I can't think of enough thumbs up, Jackie. Oh, God, why are they so freaking stubborn? :/

Agree with this completely Jackie, I was purely talking about the vocals, which in my opinion too would remain as they are now, even if Richie came back. Jon absoutely misses Richie on a performance level, it was always the two of them out there on the front and now it's just one. That's got to be tough!

I have an answer for that. (But the males on the board probably wouldn't like it.) ;)

I'm of two minds about this so I agree with you both.

My rational side knows that the band is over. Jon will never go back to being the performer he was and even if I lowered my standards (which are admittedly very high because I wouldn't accept less for the price they ask) I would NEVER see them without Richie. It feels wrong to me, simple as that. I can't even watch a whole show because I feel absolutely numb, BJ live do absolutely nothing for me post Richie. To be fair the point of no return was the 2013 BBC promo show, the embarrassingly (and pathetically funny) display of disrespect to the fans. If they didn't care about getting their shit together for the fans, I wouldn't waste my time and money. What came afterwards was just the icing on the cake. So this ship has sailed for me and I know nothing will happen that can pull me back in.

But there's also a tiny romantic side that wants things to improve, wants to feel proud about the band again. To see them making people happy and performing to their usual standards to boast about what a ****ing great live band they are, even if it's not for me. And this side of me is intrigued by this impostor that has taken Jon's place. About the whole situation really, it's just very strange that they drone on and on about how much fun they are having, how amazing their touring schedule is now, how rejuvenated the band feels and then you see Jon either plastering a very fake smile or having that vacant look in his eyes.

I also see the "outside" world view and I get why Jon is still venerated as a god. You have to admit that the guy has fought his way back through all the shit that happened before, during and after the BWC tour and has managed to make a comeback with a no.1 album, a successful tour and "hit" singles. Yes, we know that's not true by any stretch, but the casual fan or the music fan that doesn't follow Bon Jovi closely gets that info from serious sources so why would they doubt it? I get why they keep touring, why they keep charging exorbitant amounts of money for a lifeless, sub par show. They spin the story and sell that underdog narrative that attracts people and back it up with all those articles, so... *shrugs*

Mental or physical..
Theoretically (Maybe hypothetically idk..) the best Jon ever will sound singing BOR, Lost Highway, etc:
He will sound like what he currently does if he doesn't change anything (Using twang or whatever you might do) and might be a bit flat sometimes (Depends on how high the note he's hitting is of course.) but he won't crack, be inconsistent, be out of tempo or anything like that at all.
I think that's easily listenable if it was like that.

If he sounded like 2011 it would have been good enough for me.

1:30 - 2:20 he is so friggin tense and just can't shake it off. It's stressful to watch.

I don't care how many tickets they are selling or how great the press reviews are, it really wouldn't surprise me if this is the last tour. Jon is so uncomfortable in his own skin.

Poor Johnny U_U
In the meantime, on bonjovi.com...
http://www.bonjovi.com/wp-content/up...ER_AU_03-1.jpg
http://www.bonjovi.com/wp-content/up...NNER_AU_02.jpg

That performance is honestly heartbreaking - one of the saddest things I've ever had to witness during the 15 years of my fandom. Jon is trying so hard, but it seems like his whole body has run completely out of gas at this point. His technique is basically non-existent, he's shrugging his shoulders and tensing his gut/diaphragm all the time (which makes hitting the notes even harder), gripping the mic stand as if he was dying.

Poor guy. I feel very bad for him, even though I think he (at least mostly) caused it all by himself. Had it been because of Richie/psychological reasons, he definitely would've gotten over it by now as it's been almost six years since his departure.

Yeah, and then he starts walking and immediately things get better. It's got to be at least 60% a mental problem...

Genuinely felt a bit sad watching this. He looks so awkward. It's almost as if he's wanting to look like it's easy but his body just won't let him. No surprise that he sounds better the second he walks away from the microphone stand. Still not great though.

I was speaking to Andy (Jeeper) yesterday as I was watching a video from this show and the quote 'we have nothing to prove' that JBJ said during the THINFS promotion kept coming into my head and I wondered what he meant by that.

It got me thinking, at that point of saying the quote, did he care about his vocal state? Did he care about being a frontman anymore? Does he have to prove he can still sing and move around? His voice has deteriorated since 2016, let alone 2013.

They're playing stadiums so he's obviously trying to prove they can play these venues.

