While searching for some more information, I came across this site that has all the text from the box set booklet. If anyone's interested. At first, I thought it was something new, but it seems it isn't...

http://bonjovi2005.free.fr/comm_box.php

Though it for example explicitly states that Why Aren't You Dead has been demoed for KTF (and states the reason why it's not been included), as well as that Miss 4th Of July is from the Grey Summer period (he even mentions it by name, does it stem from that?) Sorry if it's been posted/confirmed for those songs by now, I'm too lazy to read all the pages again right now ;-)

Another interesting site. Doesn't add anything/much new, but interesting supposed track list for the original New Jersey/Sons Of Beaches (OT, I know, and probably fake).

https://destroyerofharmony.com/2014/...-songs-part-2/

It also says that Wedding Day was written for TD, but then we already knew that...

Thanks for posting... these are pretty much Jons quotes from the DVD...

Outlaws and Why Aren't You Dead are the two biggest mysteries

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Maybe I'm thinking of the Always and Saturday Night recordings... I think I mixed this up once before too

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I remember that reason for Why Aren't You Dead and I assume it might be from the KTF sessions. Maybe Jon wasn't fit enough when they recorded it and hence he screamed more on some parts. The Radio Saved My Life Tonight was obviously recorded when he had a pretty bad cold and it didn't stop him. So some vocal fluctuations need to be considered.
The only other explanation I'd have is that they revisited the song for a possible inclusion on Crossroad (since it reflected in some way Bad Name/Bad Medicine with its "tongue-in-cheek" lyrics), but decided against it in the end since they weren't heading in that direction anymore.

Miss 4th of July is THE grey summer song for me, so it definitely was written in 1991. I'm just questioning whether only the vocals were re-recorded later or whether the entire band reworked the song at some point. That again leads me to the question how the song may have originally sounded in 1992.

I love outlaws of love. Reckon it's a KTF era demo. If true how did that not get on??? Top track

Just gave Why Aren't You Dead another listen. At first, I thought that the vocals may also have been re-recorded, but there are parts where it definitely sounds like the Jon from 92-96 singing, more like 94/95, but that's hard to tell. So it's either the KTF demo (with probably some instrument tracks added/polished) or they indeed re-visited the song for Crossroad/Open All Night and it's a recording from that time frame.

Miss 4th Of July sounds way too polished for me, so I guess that's been re-recorded (at least for the most part). And the vocals sound like early 2000, though that could be misleading, since some parts also would've sounded the same in the late 80s, some in the 90s, but there are some parts that to me suggest 2001-2003. Guess we'll never know ;-)

I changed the title so it will be easier to search for in the future....

If Miss 4th of July was revisited it probably was revisited in the era of the Box Set as it was a very last minute addition. If I recall Obie asked Donna, does she still kick around these parts?, to ask us if it's a song we'd heard of. Had the vocals been messed with around Crush times, I just don't see it being as much as a last minute find. That and with how many songs they brought to the table in 1998/1999, bringing back a song from that era doesn't seem as likely. Though they might have done that exact thing with Ordinary People so I don't know.

I get back to this thread because there's something I was thinking about the last couple of days concerning You Can Sleep While I Dream.

Obie's box set tracklist lists it as a Crush demo and we do as well.
But to me it never suited that era. The sound of the song is just too different.
I'd rather put it somewhere between 1993 - 1995 and after strumming around a bit on my acoustic guitar I finally got some indication for my theory.

When writing for the albums Jon (and Richie) always had the habit to use either the exact same or slightly changed chord progressions more than once.
Examples (off the top of my head, there's probably way more):

In these Arms chorus - E B C#m A
The Radio Saved My Life Tonight verse - E B C#m A

Just Older (almost the whole song)- G Bm A
Hush (bridge) - Bm A G

Have A Nice Day chorus - Bm G D A
Bells Of Freedom verse - Bm G D A

Here's my point:
You Can Sleep While I Dream - bridge C#m A E G#m A F#m B / chorus E A F#m A E
Someday I'll Be Saturday Night - bridge C#m A E G#m A F#m / chorus E A E B A B E C#m B A E A
The Fire Inside - verse E5 A5 and B5 A5 at the end / chorus E A C#m A E B
For non-musicians this might look wild but what I'm saying is that you can actually play all three songs with the same chords.
So I think they were written all at the same period of time. With Saturday Night and Fire Inside we know for sure and I think You Can Sleep While I Dream is another one of that batch.

Another indication: the band also used to use the same kind of vocal fillers:
New Jersey - nananana --> Born To Be My Baby, Judgement Day, Growing Up The Hard Way, Love Hurts

Crossroad/These Days - heyhey --> Someday I'll Be Saturday Night, Prostitute, Something To Believe In

Destination Anywhere - shalala --> Queen Of New Orleans, Midnight In Chelsea, Little City

Lost Highway - again heyhey --> Lost Highway, We Got It Going On, I Love This Town

So the heyheys in You Can Sleep While I Dream match the ones of the These Days era much better.

