playing away!

What else could his issue be


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sweet mistake by David Rashbaum at the end of Always I just picked up on, I'm surprised he didn't get the stink eye. It's right in the final line of "I'll be there til the..." Tico looks over that way like he's thinking wtf and then nods when he fixes it. Missed it the first couple times around because I was focusing on JBJ.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I don't think anyone objects to you voicing your opinion here, rosa3. That's what an open forum is for. From what I've seen, it's only when you start telling others they shouldn't voice their opinions that people seem to get up in arms. That's not being a "Jon apologist" or even trying to get people to see things from a different perspective. It comes across as an attempt at censorship and that doesn't go over well in any forum.

I understand that it seems like people are hypercritical on JT. I thought the same thing when I first started lurking here. It seemed to me like they mostly spoke negatively about the band, in general, and about Jon and Richie, in particular. I still think some are overly critical, at times. But I've come to realize that the most critical among us seem that way because they love the band or because they love the band that used to be, and consequently they hold a high standard for their performances. And while they can still appreciate a good effort even when it doesn't reach that bar, it's disappointing nevertheless.

I think we all understand, too, that people who are actually at the shows may enjoy a completely different experience; but that's not our experience so it's not what we can critique. It doesn't make the critique any less valid, imo.

Some people are less tolerant of the quality of the band's performances nowadays than others are, to be sure; but they're still entitled to their opinions, just as you and I are.

Feel free to express a different opinion or disagree at will. I would just try to avoid telling others what their opinions should be, or saying they shouldn't be here unless they have only good things to say about Jon or the band. That's never been what JT is about, at least as long as I've been here. It's one of the things I appreciate about this board. People openly express their honest opinions - good or bad - and for the most part allow others to do the same.

Perfectly stated ! This kind of behavior is very annoying and childish.

There's one thing I've been thinking ... if Jon wants to play Always, why doesn't he pick up his acoustic guitar and play a downtuned version of it ? They did that with In These Arms in 1996 and it worked beautifuly. I know it will lack the punch and power of the original, but I'm sure the crowd would eat it up and it'd be a lot less painful for him and for us diehards.

Discussed in another thread (in general) is psychological because of his inconsistency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol like Jon is in any position to give the stink eye for a bum note these days.

Always was bad.

BOB was worse.

So painful to watch. I can't see how he can go on like this for much longer.

Tico also messed up in Always for one hit.. he hit the snare going into the first chorus instead of the block.. haha

Touche!!! Perhaps that's why we didn't see it.


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Don't listen to these douchebags, girl, you're amazing just the way you are!!!

On a serious note, that Always was a disaster. I can understand struggling on the chorus, but he could not even sing the verses. Even the Seoul 2015 performance was slghtly better as the crowd sang so loud they covered for several of Jon's shortcomings.

That final "till the stars don't shine.." part broke my heart. That's it. He worked as hard as he could to improve, but he's done. I guess all there's left is to thank him for giving us that last vintage JBJ performance in Greenville, which was very decent, but, like I predicted at the time, that was Jon at 120% effort and that is never sustainable over the course of the show, let alone the tour.

Thank you for the memories!

At least that's one positive effect of Jon's vocal issues, that the stink eye is confined to the past. He's seemed much more easy going and laughed off mistakes more so than in the past.

Loads of videos up for this gig, only missing Devils In The Temple.

Yes yes yes a thousand times yes! He states that its a high song shouldnt be singing it at his age etc... then stop rearrange it pick the acoustic up and go for it... crowd sing along whatever I no id lap it up! A bit like what Myles Kennedy from Alterbridge does with "Watch Over You"... and for crying out loud give DB "In These Arms" 🖒

It'll be like "Forever" from Kiss.

One of their biggest hits but Paul Stanley really can't sing it anymore. There's a video of a acoustic version on a fan event, he can't sing either way.

The only way would be rework the arrangements and do something like TLFR, but we know nobody likes it. Almost all songs turned into lullaby.

Spot on. When hearing Jon nowadays it's a comforting thought that it sucks even more to be a Kiss fan. With Kiss and Bon Jovi being my two favorite bands I've had pretty rough luck concerning lead singers lately :-P

A different video of Always. More crowd sing-along in the audio. Slightly more tolerable? Maybe? (Trying to find a positive)
https://youtu.be/fCjcMJ6nb2s


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It doesn't have to be the TLFR version. Jon sings the TLFR version of Always an octave lower than the original. I'm talking about bringing the song one whole step down and play it like they played In These Arms in 1996.

