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Why can't they just give us proper live recordings?

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  #1  
Old 03-18-2020, 12:19 PM
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Default Why can't they just give us proper live recordings?

I honestly don't get it - what's the point behind this? On the one hand, they are too lazy to really take stuff out of their vaults that would be new and welcomed by the fans, on the other hand they (Obie?) invest a lot of time in editing together bogus live versions...

Just to clarifiy:
Dry County (B-side of the single / Milton Keynes 1993):
Recently, I found an audio tape of night 2 from that gig. Night 1 had been broadcasted by the BBC and they didn't play Dry County. So we all assumed that it must've simply been taken from night 2 like stated on the single. The version of night 2 simply has nothing to do with that live release. No speech is the same, I'm not even sure a verse was taken from that show. It either was spliced together from however many multiple performances or recorded in the studio (at least the speeches) and given away as "live". Also David Bryan's keyboard part after the solo is completely different to what I think he ever played live.

In And Out Of Love (Bonus Edition 2010):

The singing and verses are taken from (presumably) Tokyo 1985, the guitar / drum solos are taken from 1987 and spliced in there.

Lay Your Hands On Me (Bonus Track 2001?):
I haven't heard that one, but I'm very sure someone here mentioned that it had the 1996 intro and then cut to the Toronto 2000 performance...

Born To Be My Baby (Bonus Edition 2010):
The first part up until middle of the guitar solo is taken from Glasgow 1988 (Night 1) and then it actually cuts to either a recording of Night 2 or some other show of that period.


I mean, honestly, why do that when you have a vault full of excellent performances? Do other bands do the same and it's a common thing that I'm not aware of?

Sorry, just felt like going into a rant about this...
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Old 03-18-2020, 04:36 PM
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Great post, I don't get it either.

For almost 2 decades they were one of the best live bands on the planet.
But they never managed to release an appropiate live album or DVD.
All live CDs and DVD were horribly cut together and missed the power of their live performances.
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Old 03-18-2020, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi90 View Post
I honestly don't get it - what's the point behind this? On the one hand, they are too lazy to really take stuff out of their vaults that would be new and welcomed by the fans, on the other hand they (Obie?) invest a lot of time in editing together bogus live versions...

Just to clarifiy:
Dry County (B-side of the single / Milton Keynes 1993):
Recently, I found an audio tape of night 2 from that gig. Night 1 had been broadcasted by the BBC and they didn't play Dry County. So we all assumed that it must've simply been taken from night 2 like stated on the single. The version of night 2 simply has nothing to do with that live release. No speech is the same, I'm not even sure a verse was taken from that show. It either was spliced together from however many multiple performances or recorded in the studio (at least the speeches) and given away as "live". Also David Bryan's keyboard part after the solo is completely different to what I think he ever played live.

In And Out Of Love (Bonus Edition 2010):

The singing and verses are taken from (presumably) Tokyo 1985, the guitar / drum solos are taken from 1987 and spliced in there.

Lay Your Hands On Me (Bonus Track 2001?):
I haven't heard that one, but I'm very sure someone here mentioned that it had the 1996 intro and then cut to the Toronto 2000 performance...

Born To Be My Baby (Bonus Edition 2010):
The first part up until middle of the guitar solo is taken from Glasgow 1988 (Night 1) and then it actually cuts to either a recording of Night 2 or some other show of that period.


I mean, honestly, why do that when you have a vault full of excellent performances? Do other bands do the same and it's a common thing that I'm not aware of?

Sorry, just felt like going into a rant about this...
You read my mind. Your Get Back / Traveling Band post gave me that same thought. The world's greatest rock band who built their reputation as such, never gave us a balls out real release.

Springsteen always takes care of his fans. Look at his discography. It's insane. I'm sure all his CDs aren't flying off the shelves like they once did either but he loves music and does it all for the fans... which in turn keeps them loyal and happy.... which in turn again, keeps him successful and legendary.

Jon's too caught up in the final numbers, who's getting a cut of what, and being nostalgic. That's why his hair is white. Sometimes you have to give to get. Like if he didn't pay for Its My Life, he might not have obtained the status where he is at today. Say It Ain't So would have flopped, Crush would have been finished, and Jon might have been dropped.

Unless there is some royalty restrictions (which I doubt), there is no reason they should hoard all those gems.

Springsteen has a simple concept. Tour and release everything regardless. He doesn't care about the numbers, chart hits, over exposure or being nostalgic. And through all that, he's beyond legendary and has more money then he'll ever spend.

Jon had a very profitable and successful decade when he was forced to release material every year. And then on top of it, he has a piss poor attitude when in comes to promoting it all like the NJ Re-release.

Thank goodness for bootlegs and fans like yourself who can restore some of those old performances back to a pleasurable listen.

Maybe Jon is just saving it all for his retirement when his voice is completely shot out for good.

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Old 03-18-2020, 07:22 PM
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Aloha !

I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it.

