[BJFan99]

Originally Posted by jovifan93

Yeah, and then he starts walking and immediately things get better. It's got to be at least 60% a mental problem...

It probably isn't. Everyone's voice comes out more naturally when there's no additional muscle tension - as an experienced karaoke singer I've noticed that when I'm singing a song like BOR or Always and take the mic out of the stand, my whole body immediately relaxes as I start walking around and the high notes somehow become much easier to hit. In Jon's case it probably wouldn't help much, as his voice is so damaged that the high register has simply disappeared, but at least there would be some visual distraction from his vocal struggles if he was moving around more and therefor adding some energy into his performances.

[steel_horse75]

Originally Posted by JackieBlue

It's so much more than the technical aspect of Richie's style of playing and his vocals that's missing, though God knows, that would be enough. I think Jon depended on Richie a lot more than people realize for sharing the load every show. Richie was his side man, his straight man - I can't think of the right term, but like the Gracie Allen to his George Burns minus the comedy element. He played off of Richie. It helped ease the load of carrying the whole show by himself. If nothing else, it gave him something to look at besides the front row, without turning his back on the audience. And he also knew that when (if) his voice gave out, Richie was there to pick up the slack, either taking over the vocals or distracting from them with the harmonies. He didn't even have to say anything, because Richie watched him like a hawk and he knew when he was struggling.

And no, even if they could resolve whatever went wrong, and Richie were to come back, it won't restore Jon's voice to what it was anymore than it would probably restore Richie's playing to what it was. But I think it might restore some of the confidence and, therefore, some of the showmanship that's missing. And the joy.

JMO

Totally Agree
Before everyone watched JBJ and RS
No ones bothered re Hugh, Daves up the back and so is Tico (the hero of the band)
But now its all on JBJ he is now the soul attention on the stage. Again, no ones interested in Shanks, Phil X, Hugh and the other 2 still remain at the back. But everyone does say - who the **** is that guy on the bongos

[Thinny]

Performances like that are heartbreaking to watch. I don't know why I keep doing it. I will then watch something from the 80's and 90's and that kinda makes me sad too, to to see how far he has fallen and how magnificent he was!

Also, I wish they'd give Dave the Richie vocal parts in that song again. It's too much of a struggle for Phil....

[BJFan99]

Originally Posted by bonjovi90

His voice is pretty much shot after decades of touring and singing songs that were basically always too high for him to do on a constant schedule. No doubt about that.
But the fact that he can't consistently sing with what is left and it going signifantly up and down from song to song within a show - that I blame on his mental state.

Jon used to be a perfectionist, but I think the thought of having to pull off these shows "alone" (in terms of being pretty much the sole focus on stage without Richie backing him) and the knowledge of his voice fading out around mid-2013 created some sort of anxiety disorder. With that I mean that once it became obvious that there wouldn't be a return of Richie, the fear of not being able to live up to one's own expectations manifested itself (willingly or not) in the back of his head. I was in Munich on the BWC tour and he had to pull out all stops as a performer and frontman to get the crowd going (which was basically dead and not responding after 6 or 7 songs). That night he really went up to 130% or more and I've never seen him working harder on stage. Doing that for one show or one leg is one thing - for the remainder of a tour or career a different animal.
His performance took a huge dip between Europe and the US summer leg in 2013. Up until then, there were constant rumours (even by Richie IIRC) of a return somewhere in Europe, I think Hyde Park had been mentioned as a possibility. Whatever negotiations may have gone on behind the scenes, by the time they returned to the US I think it was clear to the band that Richie wasn't gonna come back.
And thinking about it - Hyde Park (when Phil started LH instead of BTBMB or the other way around) was the last real stink eye I can remember. From then on all that perfectionist attitute started to go out the window as well.

While I don't think Jon's vocal inconsistency is a result of psychological issues (not for the most part anyway), it's indeed scary how fast his vocals deteriorated from roughly mid-July 2013 onwards. In my opinion, this was the last truly GREAT vocal performance Jon ever delivered:

https://youtu.be/VNtLjw1DKsM

And here's the same song just five months later:

https://youtu.be/YphfNmUWIWw

I can't think of any other singer who has declined so much within such a short time. I strongly believe this was a case very similar to the over-exhaustion of the Slippery tour, but this time all the additional strain and damage Jon had already caused his vocal cords during the past 25 years hit him IN ADDITION TO him pushing his voice even further in late '13 (remember how deliberately he was trying to sing songs like In These Arms and Always night after night back in October-November, although his voice was already shot to pieces by then):

https://youtu.be/vePaMPz-4uo

https://youtu.be/1ciE7sfZ8tY

As a conclusion, I think he simply beat his already worn-out vocal cords to death.

[steel_horse75]

Originally Posted by Thinny

Performances like that are heartbreaking to watch. I don't know why I keep doing it. I will then watch something from the 80's and 90's and that kinda makes me sad too, to to see how far he has fallen and how magnificent he was!

Also, I wish they'd give Dave the Richie vocal parts in that song again. It's too much of a struggle for Phil....

Phils a good axe player but he has no voice - well one that suits BonJovi

[jovifan93]

Originally Posted by BJFan99

While I don't think Jon's vocal inconsistency is a result of psychological issues (not for the most part anyway), it's indeed scary how fast his vocals deteriorated from roughly mid-July 2013 onwards. In my opinion, this was the last truly GREAT vocal performance Jon ever delivered:

https://youtu.be/VNtLjw1DKsM

And here's the same song just five months later:

https://youtu.be/YphfNmUWIWw

But take a look at that London video at 1:55 onwards. You already see today's Jon, just not as extreme. So it seems more like a steady decline after all, if a steep one

Look at 2010, it was so effortless back then, that one has to ask the question what did happen between 2010/11 and 2013? He also looks much older and/or unhealthy in 2013 IMO...

Bon Jovi These Days London O2 Arena 20th June...

BJFan99,
For some people something small can take several years to get cured from mentally.

I wonder if it is not only about Richie but also about other stuff in terms of the music.

[Supersonic]

Aloha !

Originally Posted by BJFan99

as an experienced karaoke singer

What the **** is an experienced karaoke singer?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

[YOVANAfromPeru]

Originally Posted by Supersonic

Aloha !



What the **** is an experienced karaoke singer?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

This!
BJFan99: WORKING MEEEYYYEEEYYYEEHEN...

[BJFan99]

Originally Posted by Supersonic

Aloha !



What the **** is an experienced karaoke singer?

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

I meant that I have lots of experience singing Bon Jovi songs on karaoke, and I really have noticed that once I start moving around while singing, my voice immediately comes out easier and my range kinda "opens up" a bit more. Like Jon, I used to have the nasty habit of staying rooted to one spot and gripping the mic stand to make it easier for me to hit the notes (as I've been struggling like hell with my range because of puberty), but nowadays it really seems like it's easier when I'm not doing so.

I'm no vocal expert (as you seem to be), but this is how I feel it.