Always is much better than the seoul 2015 performance

I've listened to Always twice from this show now. Is it just me who doesn't think it's THAT bad?? Okay, it isn't great at all but I've definitely heard worse and it could have been much worse.

A fair amount is shaky, no denying that but I was expecting to cringe more than I did. I think it's how Jon looks that's more off putting than anything.

Phil X solo was superb.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

Finally watched 'Always'. He sounds like he's crying while singing. It's as if his heart and soul is giving it his all but his head's saying 'no mate' and it's just pouring out to a degree where it's unlistenable. 'Never been that bothered by Jon's voice when it's bad but this is just really, really bad.

I get it, in the Always case you mean to bring half step down of a already half step down version. Is that correct?

In These Arms and Livin' In Sin both are in E on the albums, but are played in C# live (played in D but with guitars in Eb-tuning) so both songs has been lowered 1 1/2 step compared to the album.

As Always also are in E I can't see why they just don't do the same for it. Yes, the verse are already quite low in E but so are In These Arms but it still works downtuned. Of course I always prefer songs to be played in its original key if manageable, but if Jon wants to keep playing Always they have to lower it to D. Jon would still struggle as it would be very high despite lowering it, but it would still make a huge difference.

He'd find it easier to struggle through the low notes on the verse than the high ones on the choruses. It's just idiotic that he insists on doing it in Eb. What the hell Jon, it's okay not to sing like you're 30 forever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's like he's trying a little bit too hard to prove something...while saying the exact opposite.

Actually no. They should bring it a whole step down (from E to D), so it would be played in C# due to the Eb tuning of the guitars. I reckon that would be suitable for his voice nowadays and wouldn't be the snoozfest that the TLFR versions were (with the exception of the Blaze intro, I loved that).

Jon needs to drop Always. He's butchering it. Fair play to him for giving it a go but surely it can't be helping his already fragile voice?

Love Phil X, but his use of bends really irritates at times. They are often out of tune and spoil the mood of a solo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This would certainly help him, but wouldn't make the song bleach?

Is there any way of somehow editing the songs into those keys in a video or audio file for those non musically minded of us to hear how it would sound? Is that even possible?

Yup, I could drop the pitch of a song down a whole key, semi, whichever. Sounds like a neat idea.

I just tried it with the studio version, which sounds absolutely awful, because any pitch correction of more than 1 half step always does. But then I had the idea of taking a live version of Always (don't ask me where it was from, but it's a good one), which is already tuned down 1 half step, and tune that down 1 half step further. Here's the result:

https://we.tl/YyhEdSyMRD

Doesn't sound so bad and would be easier for Jon on the high notes, as well as giving his voice more time to rest in the verses, because they are easier for his current, turned darker voice as well.

EDIT: oops, I should've read more carefully. So this version is a full step down from the studio version, not the alreay down-tuned live version as efpg0708 suggested...

Cheers for that, doesn't sound so bad although it helps that the starting point is one of my favourite live versions of the song. I'd definitely be against the TLFR versions coming back, they were just snoozefests, Blaze aside.

I've never listened to the TLFR cd though I own it (turned it off after the first minute, tooooo sloooooow), but this Always is one of my faves ever:


So yeah, it could work if Jon is into the song AND moves around. He could do the TLFR version and walk at the same time (I hope) so it would be 100% better than seeing him on the verge of collapsing and getting 1/3 of the song right.

Of course you are going to enjoy it better if you are at the show. I don't even know why are debating it, any decent band/artist will make the most difficult songs work and you won't notice major flaws until you go home and watch the videos. I've heard Always live and thought it was perfect and watched the show later on YT and it was nowhere near perfect.
This is why Jon isn't giving up on Always (kudos to him btw). Fans at the show will think it's a good version for a 55 year old, and will also assume his desperate clinging to the mic and shutting his eyes is passionate singing/concentration and that's to be expected with a difficult song, but we know better. The question is, will this be harmful in the long term? A couple of Always per tour won't kill Jon's voice, I guess, but he's so hellbent on proving he can sing it and it seems to take a huge toll on him. That's where I'd draw the line honestly. Singing it once with all you have is fine. Being willing to destroy your voice for proving a point, not so much :(

Totally agree. If future shows are compromised because he's desperate to prove he CAN still sing it, then it's foolish.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk