Jovitalk - Bon Jovi Fan Community - Verizon Arena 03/20/2018 Little Rock, AR

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- - Verizon Arena 03/20/2018 Little Rock, AR - TREAD (https://drycounty.com/jovitalk/showthread.php?t=70260)

Quite simply, they've not recorded anything like enough first class material since Crush at least (and many would say that was being generous), their best songs since then have never caught the public imagination or have been rarely played, and it's ever harder to paper over the cracks live.

And at the same time, they've been robbing fans blind, every chance they get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic (Post 1236800)

Aloha !

You still don't get it. Saying 99 In the Shade is known by 4 people is saying a song like Raise Your Hands is known by 4 people. Both are album cuts from the big albums from the eighties and both were never issued as a single. Raise Your Hands works well because of its catchy chorus, 99 In the Shade might just work the same way. I'll Sleep When I'm Dead has been played at pretty much every single show since 1993 yet it barely charted in America. I very much doubt a casual fan knows the song, but it's got a party vibe. Little Bit Of Soul would work the same way but that one gets ignored.

Further on, Whole Lot Of Leavin' caused a piss break at every Bon Jovi show I've seen in America. The same for Lost Highway and We Weren't Born To Follow. You keep going on about vocal issues being the reason why he won't play the rare stuff, but considering how he sings Bad Medicine there's no reason to believe that's the reason why.

I saw 4 shows in New Jersey back in 2010. The show with the most rare songs had the loudest crowds because there was no Lost Highway/Whole Lot Of Leavin' combo. It kills a crowd every single time I saw it getting played. Yet he insists on keeping it in there. I'm sure Jon loves the songs, but if your argument is not being able to play other stuff people don't know, it should count for those songs as well.

By now the band has released roughly 200 songs. They've got 10 top 40 hits. And you're saying out of the other 190, stuff like Amen, Lost Highway, Whole Lot Of Leavin', We Weren't Born To Follow and so on needs to be played in order for a casual fan not to leave disappointed? They can't risk it?

If you honestly believe this band would lose people over 4 songs in a set including 10 top 40 songs you have little faith in the hits anyway. They're in the Hall of Fame exactly because the huge amount of hits and the people who keep coming to these shows. Even with the band at its all time low right now they're still able to play Madison Square Garden. They've got nothing to lose, which should be all the more reason to mix it up.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

as you said, both hands and sleep have been played a lot so, even if those didn't chart, them are well known to the fan that goes to the concert and just don't care about jon's vocals, richie's absence and so on. same thing works for lh, follow and so on that have been overplayed (i agree that those have grown tired to many) but that have been at least heard few times by that same fan. meanwhile 99 or soul are going to be the same way a piss break,same as whole lot of leavin', but for different reasons (just because people don't know them...and please don't tell me that nowadays the casual who goes to a bj concert is interested in knowing new songs or rare songs like 99 'cause that's not the case) but this way the diehard would just complain cause that song has been butchered and the casual will be disappointed because he didn't know the song... diehards always complain :mrgreen: btw how long do u think they can sell out msg?? i don't see big and florid days coming for this band...we'll all be happy when probably they'd retire as a group and jbj will sell acoustic shows in theathers playing the entire catalogue rearranged

I started collecting bootleg concerts around 1989. Even back then Jon and the whole band talked about how the set list was different every night.

It wasn’t. It rarely has been and rarely will be.

The only reason I say rarely instead of never is they have done a few different things every now and again like opening a show with Wanted or when they used to throw in an acoustic set. The set list for every tour has been pretty stable. 35 years in, take it or leave it.

We would all like to know we could be surprised, but by now you ought to know not to buy tickets with that expectation.

The set list thing is just pure laziness on Jon's part. Not many bands can say they have hundreds songs to choose from in their back catalog, so why pick the same ones every night? Really missing out on an opportunity to make every show unique, I just don't get it...

I was gonna try and get a hold of people in the Jovi camp, I will donate $1,000 to Jon's Soul Kitchen charity if plays "Bounce" or "Next 100 Years" in Milwaukee. Maybe he needs incentive to play different things, I don't know. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1236803)

On this board there's I'd say just about 10 people who can tell you the last time a certain song was played. If you honestly believe a casual fan remembers the songs he's heard in concert he hasn't heard before you're delusional. Your average fan can barely remember what hits were played, all he remembers is how "he knew many songs". Hence the argument how the songs your average fan doesn't know can be exchanged for pretty much everything. A song like God Bless This Mess is just as interesting as a song like Lost Highway; Neither one is known by the masses and thus can be exchanged for anything. An average fan will always prefer a hit over something he doesn't know though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1236803)

meanwhile 99 or soul are going to be the same way a piss break,same as whole lot of leavin', but for different reasons (just because people don't know them...and please don't tell me that nowadays the casual who goes to a bj concert is interested in knowing new songs or rare songs like 99 'cause that's not the case)

If a song like Wild In The Streets or Raise Your Hands didn't cause a piss break 15 years ago why would a song like 99 In the Shade do so nowadays? During the 3 opening shows I saw at Giants in 2010 the ones without the massive bathroom exodus was the one without Lost Highway and Whole Lot Of Leavin'. By your logic the average fans have gotten used to the songs nowadays, yet 8 years later it's still causing the same massive piss break. In 2010 however, during 1 show the songs were exchanged for stuff like Just Older and In These Arms and people stayed in their seats. But, by your arguments, mixing it up this way wouldn't work because people still prefer the other stuff to take a piss break? The shows in America I saw with the best crowds were the ones with the better setlists as well.

Further on, especially in America, the eighties stuff works incredibly well over there. While in the rest of the world their career really took off in the nineties and people go see Bon Jovi play anything, in America a lot of people go see Bon Jovi to hear the eighties stuff. It's a gimmick, a fad people want to relive for nostalgic reasons. Anything afterwards is irrelevant unless it's a ballad, a hit, or a party song. Hence stuff like We Weren't Born To Follow not working and a song like I'll Sleep When I'm Dead does. A lot of fans over there, and I'm not talking about the die hards, either just want to punch their fist in the air during the eighties stuff or hold their partner during the ballads. And then take a piss during the songs that falls out of the category.

Quote:

but this way the diehard would just complain cause that song has been butchered and the casual will be disappointed because he didn't know the song... diehards always complain :mrgreen:

Again, right now, Jon butchers anything they're playing. I'd say a die hard who's still going would rather hear him butcher a song like Breakout than hear the band go through Whole Lot Of Leavin' for the umpteenth time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manarosi (Post 1236803)

btw how long do u think they can sell out msg?? i don't see big and florid days coming for this band...we'll all be happy when probably they'd retire as a group and jbj will sell acoustic shows in theathers playing the entire catalogue rearranged

I don't think Bon Jovi will ever have a problem playing Madison Square Garden. Their fanbase over there is huge as New Jersey is quite close and they're a pretty big band around that area. It's the rest of the U.S.A. that's slowly losing interest.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

They definitely should start doing different setlists every night based from what I read.
No need to make it extremely different every night.
Only some rarer or different songs that are good.

I agree with Seb, I'd much rather hear a rarity get butchered than not be played at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supersonic (Post 1236810)

Aloha !

Manarosi, you twist your argument as you see fit. It's hard to debate things when you switch your point of view from one way to the other. Plenty of points you try to make, make me wonder if you've actually seen shows in America, or if you've even seen shows yourself as your judgement towards the way an audience reacts to certain songs is off.

On this board there's I'd say just about 10 people who can tell you the last time a certain song was played. If you honestly believe a casual fan remembers the songs he's heard in concert he hasn't heard before you're delusional. Your average fan can barely remember what hits were played, all he remembers is how "he knew many songs". Hence the argument how the songs your average fan doesn't know can be exchanged for pretty much everything. A song like God Bless This Mess is just as interesting as a song like Lost Highway; Neither one is known by the masses and thus can be exchanged for anything. An average fan will always prefer a hit over something he doesn't know though.

If a song like Wild In The Streets or Raise Your Hands didn't cause a piss break 15 years ago why would a song like 99 In the Shade do so nowadays? During the 3 opening shows I saw at Giants in 2010 the ones without the massive bathroom exodus was the one without Lost Highway and Whole Lot Of Leavin'. By your logic the average fans have gotten used to the songs nowadays, yet 8 years later it's still causing the same massive piss break. In 2010 however, during 1 show the songs were exchanged for stuff like Just Older and In These Arms and people stayed in their seats. But, by your arguments, mixing it up this way wouldn't work because people still prefer the other stuff to take a piss break? The shows in America I saw with the best crowds were the ones with the better setlists as well.

Further on, especially in America, the eighties stuff works incredibly well over there. While in the rest of the world their career really took off in the nineties and people go see Bon Jovi play anything, in America a lot of people go see Bon Jovi to hear the eighties stuff. It's a gimmick, a fad people want to relive for nostalgic reasons. Anything afterwards is irrelevant unless it's a ballad, a hit, or a party song. Hence stuff like We Weren't Born To Follow not working and a song like I'll Sleep When I'm Dead does. A lot of fans over there, and I'm not talking about the die hards, either just want to punch their fist in the air during the eighties stuff or hold their partner during the ballads. And then take a piss during the songs that falls out of the category.

Again, right now, Jon butchers anything they're playing. I'd say a die hard who's still going would rather hear him butcher a song like Breakout than hear the band go through Whole Lot Of Leavin' for the umpteenth time.

I don't think Bon Jovi will ever have a problem playing Madison Square Garden. Their fanbase over there is huge as New Jersey is quite close and they're a pretty big band around that area. It's the rest of the U.S.A. that's slowly losing interest.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

i'm italian, i've been to udine,chicago 2011 and milan 2013 so yes, i've been to some concert, i'm certainly not somebody who's seen 20000 shows live but i don't think that relates to this argument tbh.
i don't really like tbh the tone you are using but let's forget about it.
do you really think that these days there are many fans going FOR THE FIRST TIME to a bj concert??
first of all, today's crowd is different to 15 years ago crowd, you can't simply compare them and neither you can compare a bj concert of 15 years ago to a 2018 one.
second of all you are comparing two rock/fun songs with 2 semi-country songs, can't compare them too 'cause they have a different role during a concert( you can't have a full rocky concert neither a full country one, you have to balance them), and we're talking about songs that have been out since 11 years, not 3 like in 2010, maybe them should be a little bit more known now than in 2010 since those have been overplayed don't you think?
third, i didn't say that those aren't piss break songs, what i'm trying to say is that if he replaces those songs with songs that nobody knows that's pretty useless don't you think? call it lazyness, whatever you like but frankly that's it. it would benefit only the "diehards" but then again they would just bury jon for the performance.
fourth, as i already said, why should they play 80's songs that are UNSUSTAINABLE for jon and that can only damage them? i think you're aware of what could become this forum if hey god it's played and butchered by jon, imagine if everybody realizes the situation what a bad bad situation would be for bj.
fifth, how many diehards do you think are going nowadays?
let me repeat this for like the 4th time, i'm not trying to defend them, i'm not paid from them (sadly) and i'm not some troll like somebody else is, i've told u what concert i've been too, u should know the setlist of those concert so how can i like this situation?? what i'm trying to figure out here is that MAYBE the setlist is not the first thing to worry about...when i'd hear an entire concert with THIS seltist that sounded at least decent then i'll worry about the setlist..otherwise we should really really be grateful that this circus is still going on and that most of the people don't care about the actual problems...then it would be the end (KISS anyone?)

Are there any videos of this gig on YT?? I've only watched BOR.

One of the users have uploaded WDOA, LOAP, THINFS, etc (Not all of them though).
I don't remember who but it's the user that has filmed behind the stage (seats behind stage).