Jovitalk - Bon Jovi Fan Community - Verizon Arena 03/20/2018 Little Rock, AR

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- - Verizon Arena 03/20/2018 Little Rock, AR - TREAD (https://drycounty.com/jovitalk/showthread.php?t=70260)

Sebs dead on. If you think their relevancy died in 2005 so why try to fix things.....I don't get it. I'm not saying swapping songs in and out will put them back in stadiums but why not try and go after more than the masses who are so indifferent to the songs they don't know?

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I get what manarosi is saying tho, reviewers and casual fans are indeed clueless most of the time.

I read this article a few days back https://www.heraldextra.com/entertai...aebc77ada.html that basically says they are playing for all their fans! they have hits and album cuts! you've never seen an act like this one before, they have a song for every album and every era!

Quote:

The energetic frontman wasn't kidding either. Of the nearly two dozen songs performed Friday, only two of them had never been released as singles. The solid gold repertoire, however, was a good representation of the band's 35-year history as it touched on material from 10 of its 13 studio albums.

You read this and you'd be fooled into thinking that they are mixing hits and album cuts right and left and their set is a perfect balance of styles and eras.

But the fact is that fans are complaining. Take a look at twitter and facebook and you'll see that other than the same 2-3 people posting lots of pictures (which it's not a bad thing eh), the regular joe that attends more than one show will complain about hearing the same SHIT. Yes, I said shit because 60% of the setlist is shit, nobody is complaining about the hits but there's TONS of room for improvement and small changes every night. Which we also discussed in almost every 2017 show

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic (Post 1236788)

Aloha !

He can't sing the ones currently in the set either, so this is hardly a valid excuse.

Further on, considering as to how he's playing "all the hits..." Playing all your hits is never a good thing, for a large group of casual fans it means that once you've seen an act there's no desire to go back. You also don't "need" to play every hit. Many bands can get away with not playing their biggest hit(s). Especially an act like Bon Jovi, who've got the luxury of over 10 top 40 hits. Ignore 5 and you've still got a set with hits most bands would be jealous at.

As for those who honestly believe there's no room for improvement: Those marked in red were either album tracks or singles that barely charted:

1. This House Is Not For Sale
2. Knockout
3. You Give Love a Bad Name
4. Whole Lot of Leavin'
5. Lost Highway
6. When We Were Us
7. Born to Be My Baby
8. Who Says You Can't Go Home
9. It's My Life
10. We Weren't Born to Follow
11. I'll Sleep When I'm Dead
12. We Got It Goin' On
13. Keep the Faith
14. Amen
15. Bed of Roses
16. Lay Your Hands on Me
17. God Bless This Mess
18. Have a Nice Day
19. Bad Medicine

Encore:
20. Wanted Dead or Alive
21. Livin' on a Prayer

That's close to half the set. Now I get promoting a record, but it's a pointless excersize to play more than 3 new songs when non of the singles even charted properly. Bon Jovi plays 4. This leaves 6 slots open for stuff that could be rotated for pretty much everything.

Are you honestly saying there's no room in this set for 6 different songs? The last time I saw this band was 5 years ago. Out of the all the album cuts that are still being played there's 1 rarely played and it's Amen. Do you honestly believe Amen is there to please the die hards? No, it's there because Jon wants to play it, no one gives a shit about Amen.

Now as for playing "all the hits". They're not. These are the biggest hits they're currently ignoring:

- Runaway
- Only Lonely
- I'll Be There For You
- Living In Sin
- In These Arms
- Always
- This Ain't A Love Song
- Thank You For Loving Me
- (You Want To) Make A Memory

Sure, they're not their biggest hits, but neither is Have A Nice Day and it's there anyway. Out of these 9 songs they've been ignoring the same 5 songs for the last 25 years. Unless you're lucky, then you might just get Always or Living In Sin. Now you could pick 2, put them in the set and out of a list of 21 songs 2 would be aimed at the die hards. Now fill the other 4 slots with album cuts that fits the category "general partystuff" like Raise Your Hands or We Got It Goin' On and you've get a much better setlist.

Let's recreate the set with stuff that's relatively easy to sing and would go over well enough with American audiences:

1. This House Is Not For Sale
2. Knockout
3. You Give Love a Bad Name
4. 99 In The Shade
5. Just Older
6. When We Were Us
7. Born to Be My Baby
8. Who Says You Can't Go Home
9. It's My Life
10. This Ain't A Love Song
11. Breakout
12. Little Bit Of Soul
13. Keep the Faith
14. Thank You For Loving Me
15. Bed of Roses
16. Lay Your Hands on Me
17. God Bless This Mess
18. Have a Nice Day
19. Bad Medicine

Encore:
20. Wanted Dead or Alive
21. Livin' on a Prayer

All I did was change 6 songs. I put in 2 extra hits and then added 4 album cuts of which only 2 have barely been played in their entire career. Now tell me again how this setlist doesn't work, and the ones Bon Jovi come up with does? For a band who keeps going on about how the Hall of Fame was a thank you to the fans they show little appreciation towards the die hards when actually playing in front of them.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Those marked Red Just confirm my point, After HAND bj has been Pretty much irrevelant, so he can't pick big hits After HAND because there has been none,but at the same time he can't pick from 80's-90's records ( cause we all know he would be just buried by diehards because of his vocals). What's left?? 99,breakout and soul are known by 4 people, it would make those 1k people in the arena happy but leave unsatisfied casuals,it can't bè the solution( might be for a night, what about the next one?)... What i'm trying to say is that the songs that he can really pick to make casuals and diehards happy( want It or not but songs like sleep and wgigo can be fun at a concert) and that can bè sang(or at least not completely botched) by jbj are those 30 that are played today...he might variate 3-4 at night like u said but It won't change Pretty much anything

