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In light of Songs of Experience

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Old 12-07-2017, 11:49 PM
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Default In light of Songs of Experience

I know this is a stretch, especially because you're all probably sick of the Bon Jovi vs. U2 comparisons. It's like comparing apples and oranges, I get it. But can we put that to the side for a bit, and constructively talk about them both, as they are of similar caliber as far as the world stage goes.


U2 have released 2 bad back to back albums in the past 10 years. No Line on the Horizon and Songs of Innocence, while having moments of goodness, (ie. Moment of Surrender or Raised by Wolves) were not that good.

Bon Jovi have released 2 really bad albums back to back. (What About Now & This House is Not For Sale). I get some people really like the latter, but for everyone else, it's pretty bad. Even look at these articles:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/bon-j...worst-to-best/ (this is the one I feel actually understands Bon Jovi. These Days is ranked at number 1, but What About Now and THINFS is ranked at 15 and 14 respectively.)

or even this article that lists them at 12 and 14.

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-bon...list/reference

I hate that I have to include these, but of course the inevitable chants of "THINFS is really good and you're wrong" will come, and I'm really just not here to argue about that.


Continuing on, I have listened to the new U2 album a dozen times and I fell in love with it. Like Bon Jovi, I had lost faith in new U2 material. I still will see them live, am still interested in how they sound, and will still follow them. However, I thought the day of new good material was at its end. Then they released Songs of Experience, and I was blown away. Not only was the sound and production incredibly modern, but it still sounded like U2.

The bridge of "The Little Things That Give You Away" literally made me cry the first time I listened to it. I really believed the lyrics, and I felt that Bono's voice singing about his mortality really meant it. I found my voice in that song too. Not only that, but it was produced SO WELL. Yes, there are probably 2 keyboards and 4 or 5 layered guitars, but it worked so incredibly well. Each note is heard, and nothing distracted from each other.

However, this is a Bon Jovi topic, and I do not want to distract from that. The last time I felt that kind of emotion from a new Bon Jovi song was when I first heard Any Other Day from the Lost Highway album. While some people will never like that album because of the genre, it still holds a place in my heart because despite the genre, they wrote some damn good songs.

Songs of Experience is being received incredibly well everywhere. People love it. And not just the typical Rolling Stone Magazine fanboys who gush over everything U2 piss on. My friends love it. I posted a facebook status about it, and I'm having conversations with people my age and younger who are listening to a U2 album in its entirety for the first time and actually liking it. I have a friend who hasn't even listened to the Joshua Tree that claimed to me today that this was her favorite album of this entire year.

You don't have to like Songs of Experience. And you can even love This House is Not For Sale. My question is this: Do you think Bon Jovi have the capabilities of releasing content that a millennial will actually like, given no prior context? The fact of the matter is that there is relevancy from this new U2 project, but whether you like it or not, the world just didn't care about THINFS. And I think Jon knows that, too. Do you think it's possible to release an album that actually matters? Or that actually sounds good and is produced well? Or is Bon Jovi destined to be a band that is known for nothing past Make A Memory?
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:01 AM
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I kind of see where you're coming from but a lot of it coming across as "Will Bon Jovi release an album that you like as much as I like this album". A quick search on reviews of the U2 album have gotten a lot of negative results and I get that music is subjective but if we're posting bad reviews of Bon Jovi albums, good ones exist too and ditto for U2.

If this makes the impact you're saying it will on millennials, great but how are we gauging this? You're using hyperbolic statements to lift up one band and put down another.

Pitchfork: 5.3
Consequence of Sound: C+
NME: 2 out of 5 stars

And those are just the first 3 that came up in a row. It sounds to me you really like this album and that's awesome but neither U2 or Bon Jovi will probably make much of a dent on the music industry again without it sounding forced or tired. I'm hoping this opens up a discussion and doesn't come across as "U2 sucks". I'm looking forward to checking the album out but the facts you're giving are entirely subjective.
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:36 AM
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My faith in Bon Jovi was completely restored with Burning Bridges and This House. It was The Circle and WAN that made me feel like the writing was headed down a bad pathway. But I was not going to give up on a band I have loved most of my life.

I appreciate how you took the time to express your feelings in the comparison. I think you should just have faith.

I have a closer situation to what you’re describing with Melissa Etheridge. I love her albums or I don’t. I still follow her career because I know she is capable of great writing. Some is to my taste and some is not. But the next album might be amazing. I think artists can chase rabbits in terms of style or content. They do best when they get back to what is real for them. To me, that showed well in THINFS because it was personal again, not social commentary. I’m not trying to convince you to like the last CD, just sharing perspectives on what made me feel like it was real again.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Becky View Post
My faith in Bon Jovi was completely restored with Burning Bridges and This House. It was The Circle and WAN that made me feel like the writing was headed down a bad pathway. But I was not going to give up on a band I have loved most of my life.
I listened to TC today and it's a great album...
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:46 AM
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That's exactly it. We'll love albums more than others will and it's completely up the listener to feel a connection. No one in this thread is right or wrong on how they feel.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:43 AM
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I feel like the OP is built on a premise that THINFS is crap while Songs of Experience is either this acclaimed masterpiece or very relevant in mainstream; both of which are factually false. They're both seen as "OK" by most.

The reception to SOE has not been overwhelming by any means. Other than your usual rainbow-farting from the RS magazine (which they do for every release from Bob Dylan/Bruce Springsteen/U2/Rolling Stone and a few other "selections", regardless if it's any good), it has been quite average (63 aggregate on Metacritic vs. 59 for THINFS), and I've read/heard several takes how this SOE+SOI saga established U2 as a legacy act.

