Richie Sambora, does he save the live show?
 

Simple really..

IF Richie Sambora turned up now does he save the live show?

You can keep either Shanks or X but would Sambora coming back be enough to keep the dream alive...

Over to you all.

For me, yeah. Forget YouTube, a lot of people who go the shows are saying positive stuff. Don't get me wrong, a lot are saying some bad stuff too but I think with Richie's vocals and presence, it helps the shows a lot.

I personally really enjoyed the R&R HOF performance. Whether it was just because Richie was back where he belongs, I don't know, but I felt like I was watching Bon Jovi again. I don't feel like I am currently.

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I'd definitely go to the upcoming UK shows if Richie was still in the band.

I'm not sure he'd save the show for casuals though.

His vocals and stage presence would really help to take the pressure off of Jon some. Would it save the show? I'm not sure, but it would certainly help things...Richie's vocals and playing are a big part of the Jovi sound for me and I really miss them....

I understand Sambora had become a bit the weakest link in the band but if he'd came back today, he would totally bring added value to the band.

At least it would be back to being a band with a captain and a wingman.

Question is what Richie is thinking when je sees Jon's performances.

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Not sure what he'd make of Jon's vocals but having another person playing guitar and solos of his songs must hurt to a degree.. Sambora will never be as popular as a solo artist as he was with Bon Jovi, what is he actually doing whilst the band are playing his songs to thousands of people?

Personally I do understand the need to step off the train in 2013 but 6 years on and he hasn't released anything worthwhile. Surely both parties are stronger together.

Richie is not what he used to be, but if he came back, the crowd isn't only going to concentrate on Jon and notice his struggles. Their harmonies somehow cover up Jon's inability to song anymore. It happened at the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame, I think. When their voices sing together, it's like they're a perfect unit, that's how I can describe it. Even 35 years later, their voices compliment each other. Jon needs Richie more than ever right now.

What makes you think that? On the last leg of the tour he he was performing very well.

I'd take him coming in for the encore of wanted and prayer if nothing else

Maybe reliability rather than performance

He became unreliable. During and after his divorce, be started drinking more and more. The other guys had to convince him to go to rehab twice or thrice, I think. He also basically showed up drunk for a 2007 Unplugged show, I think. The final nail in the coffin for him was when he just didn't show up and didn't inform anyone. Jon's ego is too big to just go and ask Richie to come back after everything that's happened.

I noticed on his final show in 2013 he sang I'll be there for you, not sure how many times on the 2013 tour he did that but I can't see any... also the last show was one of the shortest. I reckon he was pissed at not being as involved, demands to sing a song in the set, Jon gets pissed hence the shorter show and what we have is a battle of egos that drives a wedge.

Maybe, but why would he go with them to the next city for the next show then? Surely if he was pissed he would have told Jon to f*ck off and leave then and there?

Maybe Jon makes it clear he ain't singing again, taking the spotlight... might be completely wrong but it sounds to me likely.

He never went to Calgary.

There was a break in between those shows. He didn't go to the next city. March 17 was his last show, April 3rd was the Calgary show.

You think he banned Richie from singing because he wants the spotlight for himself? That doesn't sound close to likely to me. But that's me.

Whatever the reason he needs Sambora now more than ever

Well, it was odd that Richie only got to sing a song on the very last show of the first leg when Jon was clearly struggling physically throughout all the shows and Richie was the one carrying most of it. Back in 2008, there were times when Jon had Richie sing two songs when he wasn't fit.

It was odd, yeah. I've talked about this before but seeing 20 shows between 2003 and 2013 in North America, the Richie songs got more of a piss break than the new material. Part of me thinks they/Jon didn't want to risk it because they were playing literally half of an unreleased album already. Whether or not that's the case who knows but for all we know Richie could have been okay with the decision. It feels like people are getting offended FOR him without really knowing why the decision was made and if it was right/wrong. I was gutted he didn't get a song that tour but looking at the setlist it makes sense to me.

Richie said before the WAN tour that he was excited because he was getting to play his new album on the tour. Obviously one song a night but a rotation of his album tracks.

I don't have the link or remember exactly where he said it but he definitely did because I was quite surprised to see that he didn't even get to sing at all.

It's been discussed to death on here about what caused the split but perhaps Jon gave Richie the opportunity to sing his songs each night on the condition that he not f*ck around and Richie either missed a rehearsal or turned up drunk and Jon slammed the door shut. Which caused huge resentment.

It's a possibility.

Anything's possible. Jon said New Years Day was going to be the opening song this tour. Things change, setlists change before the tour. I truly think him singing an original song in North America on a tour with 6 other new songs is overkill but at the very least him singing a band hit would have been better. Who knows.

The first signs that things weren't quite right for me were in this interview where Jon says Richie didn't bother to turn up for rehearsals. He's laughing about it but knowing the pro Jon is, you know it would have pissed him off and it casts Richie in a bad light publicly.

