[JordanRose]

Surprised to find not one topic dedicated to Amen since BBC2.

I thought all the new songs played were an absolute joke, particularly the utterly dreadful lyrics of Water and What About Now; that is with the exception of Amen.

Although it's so clearly Jon trying to write Hallelujah because he loves the cheap pop he gets from holding notes at the top of his range and knows that he can't do Hallelujah at every show forever, I actually think it works.

The not-so-subtle innuendo that he's copying from Cohen's song actually works; my only reservation is the clumsy and jarring use of the word 'carpet' which spoils the scene. He could have said 'floor' and it would have flowed and worked much better.

But that little bridge:

I laid down in her garden
Naked on her floor
Windows up, the curtains blowing
She don't lock the door

that leads into his first big Amen and the lush strings.....I close my eyes and i'm actually right friggin there and it's exhilarating. I actually buy it, I believe he means it and it's beautiful and it's somewhat cynical origin can't change that.

It's been a long, long time since I really believed anything new he wrote or sang and I can honestly say this is my favourite JBJ song since Something To Believe In.

I rarely visit the board as i'm a much bigger fan of Axl Rose, Prince, Bruce, Dylan and many others but Jon/Richie have several songs in my top 20 of all time including Santa Fe and Something To Believe In although nothing, unsurprisingly, from Crush onwards so i'll always come back to see if they can do it for me again.

I just spent about 8 hours reading the post history of Beaky whose feelings on the band most echo my own. I'm really sad that Richie is still capable of writing beautiful, personal, real songs like Seven years and Get So High yet Jon would rather chase fads than use that talent in his band.

But i'll take Amen.

[JordanRose]

By the way, Mr. Beaky, if you see this, i'd like to get in touch but i'm unable to PM/email you. I've literally saved nearly all of your posts to my private board and would love to chew the shit about Jovi some.

[Captmorgs]

I like Amen. A lot. Liked it the first time I heard it, and really enjoyed it at my show in Nashville. And I think the studio version soars. But this is a minority opinion on this board.

[Bounce7800]

I do actually like Amen on the record more than I expected to, and I certainly wouldn't mind hearing it live. Once. But at least it gets rid of Hallelujah

[RonJovi]

I'm enjoying it much more than I thought I would. It is him trying to rewrite the Cohen song but it works for me.

Interesting thoughts on the songwriting too. It's a funny one because when Jon writes alone, I find some of his best, less cliched lyrics are the result. Really enjoy Not Running Anymore and The Fighter for example. When Richie writes without Jon, he's written some really powerful stuff (Only Get So High being the best example).

Yet, when they write together or for the band nowadays, we often get a lot of rubbish and cliche.

[IML88]

Like it too, the vocals are my only qualm with it.

Although I guess he sings it like he sings Hallelujah for a reason.

[DevilsSon]

Originally Posted by RonJovi

I'm enjoying it much more than I thought I would. It is him trying to rewrite the Cohen song but it works for me.

Interesting thoughts on the songwriting too. It's a funny one because when Jon writes alone, I find some of his best, less cliched lyrics are the result. Really enjoy Not Running Anymore and The Fighter for example. When Richie writes without Jon, he's written some really powerful stuff (Only Get So High being the best example).

Yet, when they write together or for the band nowadays, we often get a lot of rubbish and cliche.

Completely agree. The solo songs are actually the best songs on the record. That's because they are not Bon Jovi. When Bon Jovi try to be Bon Jovi, that's when they are at their worst. I think they lost every inspiration as a band/ song-write duo. Obviously, they still are talented musicians and songwriters. But if they work together to manufacture something that the world expects from them - well - then that's exactly what we will get. Manufactured pop-anthems, that are safe and uninspiring.

The first and foremost quality of a song or a live performance (yes, ahead of blistering guitar solos and crystal-clear vocals) is SINCERITY. If I had to summarise my problem with the band in one line -it's the lack of it. Live and on record most of what they do is feed the machine. Yet when the occasional moments happen when they use music to express what they genuinely feel, they still do a good job. Amen is the proof for that.

[RonJovi]

Originally Posted by DevilsSon

Completely agree. The solo songs are actually the best songs on the record. That's because they are not Bon Jovi. When Bon Jovi try to be Bon Jovi, that's when they are at their worst. I think they lost every inspiration as a band/ song-write duo. Obviously, they still are talented musicians and songwriters. But if they work together to manufacture something that the world expects from them - well - then that's exactly what we will get. Manufactured pop-anthems, that are safe and uninspiring.

The first and foremost quality of a song or a live performance (yes, ahead of blistering guitar solos and crystal-clear vocals) is SINCERITY. If I had to summarise my problem with the band in one line -it's the lack of it. Live and on record most of what they do is feed the machine. Yet when the occasional moments happen when they use music to express what they genuinely feel, they still do a good job. Amen is the proof for that.

True, I think when you look at insincere hit-chasing, Everyday and We Weren't Born to Follow are the two worst offenders. I can't imagine either Jon or Richie having those songs on a solo album. Yet they produced them for a Bon Jovi album. Why?

I've no problem with optimism and Jon is clearly a very positive person. That's great. But even the strongest optimist knows about hardship and doubt and Jon, being as travelled as he is, knows it very well. That's why I don't get these one-dimesional "me against the world and I'll win if I just believe" songs.

[DryCounty]

Jon confirms that Amen was his attempt to re-write Hallelujah.

http://open.spotify.com/track/7tD8h8JDY0StoimKq7w61l

[JordanRose]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, I pretty much agree with everyone above!

The way he talks about Amen being 'an homage' to Cohen's song is fascinating. He says he used to sing Hallelujah a lot but now everyone's doing it so he doesn't anymore. Hallelujah was already one of the most covered songs ever when Jon started doing it in 2007 and he was a lot more honest about it on that 2007 MTV show where he took the piss out of himself for seeing Jeff Buckley do it and not knowing who Cohen was at the time.

He says he was in 'that poetical frame of mind when we wrote it'. I always wonder if he can hear himself say stuff like this cuz it just sounds so daft and i'm sure I don't need to explain the multiple reasons why.

I think the poor guy just has such a massive chip on his shoulder for being critically derided for so long that he overcompensates in putting himself over.

It's just kinda funny because Cohen was an actual poet who made no money so he decided to put his words to music. But even Dylan scoffs and says 'my songs aren't poems, that's a different art form altogether' whilst Jon seems to think he's a proper little poet