And my final point why I right from the beginning put that song rather into the 93-95 era than 1999: Musically it fits songs like The End, When She Comes or Open All Night much better than the Crush or Sex Sells songs.
The These Days/Open All Night outtakes all got a specific sound that never appeared in Bon Jovi land before or after. The End or When She Comes or even Open All Night a such weird Bon Jovi songs soundwise - and so is You Can Sleep While I Dream.

What are your thoughts on that one?

I'm with you on that one. Not only is your theory here very profound, but I personally had never checked to see how it was officially listed and always associated it with the 1994 era in my mind. The whole structure, the way the lyrics were written and the overall feel just screams Crossroad/These Days sessions to me.

I'm so glad you brought this up. There are always those few songs you question from the Box, even though these lists point you in a different direction... And this is the one that was been irking me since inception.

In my collection, I've actually even had this one listed under "Open All Night"... (After KTF Jon wrote some songs and even confirmed this title before it was all squashed for Crossroads)... I think this song was debated under a different thread and CaptainJovi was very convincing that it was 1999.

Although I'm not a musician, you explained it perfectly and I totally get and definitely agree with what you are saying....

Here is what I'm providing:

1. I actually like the song too much for it be a later 90's song. And I'm actually serious when I say that. Jon's style had changed so much from the early to late 90's. I'm a sucker for uptempo songs with catchy hooks and this just fits that mold perfectly.

2. Jon's voice screams young and early 90's... Listen to the Fire Inside. It's identical to all the above - The Voice, The Style. When Jon screams "The Fire Inside" it's the same scream at the end of You Can Sleep...

3. It just doesn't fit anywhere between 1998 / 1999. Kinda going back to your post. Jon writes albums, not just random individual songs so usually there is some common connection with the others. I feel there is more of a connection with the handful of songs that came from Open All Night

We should definitely get some more buy ins before I change it on the main page but I'm in total agreement that it's early 90's.

This!!! Couldn't agree more!!!

Including the accordion? That arrangement sounds like something from Destination Anywhere or These Days.

Also: That intro actually sounds like the "You and me, we're invincible"-vocal part of Captain Crash. Same chords?

The recording of it on the Box Set was definitely done at a later point.
But the song was written during the great summer period. Jon even mentioned that explicitly at the Borgata show.
And wasn't there that song working sheet from the KTF album where the title was on as well?

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Indeed, Miss 4th is C CAdd9 C F G, that "you and me" part from the Captain has C F G.

Yes!
https://imgur.com/a/r9b2okk

Will have to go back and see why I thought this. I will die on my sword that the version of Ordinary People we have is from 99 and not These Days, not sure about You can sleep while I dream.

Miss 4th of July to me sounds like that era even with the accordion. Given that it was on Something for the pain and the accordion/mandolin combo sounds very similar to the sound they got on Little Steven's Time of your life.

It was on the KTF double album sheet... Some songs were reworked, resang, and essentially completed... There is footage on YouTube (of Kurt Johnson adding pedal steel to one of the songs - too lazy to go look it up)...

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River Runs Dry. I would assume he also added it to These Arms Are Open All Night but no way of knowing. Other additions were the Acoustic Guitars on I Get A Rush.

I don't know guys, to me JBJ's voice in You Can Sleep While I Dream doesn't sound 1994, it's sounds more kinda like Two Story Town Webcast 2000 lol (btw same co-writers plus Richie)

no doubt this song is very pretty -_- and similar to Saturday Night (Hey’s, chord, etc.), maybe it was the Saturday Night "in the moment" (of course not too awesome like Saturday Night!!!!)

Good point though, considering the co-songwriters and the fact that it's the exact same grouping as Two Story Town that puts it into that era for me.

The box set was the first BJ release I got straight to myself (and no longer had to "borrow" my dad's records). :D Radio, I Get A Rush and the Always demo have always been my favorites off it. Goddammit, Jon's vocals used to be amazing...

https://youtu.be/RRD3xidAhM4

Just listen to that key change - if you don't get chills, I'll buy you a beer.

Great Research!!!! I knew you had a purpose ;)
However, checking the songwriters is usually the first rule of thumb. I'm getting lazy in my old age (that's twice now)...

But yes, I googled Dean Grakal and his time with Bon Jovi was during that 1999 Crush time frame... Along with Mark Hudson who is also attached with Jon during the late 90's...

Mark is also a producer and anything with his name attached usually comes with a higher vocal. Last Chance Train for example almost sound unnatural however it's one of my favorite songs off the Box so go figure. It would be interesting to see what he could do with Jon's voice now... He could probably take off 15 years like they do with the Actors using CGI...

All 4 songs below are credited with Mark. They all have a very similar feel...

You Can Sleep While I Dream
Last Chance Train
Crazy Love
Someday Just Might Be Tonight

Bottom line, we'll keep it at 1999 and I'll update the main page with that information... Great Research Yovana!!!

Those Box Set songs are tough ones most of the time due to the Diamond-Ring-theory.

Jon has said on numerous occasions that there have always been songs they went back to because they weren't deemed "ready" yet at one point or didn't fit the album's theme in the end (I remember at one point Jon saying that the KTF album essentially had been written around the track Diamond Ring, yet it didn't make the cut).

