Just watched it. Something is definitely up but no idea what.

Before most of you overreact, lets just note some facts...

- Almost every single act in the industry, programs 'something' during live shows... It's a sign of the times and the technology world we are in. I was talking to a guy who does the sound for SouthSide Johnny as well as many other acts and he said that everyone does this... Everyone!!!

- I could almost guarantee that Jon is not Lip Syncing the entire show. I have the soundboards and it's obvious that he's not... Something prompted this... TBH, I haven't watched any of the YouTube vids from Philly because I didn't want them to ruin my experience but after hearing this with the alternate version, this is new...

- The band do not need any fillers and I almost find it impossible for them to play most songs exactly the way they are on the album especially considering that most songs aren't played like the album versions..

- In my opinion, Jon is only using this overdub for THINFS and most likely Knockout. I think it just packs a bigger punch and they are the only songs that actually sound like the album versions...

I really just think he's using the track to fill out the vocals and not to lip sync his vocals... He is definitely singing up there... Although it looks ugly, it's really not that big a deal...

This isn't a lipsyncing thing though. Having the studio version cued up, solo and all, but tuned down to the live version means it's something more than just lipsyncing. If it were only that we would have heard only Jons voice.

this thing is strange, I believe they didn't know about the track playing on the back, first because is the alternate version, second is that, if it was really a playback, why Jon don't go to the mic on the "I set each stone..."? he sings that on the studio and you can hear it on the video and the whole band went out of sync, you can see Tico trying to put the thing back together at some point. It doesnt make any sense

I'm listening to that bit of Roller over and over and I can't hear it the original being played

Honestly, I was so disgusted and dismayed, I kind of zoned out. I wasn't singing along. All I could tell was how awful Jon sounded on certain songs. It's My Life and Bad Medicine were all but unlistenable. God Bless This Mess, which I love, was weak and the crowd gave no reaction. Skipping over Devil or New Years was another kick in the gut. Then of course the puny encore. I left in the middle of Prayer.

What's with this original version of THINFS? Never heard it.

I don't think is fully out there, there's this snippet

It was distributed to the radio stations in Germany. At least all in my area had that alternate edit in their playlist. I have a full copy of it, but besides that there is no difference to the album version at all.

and its shorter, right? in the video we can see that everything went to hell because is shorter

What pisses me off are the 40-50 year old women completely satisfied with the show because Jon shook his ass a few times and smiled "right at them". So sick of that excusing a lackluster, short set, full of mistakes, and now, at the very least, a backing track. If I wanted Lady Gaga, I'd go see Lady Gaga.

But we're acting like the whole show is lipsynced. It's not. Clearly something went very wrong here but we can't be mad at the band for sounding robot perfecting and also for sounding terrible this tour.

she does not lip sync, change it to Britney Spears

someone in the back messed up, I can't say that he would never do playback live but I know he would make a shitty one

At work so don't have time to get into it now, but when I get home I"ll give a much more detailed review. Many things I noticed and was pissed about.

Maybe the recording was supposed to play in their IEM's (to play along with) and accidentally got played over the PA?


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Maybe it was an audible that got triggered by mistake?

Look, the solo was there intact. The solo. That is played live every other time. Maybe it's a guide track? This is slowly sliding off the rails and accusing them of being diva pop stars is a little much. I just can't imagine the band was to mime to the studio recording.

bands use these type of tracks often to beef up the sound live, especially on singles and such. But putting the volume louder than the band is a hell of a mistake to make, someone's gonna be out of a job really soon! What baffles me is why use the whole song and not set samples on certain parts? It's not like they're short staffed!

Been glancing at this thread throughout the day but wasn't able to stop and watch the videos until now.

Wow. That looks really bad. If it was an ill-thought April Fool's prank, it's one that someone has probably been fired for by now.

But I feel like if Jon had been lip syncing THINFS this whole time, or even before now, someone here would have noticed... right? Also, if he were lip syncing, you'd only need the vocal track, not a studio version on playback; it's not like the rest of the band can't play anymore.

I honestly don't know what to think, but the idea of Jon needing or wanting to lip sync this breaks my heart, more so than the thought of his previously good voice being gone forever.

I'm attaching the original setlist (I don't have the time to figure out how to capture a decent snapshot), crossed out songs were NYD and RYH


This is the source: https://youtu.be/uvXkwJ1B_s0?t=59

I want to agree with this, but let's think about Phil playing a solo live with the studio version in his ears...I'm no guitar player, but that would really throw me off.

I just rewatched my video from the Cleveland show, doesn't sound like the studio vocals are there. I can see how one might hear that, because I think Everette is covering that vocal.


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So now we know that the dots represent the song with backing tracks.

I think it's already been discussed here (or maybe somewhere else, can't remember) but I'm sure it's "common knowledge" that all the songs with dots have or have had in the past some backing tracks.

More tech stuff here around the 4:22 mark, I tried to capture a screenshot but it's too blurry: https://youtu.be/uvXkwJ1B_s0?t=263

I usually expect that those backing tracks are, well for backing vocals given how obvious they are. As for why KTF doesn't have a dot despite "Faith!" coming from one is a complete mystery.

As for the THINFS fracas, I'm considering two possibilities:

1. Someone mistakenly used the entire song instead of only the chorus harmonies as a backing track. The fact that said track made it to the bridge faster than Jon and the guys did (the track cut from just before "coming home" to the bridge) meant that there was confusion between what the sound engineer was hearing and what Jon, David, Tico, and Phil were hearing. Shanks and Tico were playing live while Jon, Phil, and David were struggling to keep up.

And Jon didn't even realize that the track skipped as he continued singing, so whatever the band was hearing on their IEMs was different from what was being aired over the sound system. Similar incident to what hAnd90 uploaded in his channel earlier (Runaway NJ 2010) where the band didn't realize that the PA system blew over, which implied that the IEM and PA feeds were different.