1m30s in - https://youtu.be/hT_9IdaxlDw

The subsequent performance is very frosty. I don't think Jon looks Richie in the eye once and doesn't even do the usual interactions with him during the Bad Name solo or Wanted intro.


https://youtu.be/se8-Ii7TvYc

Sorry. I tried; but it's still long...
 

Before last week my answer would have been YES! But now, tbh, I'm not sure Bon Jovi IS saveable. Like Seb, I wouldn't be surprised if Jon has to cancel the rest of the tour at some point. I just don't see how he's going to be able to keep going like this; and I fear he's only doing more damage the longer he pushes it.

If it's just that Jon's pipes are physically shot, Richie can't do a thing. But if it's true that Jon "couldn't sing in the shower" because Richie left, part of the problem is psychological. If Richie's departure caused that, then it stands to reason his return would fix that part of it.

Anxiety seems to be an issue. It's been noted that it helps when Jon's relaxed; but how can he relax when he knows he's butchering songs and not performing at the level he used to? Especially given that he's always said, "When we can't perform at the level we're used to, I'll hang it up." It's a vicious cycle. He knows he sounds bad, so he tightens up, which makes him sound worse, so he tightens up more... People talk about Jon's great mood, or happy smiles and energy, and I wonder if we're watching the same shows. When I see Jon's face, it looks like he's in pain, scared witless, or absorbing sights and sounds as if he's thinking, "Is this the last time I'm gonna get to do this?"

In WWWB, Richie said his job was to keep Jon happy and take some of the load off of him. Jon doesn't like change; and this has been one hella change for him. Getting back to the way things were - or close as possible - might help. Of course, that depends on why Richie left. If it was purely substance abuse, the unreliability factor might only increase Jon's anxiety. If the primary reason was something else, and it could be resolved, then yeah, I think Jon getting his wingman back could go a long way towards saving Jovi.

Bottom line: imo, if anything can save Bon Jovi, it might be Richie coming back. The Rock Hall performance wasn't flawless, by any stretch. But nobody - band or fans - seemed to care. The chemistry was there; and the fun and joy of performing together. Both Jon and Richie looked happier, and seemed to be enjoying themselves more than any time I've seen either of them since April 2013. It was magical. And at this point, I'm afraid the only thing that has a snowball's chance in hell of saving Bon Jovi is a little touch of magic.

A lot of people talk as if Richie was on top of his game when he left. Let’s not forget he was far from it, even though he was OK by his 2013 standards. I don’t think he would save the show, because since 2006 his voice went downhill as well, and he was no longer the “leading backing voice” anymore. That was Bobby. So it wouldn’t make much diference today when it comes to backing up Jon’s vocals. As for guitar playing, of course his style is the right one for Bon Jovi, but he had become a very sloppy guitar player by then. I’d say the last time Richie stole the show with his playing was on Any Other Day in 2007 at the O2 Arena.

Yes, we've had this discussion before; and I'm sorry, Captain, but that dog still don't hunt. If it had been the first time they tried something like that, and then stopped it when he saw the result, I might buy it. But I'm pretty sure that Jon was at the same shows you were, plus a few; so he would have been fully aware of when people took beer/bathroom breaks, and that they were going to be singing a lot of songs from an unreleased album, before he told Richie he could sing songs from AOTL and continue promoting his album on the BWC tour. Not to mention the fact, also previously discussed, that lulls in the show or people taking breaks has never stopped Jon from doing any song that he wanted to do.

Not to beat a dead horse, but by the same token, it seems like people have been offended BY him for over 6 years now without really knowing why his decision was made either, or if it was right or wrong... but there seems to be very little concern about that. ;)

Tough one.
I’d love to think yes but do we know if Richie is clean 100% and Jbj voice isn’t going to suddenly come back.


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Richie was in good form after his rehab in 2011 until he left the tour in 2013. After recording Aftermath his voice was great and strong. When you watch the TV performances on the craig ferguson show you can see that.
I think he was really pissed that he wasn't allowed to play one song of his own material at every show.
At the iheart show in 2012 he and Jon had a good chemistry but at the sandy relief concert and the bbc show they weren't even looking at each other. Something must have happened between those shows and the split was only a matter of time.

Really? I remember reading in another thread a few years ago ,that he was with the band in Calgary, and then the obvious part that he never showed up.

I don't think Richie's return would make much, if any, difference on Jon's vocals in general. Actually, I don't think his absence has made Jon's voice decline anymore since 2013 - he was getting somewhat better around mid-to-late 2014 (as was showcased by the Red Bank benefit show in July, for example; his tone was much better and more pleasant there than in late '13) and then his voice just exploded again by the time the Asian tour came up in September 2015, probably due to either physical or other psychological reasons (such as being afraid of failing the shows and ultimately doing so, or - maybe a bit far-fetched - that damn Buffalo Bills/record company thing). His vocals have also been getting subsequently worse since late '15, starting to crack uncontrollably and gaining the clipped, whispery tone more and more each year, which to me indicates either a sudden lung/voicebox-related health problem, or a failed vocal chord surgery in the vein of Paul Stanley.