Miss Fourth of July was written in 1991, yet the recording we know sounds like it had been recorded later than that. Drive was written in 1991, but released in 1997 and maybe even reworked there. I'm still convinced that they did reconsider Starting All Over Again at some point because the Box Set version sounds like he has to strain his vocals considerably and is much more out of his comfort zone.

I think they revisited some of their song ideas while preparing for Crush, simply because they had no idea where in which direction they should go and the lack of coherence on the record shows that.

And (I may be the only one here) to me some of the material from the post-DA/pre-Crush vacuum sounds somewhat similar to some of the Crossroad/Open All Night songs.

All points provided for You Can Sleep While I Dream are definintely valid, so I have two theories about that one:
1. The original song sketch really is from around 1993/94 since the whole song structure and melody fit too well. However, Jon may have decided that it needed different lyrics and that songwriter team worked out new ones for that after having finished copying One of Us from Joan Osbourne. :p
In the end, the song wasn't the direction the band wanted to take and it went back into the vault and then onto the Box Set.

2. Jon trying to emulate Saturday Night. Last year, he said in a Q&A that his regret about These Days was that he didn't put Saturday Night on there and made it the first single. So he's always had a soft spot for that song and may have wanted to do a similar one for Crush, hence the chord progressions being so close.

Now we should blame Obie for not labeling anything properly and leaving us with so much stuff to figure out about it.

All great points and let's just add that's probably the reason why Obie said they didn't know the dates... because it's so scattered, how do you credit a specific time???

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I agreee with you on that one. If they had worked on it in 1999 again, that's probably why it was labeled that way.

Yet I feel that even Obie doesn't analyze the material as much as we do and hence he didn't think that would cause so many discussions.
For the BWJBJ fans, these information were probably more than enough :mrgreen:

I'd think Obie is the only person in the organization that cares about the songs as much as we do. Love his work or hate him I gotta defend the guy knowing how much of a project this was and how he made sure it was filled with stuff we didn't have.

Also I don't buy the Hey Hey's put it closer to mid 90's. Too many Hey Hey Heys throughout the entire discography (Something to Believe In, Lost Highway, Prostitute, Alive, What's Left of Me, etc...)

This wasn't meant as an attack towards Obie. But you gotta admit that the way we're taking all that stuff apart (in terms of analyzing every detail) is probably far above what they thought about it when putting the release information together.

It's not about the hey hey's, but the whole chord structure, melody, feel is why I put it there, at least originally.
Though we'll probably never know for sure.

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How elusive is Obie? Could somebody arrange for an interview with him? Obviously not about spilling any internal details, just about some of the track's origins.

That'd actually be quite a cool idea. Is he on Twitter or something?

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I didn't take yours as an insult, more so he's an easy dog to kick around here. I think he'd have done a bang up job producing a full album. I could make a living...is perfectly produced and I think he's got the fan's best interest at heart as far as what's out there.

I would LOVE an indepth interview with Obie about some of these songs.

Wasn’t diamond ring intended for the New Jersey double album then dropped when it was reduced to a single album?..

It was written in 1988, but in my memory Jon said that he wasn't completely satisfied with how the song had turned out (both for NJ and KTF) and it wasn't until they went back to a pretty basic, laid-back arrangement on TD that he liked it enough to let it go.

Perfect example... Diamond Ring is categorized under 1995 in my collection but it could also go under 1988... So I guess it all depends on what someone uses to categorize something... The year it was written? The year Jon sang it?

I met Obie in Philly this past tour. Super nice guy. He's probably pushing at least 70. He jokingly (but seriously) said that he needs to train someone on the vault collection because he's not going to be around forever... He said they were transferring over everything now (I believe to digital)...

He's super into it. I told him we need Hammersmith '90 and a Crush/Sex Sells double album... he loved both ideas... his hands are tied. He's just the gate keeper but I'm sure could have an influence..

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Jbj had 3 attempts to re-write it and I still don’t like that song!

Well that's your problem then, I love both versions [emoji23]

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I'm feeling 60 since I was 8
>_< jajaja

Diamond Ring was out until JBJ thought it was “the perfect version of that song.”

Box Set Revisited
 

I listened to disc 3 & 4 yesterday for the first time in years . Even used my CD player and that’s probably the first time they’ve been played on that format since I got it in 04. (Check out my insta iam_emmo to see my vinyl stuff if you’re bored!)). Some songs sound really good on CD rather than the compressed mp3 format.
I probably just stuck these on iPod as soon as I got it and have watched the dvd once.

I used to work for Universal Music and when this box set came out I managed to get 3 of these sets for nothing and gave 2 of the 3 to my dad and sister for Xmas.

I agree that some of these songs could of been intended for an album that could’ve sat between Faith and These Days.
Some good stuff here, some stuff that just falls short of Bon Jovi quality back then and some experiments that you can see why they were never used.

I'm with you on this one... his voice in You Can Sleep While I Dream sounds like it's 2000. It sounds too mature for it to be 1994. Also, the high notes in the chorus sound just a bit too nasal for me to believe it was 1994...

Those high notes at the end of the Always demo are crazy... Its just incredible to me how he would go all out even in demos...