2. It's a litmus test if they can get away with pulling off a Milli Vanilli. Enough said.
Note: It's pretty easy to notice if the sound is coming from playback or whether it's live when it comes to audience recordings, especially when it comes to Jon's vocals. The entire band was playing beneath the track (can't say the same for Jon), as evidenced by the track skipping ahead to the bridge.

first i thought, jon realized the mistake and went to his mic but try to hum the song along as it should be ... they didn't even notice what was on the pa. they played the song correct. look how phil goes to the "this house was built on trust" bridge while you hear the part "no wrecking ball" or how the solo starts at at 3:50 while he's still doing chords. around 5:00 you can hear how the backing track stops and leaves us with the bands true sound.

the backing track went direct from the second chorus to the bridge without the "coming home" part. phil is more than able to play this solo live (and he does usually).

so, in defense of jon: i guess, he never planned to lip sync. they just played the wrong track since a backing track would never include phils solo.

The more I watch it, the more confused I am. It's just frankly bizarre. They have no idea it's happening, or at least Dave seems to at one point possibly, but it's hard to tell from far away.

I mean there are excuses as to why, it could be any number of things, such as for the lighting people or screens/curtains to be synced up. Maybe it is to boost the sound, but with that band you shouldn't need to with backing tracks. You have 2 great guitarists, a demon drummer and Dave with his perm. A vocal track to cover Jon is to be expected, but a fully downtuned full track with solo? Doesn't make sense to be deliberately playback, there's so much to lose.

Great research everyone with figuring out the dots... So on 5 songs just uses a filler to enhance the performance... it's common and not that big a deal... I feel better

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Please... Lady Gaga sings live and sounds great. It's a huge insult to compare her (or any other great singer) to today's Jon.

That was my gut feeling as well. It would have to be a member of the band that benefits from hearing all the studio layers of sound - so perhaps it came of David's IEM?

Again, if this was to mask Jon, it would be a) a live recording of a past; b) a vocal-track only to make it less obvious.

Reminds me of the incident where the Borat national anthem was mistakenly played instead of the actual Kazakh one.

Jon should make a statement about it...

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1st April 2017 - Mohegan Sun Arena, Uncasville Thread
 

Happened once in 95 Wembley stadium. When support band Crown of thorns were playing all of a sudden living on a prayer came blasting through the pa!

Someone's obviously pushed a button they shouldn't have.

Thing is if you were to lip sync you'd do it to a live version and not the album version as it would sound way too perfect

I don't think I would have too much of a problem with this if Jon hadn't bragged about how he is 100% live.

Bands like the foo fighters and switchfoot or even Ed Sheeran brag about how everything you hear is 100% live. I used to think that was a ridiculous thing to brag about.

Oh please. You think she's 100% live with all that flipping around and crap she does? And you think her band is live?

I have no time to read all the comments, so maybe someone already have said what i'm about to say, but I think this has nothing to do with lip-sync or anything like that.

The studio version is being played out loud, and that is the **** up. I don't know why, but that shouldn't being played. Maybe it's used like some kind of guide, I don't know, but the point is that the band didn't know it's being played out loud or even hearing this track, they are playing the song live as usual.

The sencond problem is that, after the second chorus, this studio track doesn't include the "coming hoooome" part, so there is where the track begins to go out of sync with the band and things start to seem weird.

But I repeat, the band didn't know the song was being played and they didn't hear it, or they would have done something to fix the mistake, but they keep playing without knowing there's a studio version playing out o sync on top of them. If you replace the audio from any other performance of THINFS from this tour, you can see all the band is playing the song perfectly.

I had been thinking about that Milli Vanilli analogy earlier as well, especially since Jon made some remarks about them at the time (can even be seen on the AAA video).

It's not a backing track either since no band actually uses a full studio version unless they really want to do just playback. And about them accidently mixing up the PA feed with the ones on the IEMs - that can't be the case either. I've talked to the members of Bounce about the way their monitors are set up and they've told me that usually every musician has his own feed mixed specifically for the specific needs. They use backing tracks in some songs as well (like Unbreakable) but they're not on their feed since it would be too hard to distingiush it from what the other band members are playing. And Jon usually only has bass/keyboards and his own guitar prominent on his monitors with the drums (you hear them on the stage anyway) and the lead guitar being pretty low in his mix.

It probably really was just the case of some of the sound engineers really screwing up the tracks.

But the "Bad Medicine" from Philly was live right?.. Im pinning all my "there's still hope" on that performance haha

Jon sings Bad Medicine way too differently from the original for lip-syncing to be of any use.

Well... I'd like to agree, but the problem is that they don't play out of sync to the track until after the second chorus. I know they use click tracks, so maybe the click track is in the original tempo of the song, because otherwise they would *have* to know that the studio version is playing and play along to that. So the IEM theory is more likely, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, because, like someone said, that would mess up your playing (different than playing with too much latency, but it would still be confusing).

It can't be a total accident, since they have down tuned the studio version, and unless they have some processing going on that does that on-the-fly (which is not very likely), someone would've had to prepare that track beforehand. But why cut the "Coming homes" out of it and using the alternate version? (BTW, since that's a radio edit, I'd have to go back and listen to it to see if that's been shortened in the first place).

So yeah, maybe (and most probably) someone confused that track with the backing track they normally use, but why have that studio track around at all? It doesn't make any sense, unless for a TV performance, where you wouldn't have that equipment and the tracks there. It was April 1st, after all, so the most likely theory would be a prank, but I wouldn't want to be in that person's shoes TBH...

I cannot and refuse to believe that they did this on purpose to see if they could get away with it. Not on that song and not near the end of the tour. No way...