Just to make it clear i don't like this situation either so don't kill me please i'm Just trying to have a chat :mrgreen:

Quote:

Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1236792)

And Amen is known by?
Or WLOL?
Or fvcking Born To Follow which tanked everywhere and unlike Everyday (that was somewhat popular) he's hellbent on TRYING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN
Or...?

We could do this all day long.

The reasoning is, if you go to several shows, you'll get used to all the *hits* that Jon is trying to cram down everybody's throat. But if you go to several shows, you'll hear the same basic setlist almost down to a T which means you'll probably don't go to more than 2-3 shows if you where planning to do more, which will mean that you'll forget about those songs nobody cares about because they are frankly shit songs. Same would happen if he sang King Of The Mountain. You either know it and enjoy it, don't know it but like it or ignore it. To an average casual fan Amen is as rare as King Of The Mountain so the reasoning behind why so many songs are not being played is simply a lie.

Do you honestly think that people are listening to Amen and saying damn I want more of this??

PS: I posted before I saw your reply, this rant is not against you but against defending their bullshit

Quote:

Originally Posted by symbeline (Post 1236794)

There are more chances that casuals know amen because it's from 2013 rather than King of the Mountain...then amen has the task to make jon's vocals look good tbh...
Btw we're arguing about something that maybe 200-300 people do (i mean going to multiple dates) so It is Pretty much irrevelant to them

Quote:

Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1236792)

Get where you're coming from but I disagree. If he's conditioning fans to like the songs he does by playing the non hits tour after tour after tour then sure. But there are album cuts not being played. Joe Q doesn't know Whole Lot of Leaving. Big fan Does. Whole lot of Leaving gets played for 10 years and Big Fan leaves. Joe Q probably won't see them again, Big Fan would. Swap out Whole Lot with another album cut and the people who have gone again and again are happy, the public doesn't know better and no one is walking away going "Jeez, really expected WLOL I'm bummed out". Taking those songs out of rotation won't have 1/10th the same reaction as dropping Bad Medicine.

You can't honestly tell me with a straight face vocal troubles are the reason he doesn't sing Novocaine, Everybody's Broken, Mystery Train etc. We're not asking for rare songs, we're talking about different songs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi (Post 1236796)

You've got a point but they can't afford the risk! Rock isn't "trendy" anymore, if they swap songs with some that people don't know the next time Joe Q anyways is not there, but even rosa g won't bè there because everything She wants is to see jbj and to sing along with him songs She knows already...people going nowadays is the same as 10 years ago...It can work if u rotate 2-3 songs but idk if the situation might change...a way to get in a lot of a different songs might be doing an acoustic show/tour but then again Joe Q would go there only once...i think they are in a bad bad situation where (from a business prospective) playing It safe is good for them...they don't have the ability anymore to gather new fans or have a generational change...(aviici was such an opportunity back in the data)

Quote:

Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1236798)

I just don't see how playing the same album cuts for every tour equals playing it safe. It's not gaining fans, it's losing fans. This isn't paying it safe, it's playing it lazy.

Aloha !

Quote:

Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1236792)

You still don't get it. Saying 99 In the Shade is known by 4 people is saying a song like Raise Your Hands is known by 4 people. Both are album cuts from the big albums from the eighties and both were never issued as a single. Raise Your Hands works well because of its catchy chorus, 99 In the Shade might just work the same way. I'll Sleep When I'm Dead has been played at pretty much every single show since 1993 yet it barely charted in America. I very much doubt a casual fan knows the song, but it's got a party vibe. Little Bit Of Soul would work the same way but that one gets ignored.

Further on, Whole Lot Of Leavin' caused a piss break at every Bon Jovi show I've seen in America. The same for Lost Highway and We Weren't Born To Follow. You keep going on about vocal issues being the reason why he won't play the rare stuff, but considering how he sings Bad Medicine there's no reason to believe that's the reason why.

I saw 4 shows in New Jersey back in 2010. The show with the most rare songs had the loudest crowds because there was no Lost Highway/Whole Lot Of Leavin' combo. It kills a crowd every single time I saw it getting played. Yet he insists on keeping it in there. I'm sure Jon loves the songs, but if your argument is not being able to play other stuff people don't know, it should count for those songs as well.

By now the band has released roughly 200 songs. They've got 10 top 40 hits. And you're saying out of the other 190, stuff like Amen, Lost Highway, Whole Lot Of Leavin', We Weren't Born To Follow and so on needs to be played in order for a casual fan not to leave disappointed? They can't risk it?

If you honestly believe this band would lose people over 4 songs in a set including 10 top 40 songs you have little faith in the hits anyway. They're in the Hall of Fame exactly because the huge amount of hits and the people who keep coming to these shows. Even with the band at its all time low right now they're still able to play Madison Square Garden. They've got nothing to lose, which should be all the more reason to mix it up.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan