Originally Posted by jazzsta (Post 1225763)

why aren't you dead has a lot of similarities with I'll sleep when I'm dead. The choruses are almost same, no? BJ have had the tendency to write similar songs during a period, evolve them in parallel and finally chose one to be at the album. So to me it doesn't make much sense to be from 1994.

Originally Posted by rokuli (Post 1225765)

GREAT TOPIC!

BTW: We NEED more 7800 demos/outtakes/whatever....!

Originally Posted by jazzsta (Post 1225763)

why aren't you dead has a lot of similarities with I'll sleep when I'm dead. The choruses are almost same, no? BJ have had the tendency to write similar songs during a period, evolve them in parallel and finally chose one to be at the album. So to me it doesn't make much sense to be from 1994.

Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1225761)

Here is my theory on the 1994 songs....

After / while Jon was writing for a few Movies, he starting writing for what he though was going to be the next album Open All Night... The Record Company wanted a greatest hits so they released Crossroads instead of the new album...

Crossroads was huge because of Always which probably exceeded everyone's expectations... Because of the success of Always and the time in between, they decided to change direction and write These Days.... So all the below songs were never really intended for These Days (except for Lonely At The Top) and that's why they all sound so different...

Movies:
Gotta Have a Reason 1993 - Movie The Three Musketeers
Good Guys Don't Always Wear White 1994 - Movie The Cowboy Way

1. Open All Night 1994 - Working Title before These Days
2. Letter to a Friend 1994 - Jon mentioned in an interview with Kerrang in 1994 on the set of the Good Guys video shoot.
3. Nobody's Hero 1994 - Jon mentioned in an interview with Kerrang in 1994 on the set of the Good Guys video shoot.
4. Flesh and Bone 1994
5. I Just Want To Be Your Man 1994

Are The Fire Inside and Why Aren't You Dead part of this?

Originally Posted by Nige (Post 1225766)

Apparently there aren't any more due to the quick turnaround of the album. I'd assume there are demo and/or pre-production versions of the released tracks but nothing else.

Originally Posted by jovifan93 (Post 1225752)

Ok, found the thread containing the images:

https://drycounty.com/jovitalk/bon-j...849/page3.html

That confirms Sympathy, Radio Saved My Life Tonight, Billie, Drive, Miss 4th of July, Love Is Just Another 4 Letter Word, and Every Beat Of My Heart for KTF (at least being demoed during the KTF sessions).

But what are All Wound Up and Skin Deep? Never heard of them...

Originally Posted by Nige (Post 1225766)

Apparently there aren't any more due to the quick turnaround of the album. I'd assume there are demo and/or pre-production versions of the released tracks but nothing else.

Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1225771)

Not a bad theory, but it probably was a little different. In the book "Bon Jovi - In Their Own Words" there's an interview where Jon or Richie told that Crossroad was only released because they took so long to get These Days done. The band wasn't too pleased with the decision at first, but the company executives didn't want to take the risk of an expanded time span like they had between New Jersey and Keep The Faith, so the finally agreed to the idea.
In a different interview Jon stated they had trashed all the first recordings, not because the songs weren't there, but due to him not liking the sound of the instruments. This was what ultimately lead to the huge delay which led to Crossroad.
Where you probably have a point is when it comes to the song choice for the album. I think they really pushed for more ballads being on there after Always had become such a success.

Originally Posted by Xavi (Post 1225773)

I guess "Water into wine" is the electric version of Bitter Wine...

Originally Posted by jazzsta (Post 1225763)

why aren't you dead has a lot of similarities with I'll sleep when I'm dead. The choruses are almost same, no? BJ have had the tendency to write similar songs during a period, evolve them in parallel and finally chose one to be at the album. So to me it doesn't make much sense to be from 1994.

Originally Posted by Xavi (Post 1225773)

I guess "Water into wine" is the electric version of Bitter Wine
I didnt know it,I always thought BW was from TDays era,not from KTF's one.
It has sense cause the equality to Little Help From My Friends that was usually played those years.

Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1225782)

No, the verses of "Water Into Wine" are essentially what we have in In These Arms nowadays. Jon and David had been working on that song and I remember Jon saying that the verses were great, but they never got the chorus working. And then Richie came over with a solo title he had in his mind, called "If You Were In These Arms Tonight" and they basically fixed the chorus.
In an interview for the 2010 Greatest Hits album they told the story again.
From 5:14 onwards:

Bon Jovi - GH track by track interview - YouTube

Originally Posted by jovifan93 (Post 1225781)

Sorry, but I don't see the similarity between these two. Also, the sound of the band is totally different, which is why I would go with RDs 1994 theory for the time being...

Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1225788)

I do have one reservation and this might have been discussed in other topics but I think that most, if not all of the vocals for Miss 4th Of July were rerecorded... They don't match a 1992 JBJ at all...

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Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1225791)

2. During the time of endless demos for Crush they might've considered using that tune since they weren't certain of the direction they wanted to head into. They definitely had a look into their vaults back then since another KTF outtake, Starting All Over Again, got re-recorded in 2000 as well.

Originally Posted by Nige (Post 1225794)

Starting All Over Again is just a different vocal take isn't it? The guide vocals I seem to recall - Obie thought they were better than the final demo ones. Wrongly IMO.

Originally Posted by Nige (Post 1225794)

Starting All Over Again is just a different vocal take isn't it? The guide vocals I seem to recall - Obie thought they were better than the final demo ones. Wrongly IMO.

Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1225772)

Agreed. There was a song called Danger Zone which made have been left off (since I can't conclude from the title along what it could've morphed into) and another one called Afraid of the Night. Jon had mentioned both in a TV interview when they just had started with the writing for the album. The latter most likely turned into The Hardest Part Is The Night.

From 6:19 onwards:
Jon Bon Jovi | TV Interviews 1985 - YouTube

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1225795)

Yep.

Also we can't use quality of vocal tracks to differentiate years. Some of these demos are guide tracks and some sound much more polished.

Originally Posted by Bounce7800 (Post 1225796)

You mean you don't prefer Arting all over again? :p

Originally Posted by Nige (Post 1225794)

Starting All Over Again is just a different vocal take isn't it? The guide vocals I seem to recall - Obie thought they were better than the final demo ones. Wrongly IMO.

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1225797)

Afraid of the Night could have also become We Rule The Night. The box set version sounds like a really really early version (drum machine is a dead giveaway). If Jon didn't play bass on that I'd be shocked.

Originally Posted by Nige (Post 1225794)

Starting All Over Again is just a different vocal take isn't it? The guide vocals I seem to recall - Obie thought they were better than the final demo ones. Wrongly IMO.

Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1225777)

Great info... but it's nice to know that we have a little Sex Sells thing going on here... 'Open All Night' The album before the album!!!

Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1225791)

There surely were some late overdubs done to some of the Box Set tracks

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1225805)

I know I've said all this before but it fits the thread.

Based on the video footage and their hair length the electric version of Bitter Wine and Prostitute were early early on in the process. It looks like early 94 to me. I really believe that batch of songs were the ones Jon talked about discarded and personal preference thinks the TD b-sides belong in that camp.

Originally Posted by bonjovi90 (Post 1225806)

I think you're right about this. Bitter Wine was also changed to the acoustic version for the album in the very last minute. Probably because the sound of the electric version didn't fit the album album's sound/mood anymore. In the German booklet the lyrics of the electric version got printed and I had been wondering why they weren't correct for years - until I found the leak of the electric demo. So they must've decided to rearrange the song so late that even the artwork had been finished by then.

Originally Posted by Faceman (Post 1225803)

I like that idea.
During all those years I always found it hard to believe, that songs like The End, When She Comes, Prostitute, even Lonely At The Top and also the Box Set songs like Open All Night, Flesh and Bone or I Just Wanna Be Your Man were written for These Days. They all sound waaaaay to different than the songs that made the album.
So I really think it might be true that there was the idea for "Open All Night" but that it's been completely rejected.

Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1225808)

Also... we're the Bsides like Wedding Day etc all recorded in a day... Jon went into a studio, threw down the vocals, and called it a day... They were specially recorded for bsides... or something to that nature

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Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1225810)

That's a tough one to figure out. Either all of the b-sides were contenders at some point for the album or they were recorded after the album was done to pad it with bonus tracks. I'd like to believe it's the first one but there isn't really a way to find out, minus the dates on the master tapes.

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1225805)

Based on the video footage of the making of the box set we know the acoustic guitars for I Get A Rush were added later by Jon and Bobby and the steel pedal strings for River Runs Dry. There's footage of Jon at a microphone about to record but since they were working on HAND at the same time there's no guarantee what he was singing. There are some rhythm guitar tracks on the box set songs that are questionable and I feel like were added later. I was listening to Taking it Back at the gym today and the guitar on the right side just didn't feel like Richie's style of palm muting and almost sounded like Bobby.

Originally Posted by Rdkopper (Post 1225811)

There is a way to find out because there is an article about it... it might be Kerang

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