Definitely some sort of pre recorded audio sample like they have for the high bit in Prayer


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I don't think so. Why would he use vocal tracks in which he sounds bad ??

Only the bits where he hits the highs to make it sound more authentic. He's been doing it for a few years


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And still he opens the show asking the audience if they were there the night before.

He has been using this for Always ? What's your source ?

Like he has done every time they have played back to back in the same city. Probably to gauge whether to change the set around much.


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Have you listened to the LA forum performance of Always? That pretty much squashes your theory as we had 3 Always performances this tour so far and they all had very different levels of Jon's vocals - Pretty good-terrible-OK, in that order.

For me this is far best version of Always from this tour :cool:
Phil should do this ( second verse wanted) more often....he sound f.. awesome

Ridiculous setlist. Mind boggling how all they changed was Raise Your Hands out, Always & Crash in.

They know that fans do multiple shows, especially at the same venue. I know the North American legs are generally static, but this one really takes the cake. I mean, why not rotate the THINFS shows ffs. Even just Devils for NYD. Even better slip Born Again Tomorrow & Labor Of Love in. Anyhing, even if all the other songs were the same, at least then if you did both shows you heard more of the new album.

I know Europe has been different historically, but this sort of bullshit has completely put me off doing multiple shows this tour.

Definitely???

Right. Though it's to be expected that 90% of the set list is identical, in order not to be unfair to people who are *not* going to both nights, but only on night 2 for example, at least rotate the *new* songs, let the hits and the rest as it is, and *then* throw in another bone in the encore. That's all you gotta do really...

Agreed. Shouting or not, his tone was good, the notes were mostly right, and it had feel and some edge to it.

I just don't understand why he can sound so good/strong on songs like this, and generally so weak on most of the rest. Sure, it's about straining your voice not too much, but still, other than on a few notes, he doesn't sound too strained here, and also not like he's really shouting. It's just a different technique, and probably one he couldn't sustain the whole evening and tour, but would be great if he could...

It's because he has two ways of singing. He has his new way, which his worked on, which is a soft way of pronouncing and singing putting less strain on his voice, but not a great deal of power. Then he has an older way of singing, where basically he is just forcing the notes through his throat / neck to hit the notes.

When he got a return to good voice in 2008, he was signing naturally and correctly. As he started loosing his range later on, he started forcing the notes singing from the neck, going very red in the process in 2013's. This was the decline of his voice for me. This forcing of the notes has caused him the detoriation that we see today. If he had 20 shows to go in 2013, rather than drop the songs, or not attempt the notes, he forced them.

For this new tour, for most of the show, you get the new softer tone without the power. To sing a song like always, his mixing it with the softer tone, then using the old bad method to hit the other notes. This is why sometimes after over using this, you find his shot for songs that follow it. His stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea. I've seen two of my singing friends burn there voices out doing this bad method of singing, both ended up with nodules and had operations, both now sing in a more gentle tone.

Mabs

This sounds logical, but one thing I keep wondering: He's obviously (and reportedly) been working with a vocal coach to maintain what's left of his voice and to discover that new softer way (almost whispering at some parts) which you described earlier.
But why can't they work out a proper technique for him to sing a song like Always? This performance shows that he at least still has the ability and a bit of range to hit these notes. But if the range is there, there's gotta be a way to hit these notes without forcing them and straining his chords that much?

This reminds me of the two Tokyo shows in 2010. Those were the only Asian dates of the tour so the expectations were pretty big but the set lists were identical except for Raise Your Hands replacing Have a Nice Day on the second night. Of course the performance were miles better back then but anyway, I remember the reactions being quite harsh.

Anyway, this is pathetic. They could have mixed up the set list with at least 7 songs without having to rehearse anything. Throw in Runaway, Working Man, Because We Can, Blood on Blood, Saturday Night, Devils, Living With the Ghost and you have a different show.
But no... Why go the extra mile? The band has only done it for their entire career so this seems like a good tour to change that.

11th April 2017 - Air Canada Centre, Toronto Night 2 Thread
 

I thought that was a decent outro by Jon on Always. He didn't try to force a really high note on the last "rhyme", and it sounds totally fine that way. I recall a couple performances from years ago where he did the "shine" and "rhyme" more understated, and it was fine.

I love Phil's outro solo on this!


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That's what I'm wondering, too. I sing quite a bit myself, and since I hadn't had vocal lessons, I too "force" the notes sometimes, which leads to fatigue on the muscles/vocal chors/whatever after some time, and needs some time to relax, before I can hit high notes again. But there's notes in BJ songs that I cannot hit at all, so if he still *can* hit those notes, there must/should be a proper technique to do so, since his *range* is obviously not shot/lost for good...

Jon's desperation to prove he can still sing Always is actually sad. As if that one song (even sung well) would smooth over the deterioration in the rest of the set vocals. I don't even think he's trying to appease the fans or critics of his voice, I think he's trying to convince himself he still has something to hold on to. That's pretty sad.

I truly do get the attitude of "it's better in person" and I'm glad people mostly seem to be enjoying the shows. I hope that continues.

But, seeing and hearing them (Jon) now, is more often than not just embarrassing to me.

I say that as I fan and someone who has been fortunate enough to see them at their untouchable best.

