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letitrock 03-06-2003 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choclady
Quote:

Originally Posted by jess
I don't have time to speak to you :)

:cry: :cry: :cry:

:( :(

i have work to do today ... :( lots and lots of work... dinner first and then I'm stuck in this big library for a couple of hours, and then I'd best start writing it...

if anyone wants to help this is my question (and it's for the whole of Europe in the 19th century (up to 1914):

How effective were feminist movements in increasing the status of women?

choclady 03-06-2003 02:33 PM

Early communists believed the "woman question" was secondary to the revolution. Restructuring class relations would inevitably lead to the emancipation of women, and thus any separate focus on the issue was a waste of time and effort. Measures were passed from above, by the state, to ensure equality of women in the work place and in society. However, as Einhorn perceptively indicates, this legislation emancipated women as workers, and not as citizens. There was no emancipation of social roles; women were simply required to add to their existing burdens: in addition to wives and mothers, they were to become workers and active communists (the "triple burden"). Social structures and mentalities remained unchanged within the family, and the nuclear family was transmorgrified into the socialist family. Today, in reaction to this past, women who cannot reject the primary "job" of wife and mother, are only too happy (in many cases) to cast off the extraneous responsibilities "imposed" upon them by the previous regime. Thus many East European women desire today to leave employment and politics to the men, to divide responsibilities between the public sphere — capitalism and politics (male), and the private sphere — home and family (female).

There is also increasing identification between feminism and state socialism (as gender-equality laws were initially enacted in most of these countries by the communists), and of socialism as "emasculating" the male population. According to Einhorn, men and women felt forced out of their "natural" roles, into new (and foreign) areas of responsibility and action by state socialism. Pre-1989 legislation has been completely rejected, irrespective of any intrinsic merit. Instead, the appeal is to 19th century nationalism, to an idealized era when women were not yet citizens, and instead stayed home and "made babies for the nation." An era of exclusionary and ethnic citizenship, but a time when men and women could know, and feel secure in, their social roles.

Women's movements that do exist today are often explicitly anti-feminist. However there has been some mobilization, particularly in Poland and the former German Democratic Republic, over access to abortion. The opposition of the Polish Catholic Church and the Federal German Government has coalesced women around this issue. Einhorn believes that more attacks on women's citizenship rights in these countries are inevitable, but that when women feel their reproductive rights and employment opportunities to be truly personally threatened (especially in a period of economic difficulty), they will begin to fight to protect themselves as citizens

jovilaura_fi 03-06-2003 02:49 PM

:shock: at Choc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by letitrock
How effective were feminist movements in increasing the status of women?

very :D

letitrock 03-06-2003 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choclady
Early communists believed the "woman question" was secondary to the revolution. Restructuring class relations would inevitably lead to the emancipation of women, and thus any separate focus on the issue was a waste of time and effort. Measures were passed from above, by the state, to ensure equality of women in the work place and in society. However, as Einhorn perceptively indicates, this legislation emancipated women as workers, and not as citizens. There was no emancipation of social roles; women were simply required to add to their existing burdens: in addition to wives and mothers, they were to become workers and active communists (the "triple burden"). Social structures and mentalities remained unchanged within the family, and the nuclear family was transmorgrified into the socialist family. Today, in reaction to this past, women who cannot reject the primary "job" of wife and mother, are only too happy (in many cases) to cast off the extraneous responsibilities "imposed" upon them by the previous regime. Thus many East European women desire today to leave employment and politics to the men, to divide responsibilities between the public sphere — capitalism and politics (male), and the private sphere — home and family (female).

There is also increasing identification between feminism and state socialism (as gender-equality laws were initially enacted in most of these countries by the communists), and of socialism as "emasculating" the male population. According to Einhorn, men and women felt forced out of their "natural" roles, into new (and foreign) areas of responsibility and action by state socialism. Pre-1989 legislation has been completely rejected, irrespective of any intrinsic merit. Instead, the appeal is to 19th century nationalism, to an idealized era when women were not yet citizens, and instead stayed home and "made babies for the nation." An era of exclusionary and ethnic citizenship, but a time when men and women could know, and feel secure in, their social roles.

Women's movements that do exist today are often explicitly anti-feminist. However there has been some mobilization, particularly in Poland and the former German Democratic Republic, over access to abortion. The opposition of the Polish Catholic Church and the Federal German Government has coalesced women around this issue. Einhorn believes that more attacks on women's citizenship rights in these countries are inevitable, but that when women feel their reproductive rights and employment opportunities to be truly personally threatened (especially in a period of economic difficulty), they will begin to fight to protect themselves as citizens

Thanks Jana! :)

That's excellent. It's too late for my essay but I will try to squeeze some of it in as examples 'looking to the future'

Anyone else want to do anything? If everyone did a paragraph I could just cut and paste and get an early night... :D

Tom

jovilaura_fi 03-06-2003 10:49 PM

You know, Finland was the first country in Europe (and the second in the world, after New Zealand) to give women the right to vote. :D

Go Finland!!! :D

Besides. Our president is an atheist who has an adult child with a man she wasn't married to, and at the time of her election for President was "living in sin" with the man she is now married to (not the father of her child).... There's women's right movement for you :lol:

Mike 03-06-2003 10:55 PM

Dunno whats going on here, but I just wanna say that the burning of the bras movement - was a serious fire hazard :twisted:

Not that we were complaining at the time :wink:

letitrock 03-06-2003 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jovilaura_fi
You know, Finland was the first country in Europe (and the second in the world, after New Zealand) to give women the right to vote. :D

Go Finland!!! :D

Besides. Our president is an atheist who has an adult child with a man she wasn't married to, and at the time of her election for President was "living in sin" with the man she is now married to (not the father of her child).... There's women's right movement for you :lol:

Finland rocks! What year was it they were given the vote? Do you know why this was?

letitrock 03-06-2003 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike
Dunno whats going on here, but I just wanna say that the burning of the bras movement - was a serious fire hazard :twisted:

Not that we were complaining at the time :wink:

You got your dates wrong man! LOL If i was around at the time I wouldn't have been complaining no! :wink:

Mike 03-07-2003 01:08 AM

Yeah - Apparently it was i the 60's or something......

I bet the guys were lining both sides of the street :D

letitrock 03-07-2003 04:10 AM

Since this is my pointless thread

I've just finished my essay 2 AM ish - which is good for me... due in at 9 am tomorrow so I'm happy with that... means little sleep though and since the last 4 days have been like this i'm completely zombified

how's everyone elses days been?


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