It's sad seeing him like this.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

It probably isn't. Everyone's voice comes out more naturally when there's no additional muscle tension - as an experienced karaoke singer I've noticed that when I'm singing a song like BOR or Always and take the mic out of the stand, my whole body immediately relaxes as I start walking around and the high notes somehow become much easier to hit. In Jon's case it probably wouldn't help much, as his voice is so damaged that the high register has simply disappeared, but at least there would be some visual distraction from his vocal struggles if he was moving around more and therefor adding some energy into his performances.

Totally Agree
Before everyone watched JBJ and RS
No ones bothered re Hugh, Daves up the back and so is Tico (the hero of the band)
But now its all on JBJ he is now the soul attention on the stage. Again, no ones interested in Shanks, Phil X, Hugh and the other 2 still remain at the back. But everyone does say - who the **** is that guy on the bongos :-D

Performances like that are heartbreaking to watch. I don't know why I keep doing it. I will then watch something from the 80's and 90's and that kinda makes me sad too, to to see how far he has fallen and how magnificent he was!

Also, I wish they'd give Dave the Richie vocal parts in that song again. It's too much of a struggle for Phil....

While I don't think Jon's vocal inconsistency is a result of psychological issues (not for the most part anyway), it's indeed scary how fast his vocals deteriorated from roughly mid-July 2013 onwards. In my opinion, this was the last truly GREAT vocal performance Jon ever delivered:

https://youtu.be/VNtLjw1DKsM

And here's the same song just five months later:

https://youtu.be/YphfNmUWIWw

I can't think of any other singer who has declined so much within such a short time. I strongly believe this was a case very similar to the over-exhaustion of the Slippery tour, but this time all the additional strain and damage Jon had already caused his vocal cords during the past 25 years hit him IN ADDITION TO him pushing his voice even further in late '13 (remember how deliberately he was trying to sing songs like In These Arms and Always night after night back in October-November, although his voice was already shot to pieces by then):

https://youtu.be/vePaMPz-4uo

https://youtu.be/1ciE7sfZ8tY

As a conclusion, I think he simply beat his already worn-out vocal cords to death.

Phils a good axe player but he has no voice - well one that suits BonJovi

But take a look at that London video at 1:55 onwards. You already see today's Jon, just not as extreme. So it seems more like a steady decline after all, if a steep one :-(

Look at 2010, it was so effortless back then, that one has to ask the question what did happen between 2010/11 and 2013? He also looks much older and/or unhealthy in 2013 IMO...

BJFan99,
For some people something small can take several years to get cured from mentally.

I wonder if it is not only about Richie but also about other stuff in terms of the music.

Aloha !

What the **** is an experienced karaoke singer?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

This!
BJFan99: WORKING MEEEYYYEEEYYYEEHEN...

I meant that I have lots of experience singing Bon Jovi songs on karaoke, and I really have noticed that once I start moving around while singing, my voice immediately comes out easier and my range kinda "opens up" a bit more. Like Jon, I used to have the nasty habit of staying rooted to one spot and gripping the mic stand to make it easier for me to hit the notes (as I've been struggling like hell with my range because of puberty), but nowadays it really seems like it's easier when I'm not doing so.

I'm no vocal expert (as you seem to be), but this is how I feel it.

Seb is an expert in everything and nothing at the same time, don't let him bully you ;-)

Aloha !

Right. I'm no vocal expert either but am an experienced shower singer. I feel that when I'm in the shower and doing the Slippery When Wet record from start to finish it sounds best when I'm standing still. I think that's what Jon's going for here. I've noticed my range is a lot more stable when I'm washing my hair compared to my feet. Maybe other experienced shower singers can step in and comfirm or deny my ideas?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I disagree - I'm an expert campfire singer and I find I sing best when I'm sitting down on my camping chair with a few beers in me.

Dude! Where ya been?

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

Aloha !

Dude you've no idea what you're talking about. You can't even play most of Slippery on an acoustic guitar! My uncle, who's an experienced leaf blower singer says you need to be blowing leaf to gain volume. Not some dodgy Canadian rootbeers.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Oh my, the legendary two re-united at last! :-)

Yeah, the right amount of beer helps greatly, even on stage - too less and you overthink, too many and you're just mumbling jibberish! ;-)

I'm an experienced car drive singer and I've noticed that, when going at insane speeds, the tough songs become much easier because you don't overthink it too much anymore.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk

Those noises you make while entertaining yourself in the shower is not singing buddy... Especially that position you referenced to when you're 'washing your feet'...

That's for your other chat board. Please keep your desires elsewhere.. Commingling is not allowed here...



Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

Shut up! When you chat with me I make you sing like a “Professor on the music business” >_< jajaja

Jon at the mercy of his beloved white Mic stand during Living With The Ghost

His "white horse"

This made me laugh so hard