I used to take great pride in showing the naysayers just how amazing a live band they were. These days (no pun) I literally cringe at the thought of those types of people hearing Jon. I don't want him to be judged like that - I know who the real JBJ is/was. I've seen it live. There's tons of YouTube footage that backs it up. He was immense. No other word.

He's so far removed from that guy that it's almost like two different people. And I get why. There's lots of factors at play. I'm not oblivious. This is just how I feel.

So while I still think THINFS is great and want them to continue making albums, I think my live affinity with them is sadly over.

I'd LOVE to be proved wrong, and sincerely hope Jon can somehow get back to a decent level.

And if people are still enjoying the live shows, that's great. Bon Jovi gigs hold some of my best memories. Biased or not, when that band click there's something magical. That's their legacy to me.




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Always sounded somewhat decent . And Phil is becoming more and more impressive as well...

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See? I hate being right all the time. No tour premieres or epic set lists anymore, Toronto would have been the place to get them this tour. It's a different band now. Don't expect anything new/special for both MSG nights.

Because basically, he hasn't looked after his voice. As we get older, our vocal chords thicken naturally anyway. Back in 2008 his voice recovered and once again, to the fans delight, he was singing the hits from the older albums, and these songs are not easy to sing. By around 2011 / 2013, he should have been retiring these songs and bringing them out as specials, but he kept pushing, putting together 3 hour shows with very challenging songs chucked in. Rather than change the setlist to give his voice a rest, he soldiered on, and as his vocal chords started to decline, he struggled to hit the high notes naturally, but he found a new technic and started singing from the neck / throat on more and more songs. You can watch shows from 2011 to 2013 where after he hits a high note, he then turns around coughing / choking up, because his taken his voice somewhere it shouldn't have gone.

Unfortunately he can't sing the high notes in Always in that old Natural voice or soft voice, because I suspect his chords have been thickened and he simply can't do it in a natural voice. The only way he is hitting them now, is via bad technic once again and then paying for it, because Captain Crash immediately afterwards sounds more like Captain Car Wreck. Fan's are demanding the songs sung, Jon will give it his all to sing them, but with every bad technic, it just brings Jon closer to retirement because its not substanable to keep taking your voice to somewhere it simply shouldn't be going. The damage was done a long time ago, and the Jon from 2008 isn't coming back, so I'm just going to continue enjoying what he can do, rather than worrying about what he can't.

Since your explanations are pretty concise and seem to make a whole lot of sense: do you have any singing background or where did you get the knowledge of what you're talking about? And why do only start talking about it now, where it's been debated to death on here and it says you joined way back in 2003? Just curious ;-)

Phil's guitar sounded like pure shit on Always, holy christ

as much that I hate myself for saying this, because I hate him right now, I miss Sambora very very very much in some songs like Always, some others songs I don't even remember you but Always, his feeling was incredible, the final solo he always made his guitar weep.... tough

Which part do you mean? The standard solo? That's now being played as on the studio track again (or for the first time, Richie used to play it with a clean tone/without chorus/flanger in the last couple of years at least). Phil's tone in the final solo and the rest of the song is just fine IMO...

Yeah - I'm not expecting much. I was at both nights of Giants (MetLife) in 2013 and the setlists were identical except for 1 song. Dry County swapped out for These Days.

I talked my husband into going to both nights of MSG but if this happens again (and I assume it will now) this will be the last of my multiple shows.

Couldn't have said it better. I so agree with everything you said. I don't want to be negative but I wish JBJ could have gone out on top. I wonder what the young JBJ would think of his current vocals.

I'm sure Jon loves performing even though he says it's third on his list after writing and recording, so he really must like it to still be singing with these vocal issues.

Jon is in incredible physical shape for 55 or even younger. Maybe when that goes (but I know he won't let that happen) he would give up performing?

yes, it sounded very off to me, not even close to the tone on the studio, I hated

he should do Always early on the set, not opening the encore after 20 songs, is just crazy

Hmm, for me it sounded like that stupid sound they used in the studio on it, which I never understood. I was actually glad Richie used a more "normal" tone on it (and I believe Phil at first, too), but now they went back to that other tone :confused:

Lol what? I Play guitar and that solo was out of this world amazing. His tone was also A+++

You need your ears checked bro, that was perfect!!!

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Others have said completely the opposite: that he should play it last because it's so taxing on him.


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the last solo is good, lacks feeling or don't lack anything and I'm with Sambora's version on my head but the main solo, don't know, just sounds off to me, not the same

Any idea what the audibles were for this show?

Well, I'm listening to last night's Always and seriously, the guy is the worst shit on the planet right now. He's clearly sick, I mean, Jon became a very bad karaoke singer but the way he was singing this song last night is just unacceptable.

He's destroying his image. Most people don't pay attention to this but the media​ started talking, something that never happened before.

Just hope this idiot take care of his health and take time to properly heal.

That's a little extreme... The song is clearly out of his range but he's giving the fans one of his biggest hits...

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I really enjoyed that Always performance. No going through the motions there, there's always gonna be unsatisfied people who either expected or demanded more, but that's life. Love Phil's solos, especially his recovery during the outro solo. It was like he didn't know where to go for a second there and then just said "**** it" and just let loose a bit. I love these moments, and think they are what make seeing a band perform live worth it.....

http://i.imgur.com/4QZanlx.png

While there are people like this​, it'll never happen.