Personally, it has some good spots (The Little Things That Give You Away definitely being one of them; U2's best song in years), and it's still very new, but my initial impression was actually stronger on Songs of Innocence. It feels longer than it actually is and definitely suffers from the absence of punchy rockers like Volcano or Raised By Wolves.

The reception to THINFS was not great in mainstream media either, but definitely positive among the fanbase (something that Panda himself somewhat acknowledged, but I feel has refused to take seriously, because he personally doesn't like it). Perhaps, hardcore U2 fans like the new album too, I'm not enough of a fan to be spending time at their forums to know this.

Also, I'm not sure what Panda is trying to achieve with posting that Ultimate Classick Rock ranking of Bon Jovi albums. Sure, the recent output ranks low, perhaps deservedly so. But if we have the same kind of article on U2 in about a year from now (once the novelty of SOE wears off), their last 3 records will surely rank very low on their discography too. So once again, apples and oranges.

My point is that U2 are roughly in the same boat as Bon Jovi these days, other than some left-over critics that still love them and slightly more commercial appeal due to less over-saturation in the last 10 years which Jon is definitely guilty of. If we were to try an name a peer that puts out new music that is much better received and is less of a legacy/nostalgia act, Metallica is a much better example - their last record was as successful as an artist of that age group can expect.

Last edited by Walleris; 12-08-2017 at 05:48 AM..
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:41 AM
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Bon Jovi play a style of music where they can't really win. If they're playing to the strengths of their experience and Jon's voice, it's gonna be super mellow, which won't please the fanbase who want arena ready choruses and immediate energy. If they write these songs, they will be compared to their greatest hits and the music press will label them a band that doesn't ever change. If they try new stuff (which they did on THINFS, IMO) they will have a sound that's inspired by artists and trends that will never pick up on them.

The KTF-era sound would have worked for an older band, a little grittier, a little more bluesy. As it is, they try to write fun pop songs while trying to keep it fresh. I can respect that, but it won't win over critics. U2 have a much easier time being respectable given they have been about "lowkey emotions" for many albums now; very "moody" band if you will. That works better with age and more subtley delivery, but it's not what BJ were ever about.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:39 PM
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I disagree with most of what you all have to say, obviously.


I'm not trying to say this as a bragging point, but I have a lot of friends, and a lot of connections, a lot of which are local musicians, etc. People are talking about the U2 album. I have yet to hear of people talking about Bon Jovi. Maybe that's a coincidence. But I don't think so. I think people actually give a shit about U2, and they're becoming quite relevant.

For example,

Jonathan Fenn
Yesterday at 15:14 ·
All That You Can't Leave Behind is better than Joshua Tree. And Songs of Innocence is better than both of them, though less nostalgic I guess. Songs of Experience is the best of them all, but probably doesn't include any of their top 5 or 6 songs.
Come at me bro.

Then there's loads of comments talking about it, and arguing which U2 album is better, etc.

Or this facebook post?

Madeline Wilfley
December 1 at 10:14 ·
U2's best album of the last decade, maybe of their last 30 years. Check out Songs of Experience.

I know these people are nobodies to you, and they will be because they're just friends. But they are both people that take music quite seriously, and are also both younger than me. All this is to say that U2 gets talked about, and Bon Jovi does not.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but the point of bringing up the reviews of the Bon Jovi album was to deter from what the actual conversation is about: Can Bon Jovi be as relevant as U2? I went to the Joshua Tree tour in Vancouver. There were just as many young people as older. This is not the case with Bon Jovi.

U2 is not in the same boat as Bon Jovi, and I'm wondering if it's possible for Bon Jovi to rise up and be talked about like Songs of Experience Is. I have no idea why, but somehow U2 stayed relevant, and Bon Jovi did not. And I have no idea why.
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:38 AM
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To me the argument just isn't valid because you're saying your friends like the album, so it's resonating, when our friends are saying the same thing about THINFS, which you're disregarding. It's the same thing from a different fanbase and it boils down to you not thinking current Bon Jovi is worth it.

I think you're right that there's less of a stigma with U2. They've always come across as cooler then Bon Jovi and critically liked a hell of a lot more. I just don't think they're as relevant to today's youth as you do and we'd need more then comparing Facebook feeds to know what kind of connection they're making with that age group. Nostalgia is a hell of a thing and I think both bands suffer/make lots of money because of it.
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi View Post
To me the argument just isn't valid because you're saying your friends like the album, so it's resonating, when our friends are saying the same thing about THINFS, which you're disregarding. It's the same thing from a different fanbase and it boils down to you not thinking current Bon Jovi is worth it.t.
Your friends who aren't diehard Bon Jovi fans have said good things about thinfs? Because I haven't been reading that at all. It's mostly an album that the diehard community enjoy, and I haven't seen it leave that. I have yet to even hear testimony on this forum of someone's friend liking this album? But I could be missing that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_jovi View Post

I think you're right that there's less of a stigma with U2. They've always come across as cooler then Bon Jovi and critically liked a hell of a lot more. I just don't think they're as relevant to today's youth as you do and we'd need more then comparing Facebook feeds to know what kind of connection they're making with that age group. Nostalgia is a hell of a thing and I think both bands suffer/make lots of money because of it.

Okay what about when I go to a U2 show and there are just as many older fans as there are new fans around my age or even younger? I've seen them five times in three different cities and this has always been the case.
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