[YOVANAfromPeru]

Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru

This time I have some proof >_<

another proof
THINFS book:

[BJFan99]

Originally Posted by YOVANAfromPeru

another proof
THINFS book:

Man... now it feels even sadder that Jon can't sing anymore. Not even a professional vocal coach can help him.

The best vocal performances of the THINFS tour in terms of consistency were probably BOR in Buenos Aires and Porto Alegre, Saturday Night in Sao Paulo and These Days in Jersey - and none of them came anywhere close to any pre-mid-2013 version of those same songs (well, maybe BOR was closer to early '13). It's heartbreaking how much more quality vocals we used to get up until Hyde Park '13, and how suddenly Jon dropped off afterwards...

Katie Agresta is pretty good at what she does from what I have read. In London 2010 Dry County (Video with blue shirt and black pants) I can see how Jon does pretty correct technique compared to like 80's and 90's (Not fully correct in 90's from what i have seen).

[kenobi_on_a_prayer]

Jon had Katie Agresta with him in 2008 and we saw good things come out of that.

He didn't seem to be working with any particular vocal coach in 2013, but if I recall correctly, he started requesting one in each city as part of his rider on the BWC tour, so presumably he knew things were going wrong then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM6S...ature=youtu.be

At 27:18 Jon in '93 said before the concert about someone that helps him sing really well.

And as I heard from someone long time ago here. They said Jon got vocal exercises for vocal warm-down to do after concert.

[YOVANAfromPeru]

A reminder...
JBJ (WWWB book): “Before every show, I warm up my vocal chords. But after the show, I cool down. Every night. Twenty years. Simple as that.
Around 1990, I was having a lot of problems with my voice. Little Steven said, “Katie Agresta.” I called Katie and she asked me if I warmed down, and I said I’d never heard of such a thing. Then she asked me, “If you ran a marathon, would you go right to bed or would you walk it off?” I said, “You have my undivided attention.”
For years, I’d visit her studio to sing, listen, learn. I’d bring Katie on the road whenever I felt beat up. I’ve relied on a cassette tape of her warm-down exercises from the day I met her. It’s a religion. I take it with me everywhere. Ninety-nine percent of the time I won’t go home from a show without it.”

Dana Wood (2009 “Singing Sensation” W Magazine article): Of course, not every ailing patient bends so easily to Kessler’s will. “Some A-list rock stars think they’re not human,” he says, and they trot out onstage regardless of the shape they’re in. “If I get the feeling that they’re not going to cooperate—and it’s not just canceling a show; it can be an adjustment in their behavior like staying silent for three days—I make it clear that they’re taking a risk. And I’ve never had someone blatantly disregard my wishes.”
Except for Jon Bon Jovi, that is. “Forget about shows—he’s told me I wasn’t going to do entire tours,” says the rocker, a patient for 20-plus years. “There were tours when he’s said, ‘Listen, [your voice] is shot. I don’t think you’re gonna make it.’ And not only did I make it, but I got stronger. And a lot of that has to do with his nurturing. He’s my doctor, shrink and friend. And the only one I trust with my moneymaker.” (Scott Kessler M.D., Voice Doctor)

[efpg0708]

Originally Posted by Walleris

It can't be a great commercial for a vocal coach to have Jon represent your services.

I wonder if she was working with him before 2013. If that's the case, she should not have kept her job. It's one thing to not be able to sing like you used to in your 20s. It's another to suddenly and completely lose your voice in your early 50s.

She has nothing to do with Jon loosing his voice again. Jon's voice has deteriorated after being overused for years and years. It's a physical issue which unfortunately has passed the point of no return.

[Walleris]

Originally Posted by efpg0708

She has nothing to do with Jon loosing his voice again. Jon's voice has deteriorated after being overused for years and years. It's a physical issue which unfortunately has passed the point of no return.

In my mind, a vocal coach should advise a singer on how to use his voice not to "overuse it" and give specific tips on how to maintain it for as long as possible. Has Jon really "overused" his voice more than Bono, Bryan Adams, Steven Tyler, Roger Daltrey and many others? I don't know, but my guess is no. Many voices has declined over decades of singing (which is OK), but Jon fell of a cliff over the course of MONTHS!

My theory (and nobody has disputed it yet) is that he either ignored it and/or got comfortable with his 'renaissance' in 2008 and stopped using the coach until it started going to shit mid-tour in 2013. I think the way he used his voice in this 5 year period contributed greatly and that was because Jon may not have had a vocal coach by his side. Either way, it's only his stupidity to blame.

Either way, I wouldn't advertise myself as a vocal coach by boasting Jon as my student

[Supersonic]

Aloha !

Originally Posted by Walleris

Has Jon really "overused" his voice more than Bono, Bryan Adams, Steven Tyler, Roger Daltrey and many others? I don't know, but my guess is no.

My guess is yes. With every world tour you can hear a decline in Jon's voice. He starts weak, gets stronger after about 20 shows, grows confidence and overdoes it, and halfway through the tour a decline sets in. It's been like this for over 20 years now. If your voice is going through a decline it's a clear sign either the amount of shows isn't doing you any favors or the set you're doing doesn't work for your voice.

Again to come up with another car analogy, I can drive my old Mercedes to the max every day and have it fixed every few months but eventually the engine will break down because I'm not using it the way it's meant to be used. Jon can have all the vocal warm ups and downs he wants, it's what he does in between that's causing the damage. And the artists you mention all have or had serious vocal problems. They've just dealt with it differently.

Salaam Aleikum,
Sebastiaan

Overuse your voice and don't have enough time to recover your vocal cords.
Eventually the irritation or strain builds up and turns into vocal damage and then the vocal damage builds up which could cause anything from loss of range to worst cases the nodules, polyps, etc.
1987 could be a possible example.

Basically how touring and vocal cords can be.
Jon's voice has deepened and lowered for those reasons and also probably aging.

Vocal warmups are mostly for muscle memory to be able to enter mixed voice, whatever.
Vocal warmups are almost no different from the vocal downwarm's or vocal exercises.

I wonder what Jon told his vocal teacher at the end of 2003..
Vocal coach probably be like "You complain about your voice going bad and do everything you can but then do the worst stuff for your voice knowingly and complain to me."