Either way, it's all just speculation and will probably never be fully resolved.

PS. Jon's vocals excluded, that post of yours is absolutely spot on and sums up the feelings of us both perfectly, once again. That said, I would never have been able to put them into words as greatly as you did, so kudos to you :)

Watch some of the footage from the tour right before Richie left, he was on fire for most of those shows...

Richie's voice was still all over those shows. Yes Bobby was doing more, but Richie's vocals were still at the forefront of the backing vocals without a doubt. You can't help but miss that in the current line up.

He called Jon the day before the show, asking if it was okay for him to come at the day of the concert. The following day, he called the tour manager, telling him he wasn't going to come.

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Thanks, and you could be right. As I said, if it's purely physical, Richie wouldn't help a bit (except for coverage or distraction); and I have no problem with you disagreeing about the possible psych effect Richie had on Jon's singing. It's not my theory, anyway. :)
Jon's the one who said repeatedly, in 2016, that Richie's departure was so devastating he couldn't sing in the shower or write songs during all of 2014. But as you pointed out, Jon did several shows in 2014 without noticeable difficulty. In a 2014 interview, he also said he'd written a dozen songs for a new album, his heart was broken over the NFL deal and betrayal by the record company, and losing Richie was no big deal because being in a rock band's not a life sentence.

That's why I prefaced all of it with "If it's true...". I've learned to add that caveat to anything that's based on Jon's comments. With the way he contradicts himself to suit his current story, it's hard to know what the truth really is. :)

Richie was the Bon Jovi sound. Lets not fool ourselves here. Jon was the commercial showman who sold the records but Richie was the soul that kept people coming back.

Tico and David are replaceable but Richie is not. I don't know much about guitar work but hearing Phil and his terrible tone and workman like guitar playing makes me realise how great Richie was.

Removing Richie from the equation is like taking tomato sauce out of a bolognese and still calling it bolognese.

So yeah, he'd save it.

Jon doing a song he wants to do that tanks creates a lull, Jon leaving the stage creates people flat out leaving for a bit. While both are bad, one is worse. I'm obviously not saying that 100 percent played into the decision.

My brain is foggy sometimes, do we have some interview with Jon saying Richie was going to sing his new songs on the tour? I know there was the one that Richie gave. It feels like we're treating this like they had an agreement where they'd tour earlier than expected in exchange for him promoting his album on tour and I don't know where it's coming from.

IMO, each of the original members, including Hugh and Alec, contributed something unique that defined the Bon Jovi sound in the beginning. So I can't agree that Tico and Dave are replaceable. Otherwise, I agree with every word.

I don't know guitars either, but I know voices; and both Jon's and Richie's are so distinctive that either of them would be hard to emulate, much less duplicate or replace. Replacing the blend of the two is virtually impossible. I even heard Jon say something like that in an old interview I watched not too long ago. When he was talking about the formation of the band, he said something like the way his voice and Richie's blended was magic; and that was what defined Bon Jovi's sound. I can't quote him exactly from memory; but that's close. It caught my attention because I see the word "magic" used a lot when people talk about what's missing from the band these days; but I was a little surprised to hear it from Jon, years before Richie left.

This is dead on. I want to find the Jon interview from 2001/2002 when recording Bounce demos they tried using a session drummer because Tico wasn't available and they eventually trashed it because it just didn't sound like them. Times have changed and it's kind of sad.

Yes, he was energetic , but that doesnÂ’t mean his playing was great. DonÂ’t get me wrong, IÂ’m not saying he was butchering the songs. Of course his guitar sound is the right one for Bon Jovi, because he created it, so if he was to come back, I reckon the bandÂ’s sound would gain from it. But I donÂ’t think that would make the shows great again, because as I said, he has been very sloppy for the last decade or so. By sloppy, I mean he wasnÂ’t adding anything new by playing the same licks over and over again, and even making a lot of mistakes. Take a look at his Any Other day outro solo from Lisbon 2011 and compare it with the O2 2007 one. In 2011, he was given the spotlight to improvise and let loose, but he couldnÂ’t, going back to the same lick and ending his solo. As for the vocals, of course his vocals were a big part of the bandÂ’s sound, but in 2013 his vocals were being drowned more and more into the mix, and Bobby was the one backing up Jon most of the time.

His playing was great on those shows, lots of people were commenting about how on form he was and his vocals were still very prominent. Bobby had started to do some of the higher stuff but Richie's voice was still at the forefront of the mix. The absence of his voice is very noticable now.

I don't know what it really means to "save" the live show but Richie was the lead guitarist and background vocalist in this band for 30 years. OF COURSE the live show would vastly improve with him playing and singing instead of these newbies trying to duplicate his guitar parts and sound. I mean, isn't that a given?