There used to be four (or five) people in the band. Now there are seven (sic!) and the band is falling apart anyway.

Following your train of thoughts, whether Rich stayed or left, it wouldn't change that much since he's "unstable and fuc*ed up" or maybe even benefited from his unexpected departure.

Jon is the glue that holds everything together. It's his band and when he's unable to deliver like he is now, the whole thing looks and feels like it's falling apart. The band sounds tight and powerful, if Jon ever regains some power and confidence back the whole thing will be instantly a few notches above expectations. Honestly, I don't see it happening, but Jon has proven me and many people wrong before.....

I agree that it's Jon's band and he's unable to deliver. But I could argue your point that he's the glue that holds everything together; because he's struggling to do that right now, and history says otherwise.

Tico said in an interview in 1987 that when he joined the band "It was a very young, immature band then, no one knew each other and Richie wasn’t in it yet. It came together when Richie came in, it started clicking."

There's no denying that the band has been in decline for a while now, even while Richie was there. It was even more apparent with the end of the BWC tour and then the Asian junket in 2015; but people weren't saying Jon couldn't deliver except in a few of the more demanding songs. Even with the THINFS promo shows, they did okay as long as they stuck to the new songs. It wasn't until they started this tour and tried to pull off some of their classics live, without Richie, that ppl really started saying the band needs to hang it up.

I'm probably going to make some people mad by saying this, but it looks to me like the only person who was there only from the time it "started clicking" up until the time everything "started falling apart" was Richie. That makes me think that Richie was the glue - or, at the very least, the "hook" side that Jon's velcro stuck to. JMO.

If you're going to use some random quote from Tico to make it out that Richie was the key to holding the band together, then you should also watch Access All Areas where he talks about Jon being the one who took care of things the the rest of them just don't and you didn't know whether he had an ulcer or not. I can't quote it exactly. It's been over 20 years since I watched AAA. If it had not been for Jon's business sense and ability to be both creative and a CEO, that band would have fallen apart in 1990.

The band did fall apart in 1990, expressly because of Jon's business sense and the fact that as leader of the band he called the shots that nearly drove them into the ground. His story, not mine.

And when he decided to put it back together, who was the first person he called? According to their story, it would be the other part of that Velcro combination.

You don't seem fully aware of history. Jon was listening to Doc McGhee in th 80's and early 90's and was the one who fired him on the night they got the Video Vanguard award and took over the reigns in full to save the band. The band never broke up in 1990, they went their separate ways to recover from the previous two tours. No one ended anything. Everyone in the band, when asked, denied a breakup and referred to it as a hiatus. Jon had enough sense to see what needed to change for them to continue and he fixed it.

I'm fully aware of the history but it seems that your version needs to be updated. It's true that that's what Jon said for years, up until at least the Alice Tully show in 2009, when he was still saying that if the "responsible" people had been more confident in the band's abilities, they would have told the band to enjoy it and go home and sleep for a year, but instead they were pushed to keep going.

But fast forward to 2017 and these last interviews, and Jon admitted that he had blamed the managers and the label for years, but in fact, he was the one who ran them into the ground because he was afraid that if they didn't keep going they'd lose it all; and people would think they were just a fluke. That confirmed Michael Francis' statement in "Star Man" when he said that Doc asked Jon numerous times if he wanted to take a break, but Jon said no, they had to keep going. Lonn Friend said something very similar about how they were supposed to stop after Moscow, but Jon saw the $ signs going up, up, up and wouldn't agree to stop.

Jon said, then, that he fired Doc because Doc had nearly killed them by pushing them too hard. Some fans say he fired Doc because of the drug issue. But, later, Jon told one of the biographers, Mick Wall, I think, that the reason he fired Doc was because he could do everything Doc was doing; so why should he give him the 20% when he could keep it for himself.

I may not have been following the band as long as you have but I've read just about everything I can get my hands on. I love Jon, but he lies like a rug. I don't buy anything he says, without checking it against what else he's said first, because he rewrites history to present the side of the story he wants to present, at that moment, with total disregard for anything he may have said prior to that. And sometimes you need a score card just to keep up. Like him saying, when The Circle came out, that it was the most Jon and Richie album since SWW, but now, because it suits his purposes better to downplay Richie's involvement, he's saying that Richie wasn't all that involved in the last 3 or 4 records prior to THINFS. Any way you slice it, that would include The Circle.

Sometimes it's because he realizes something different later on, like when he initially said that everything he wrote for Young Guns was script-based but he realized later that it was really about him.

Sometimes he's just protecting himself or the brand like when he said initially that Alec "just decided he didn't want to do this anymore and being in a rock band is not a life sentence". Then years later, when nobody cared any longer, he admitted that he had fired him because he wasn't doing his part on stage, or he couldn't play the bass parts, or because he talked out of school about band business, depending on which story you want to believe.

Jon had enough sense to change things to make them go the way he wanted them to go. Have they been successful? You betcha. Would they have been just as successful under a different management structure? Maybe not; but then again, they might have been even more successful and creative, and functioning better than they are now. We have know way of knowing.

So you rather believe the words of an ex roadie who was known to have used several aliases and an old record producer that has not been heard of in a long time than Jon himself? I think your just twisting things to suit you and your version of what happened, Jackie sometimes I just don't understand you, but if this is what you want to believe, then be my guest. If you don't want to believe Jon, be my guest, and if you want to continue this merry-go-round then be my guest, its almost becoming entertaining to read

Jackie what you fail to understand is the relationship between Jon and Richie...

First of all, Richie has multiple roles within the band... The three main ones are:

1. Writer
2. Musician / Backup Vocalist
3. Co Producer

Richie might have more involvement in certain roles than others... For example he might have had a bigger role during the writing stage of The Circle but less during the production process... On the flip side, he did less writing during KTF but added more musicianship and Co Producing...

Second, from what I observed throughout their many years together, they have or had a great 'PROFESSIONAL FRIENDSHIP'... They weren't ever best friends regardless of what Jon had muttered a few times. They both care about each other but to say they are best friends is an overstatement... They don't hang out, go to dinner, or even see each other during their off times... I have a great work friend who I hang with all the time but our friendship never leaves the professional environment... We hang all day long and even do lunch together but once we leave, we hardly ever hang out... Beside a phone call of text every so often we'll only get together for a special occasion... That's Jon and Richie and the Band... I think when they are all together working, they are tight as ever but when they are separated, they hardly see each other or even talk... No band members have ever been to the Soul Kitchen or Dave's restaurant for that matter... Dave is a silent partner at a restaurant right down the street from The Soul Kitchen and he's never even been there....

You need to get out of this fantasy world and bring it back to reality..


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It sounds to me like you're the one who doesn't believe Jon. I took what both Michael Francis and Lonn Friend said with a grain of salt until Jon confirmed it. Maybe you missed that part of the post.

I'm not twisting what Jon says, Rosa. JON twists what Jon says. All I did was point out some of the times when he's done it.