You must admit one thing: they are so good at hiding that bad blood! When the band nearly broke for the first time, nobody knew bc they were rocking the stage like there was no tomorrow. Those splits, clashes and departures along the way seem sudden and unxepected but constant dropping wears away a stone. It makes so much sense now.

I know. That was my point.

Becky, if you don't want to have discussions with me, don't. I can understand how it might bore you to exchange ideas with someone who hasn't breathed the same rarified air that it seems you have. So don't put yourself out. You don't have to make a lot of excuses about why. Most people can figure it out anyway; and I assure you, my world will keep turning just the same, regardless.

I'm glad you enjoyed those shows, Javier. There were a few moments I enjoyed - Jon Bon Marco, the choreography in Milan, Phil-X's mash up of Stairway to Heaven and Highway to Hell. Most of them weren't that great, imo, because there was just something lacking and they made me sad, for obvious reasons.

My comment about that being when the band started falling apart was based more on what I read from others here than on what I thought about it. I'm self-aware enough to know that my personal opinion was skewed to begin with; there was no "started" to it; it just fell apart, period. :)

I personally wish the whole tour hadn't happened. But I'm glad it represented something totally different to you.

What can I say, I'm an optimist :D ...

(I'm replying to messages from a lifetime ago so apologies if it's not clear what I'm talking about, it's hard to follow this thread with all the Richie VS Jon drama, please bring it somewhere else thanks)

The thing is, he's not coming back vocally. Ever. And you either make peace with this or you don't, but he's past the point of no return.

That's obviously a huge problem for lots of people. It doesn't make a lot of sense to pay big $$$ to hear Jon murder the same ol' tired songs you've heard a dozen times before. Not even if you love said songs. Waste of money. You have to love the new album and pray they will play enough songs from it to justify going to a BJ show in 2017/2018 and with the abysmal vocal performances AND ESPECIALLY Jon's inability to engage the crowd, it's just not justifiable anymore. (The ladies on Twitter and FB don't agree with me though, so I guess my rant is useless, I'm clearly in the minority of the fans Jon want)

What's my point though? That Jon stepping out of his comfort zone is the only thing that'll make a difference from now on and chosing TD of all the safe songs he could've tried could point in that direction. His performance (and I'm talking now about Jon the frontman) is still poor, very poor, which is why I'm not holding my breath or saving any money. I've said this many times and I'll say it many times more: I'd rather have a subpar voice but a frontman that delivers every night and a setlist that feels as if he's given it a thought. Changing setlists, Jon really wanting to be there, songs that mean something both for him/the band and the fans. Incredibly simple. He can't hide behind the mic with the excuse that it's the only way he can deliver vocally because he simply can't anymore. It's not going to make a difference whether he's glued to the mic or running around the stage doing cartwheels and backflips, he's going to sound shit anyway. He's run out of excuses for everything. There's nothing preventing him from MOVING around the stage (he's always pictured running so pretty sure he can handle moving a little bit a few times a week for 10 weeks), from changing the setlists, etc. And please no more excuses, the 2015 mini-tour had a new guitarist that probably only knew LOAP and Wanted and they had more variety in 5 shows than in the whole first leg of the THINFS tour, with the same band plus their producer/co-writer/backup studio guitarist instead of an anonymous guitarist, STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR JON. He's the one making that decision and it's not based on the band's capabilities.

And speaking of shouting, man, what a horrible horrible shouting fest I just saw. He's still shouting his way through the songs which I'm sure it's much more damaging than smoking or whatever. It's frankly puzzling and it sounds like shit too. The whole performance is so patchy that I had to stop the videos in many places and I couldn't finish most of the songs. But hey there were some long sustained notes in there, he's back! (jk)

This performance is all over the place vocally. It's distracting me from enjoying the band as a whole and makes me feel embarrassed for him, does Jon even have a technique now? It ****ing seems as if he doesn't have a ****ing clue about how to sing anymore. And have they downtuned the songs again? BOR was horribly horribly slow, it sounded like your average karaoke playback track completed with the average karaoke singer who gets a standing ovation for trying way too hard. The singer part was already my impression after the first leg, but the band has never sounded so weak? uninspired? Maybe the sound quality is shitty I dunno, it sounded pretty off

And I'm saying all of this from a place of "damn, I don't want to give up on this band, I really don't, but they (Jon) are making it so damn hard when all I want is pretty simple and doable, I even feel hopeful for a second when they throw the fans a small bone" :(

Nah... Jon can still improve and I had a great time at the 3 shows that I attended... It's still worth it...

I agree. Jon will never come back as the singer he used to be, not even as the one who last appeared at the Hyde Park show on July 5, 2013 and disappeared immediately afterwards. The best we can hope for is Jon getting his energy/stage presence back to a level where his substandard vocals can be somehow forgiven. THIS is the JBJ I'd like to see on stage again:

https://youtu.be/TSsoMIIcAt8

For me - Jon's vocals aside - the October/November '13 gigs were f***ing kick-ass (even the ones where Tico didn't appear). And before someone reminds me of the nightmare that was Rock In Rio, let me remind him/her about it having been in September.

As an example, let's take a look at the Fresno gig on October 8, 2013 (Teek's comeback show after the surgery):

https://youtu.be/PgCSpc4gmf0

Yes, we all know that the set list could be much better. Yes, we all know that Jon's voice could (at least in theory) be better. But holy f***, the energy - THE ENERGY - is astounding. That's what I miss the most about JBJ's performances today.

Just had a listen to songs from this show.

Wow - Jon sounds incredibly bad (he sounds even worse compared to when I saw Bon Jovi in Detroit this year). He sounds awful compared to even a handful of years ago (let alone during the Keep The Faith and These Days eras).

He needs a long rest to get back to 100% (maybe not vocally - but psychologically).

He's had more than enough rest/recovery time since the BWC tour ended. He's just done. Singers have shelf lives, some shorter than others. And due to poor technique and lifestyle choices, Jon has used his.