It's because Jon doesn't care about previous achievements other than saying "I've done that, now give me credibility for it". Jon's all about telling everyone he's sold 100.000.000 records but then skips at least 40% of that catalog every time he goes on stage. I also think that whoever is behind selections for live stuff has no clue what songs were in the vault and when they were recorded. The official list for when songs on the box set were recorded was wrong which kind of shows how much interest and knowledge they've got about their own career. No self-respecting artist would put Livin' On A Prayer from Central Park on a remaster from Slippery and then pretend it's from the same era. And if Obie had a bit of sense he'd have picked something else than This Ain't A Love Song from Bremen for These Days. There was just no point in buying all these special editions again while I'd have bought them in a heartbeat if a second disc with unreleased live stuff from the same era the album was ncluded.

And then there's the costs. Almost everything the band has released as live recordings was recorded by some other party (TV and/or radio broadcasts). From my recollection only some stuff from Toronto 2000 was recorded for a possible live release. I honestly just don't think their archive is all that. Hiring someone to sort that out costs money. Hiring someone to mix it properly costs money so we're stuck with the family friend Obie who has this weird fascination to cut intro's, outro's and improvisations out of a song. I'll Sleep When I'm Dead from Wembley's length is originally about 10 minutes long yet when they released it as a b-side on one of the singles 3 minutes were cut off. One of the cover songs vanished, the intro was shortened, the improvs in the middle were cut and the outro had a fade out as the original song merged into Bad Medicine. Besides, even if he'd keep it all in place it's all mixed to death anyway. There's audience recordings which capture a live feel better than anything the band has released.

If the band really has all the seperate tracks in the vault (seperate guitars/keyboards/drums/vocals) surely someone ought to be able to do a better job than whatever was released as official live stuff from the last tour. The BBC broadcast of 2011 showed a perfect live mix is possible. It just needs someone other than whoever they hire for this. But professionals cost money and why spend money on something from the past that'll eventually only show your shortcomings in the present?

So yeah, like most decisions it comes down to money and ego. Back in 2001 many die hards voiced their disappointment after the release of One Wild Night 2001 was released and Obie got frustrated and told Jovitalk to shut up about it. This band doesn't welcome criticism because it'd mean they're wrong. And we all know Jon is never wrong and neither are his yes-man.

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Old 03-18-2020, 07:50 PM
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after all these years jon should really cahnge his perspective on the matter...for gods sake they are at their sixties, they had almost 4 decades on the spotlight, trying to stay relevant by not accepting your status in the music business makes no sense...
i belive sooner or later jon will finally realise its pointless to push this machine without richie and without accepting you became a nostalgia act...he can try to improve his voice and deliver sth truly nice but he cant stay on the same road for too long..
the cost for editing mixing and mastering 4-5 concerts for the bj standards is really low...they wont have a profit ok but paying two technicians etc for 3-4 months is peanuts for jon...
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Old 03-19-2020, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos greece View Post
the cost for editing mixing and mastering 4-5 concerts for the bj standards is really low...they wont have a profit ok but paying two technicians etc for 3-4 months is peanuts for jon...
The sad part is that it wouldn't take anywhere near that long to make a mix; a professional could mix a whole show in 2 days easily.

I suspect that they do desk recordings of all the shows, but not multitracks specifically. That would certainly explain the variations in quality of the THINFS shows they did release, and the lack of archive material and the constant re-use of TV and radio broadcast stuff. Or it might just be cheaper and easier.

That said, I'm sure some shows have been recorded for potential release. Seb referred to TAALS on the special edition which was a bit of a surprise at least, and I personally enjoyed it. No reason they couldn't release the whole show.
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Old 03-20-2020, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nige View Post
The sad part is that it wouldn't take anywhere near that long to make a mix; a professional could mix a whole show in 2 days easily.

I suspect that they do desk recordings of all the shows, but not multitracks specifically. That would certainly explain the variations in quality of the THINFS shows they did release, and the lack of archive material and the constant re-use of TV and radio broadcast stuff. Or it might just be cheaper and easier.

That said, I'm sure some shows have been recorded for potential release. Seb referred to TAALS on the special edition which was a bit of a surprise at least, and I personally enjoyed it. No reason they couldn't release the whole show.
Seb referred to TAALS from Bremen 95 because that show was broadcasted live on the radio and there are many many bootlegs of the full show.
If they released a TAALS live version on that 2010 special edition,at leats they should have included a non released version.
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Old 03-20-2020, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Xavi View Post
Seb referred to TAALS from Bremen 95 because that show was broadcasted live on the radio and there are many many bootlegs of the full show.
If they released a TAALS live version on that 2010 special edition,at leats they should have included a non released version.
Doesn't Jon speak Spanish during TAALS? I assumed it was from a Spanish show from that, but could be wrong.
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:06 PM
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Doesn't Jon speak Spanish during TAALS? I assumed it was from a Spanish show from that, but could be wrong.
He speaks Italian during Diamond Ring (also on the special edition) and that was from Milan 1995. TAALS was from Bremen, I dubbed the special edition recording to the video bootleg last year:
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Old 03-20-2020, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bonjovi90 View Post
He speaks Italian during Diamond Ring (also on the special edition) and that was from Milan 1995. TAALS was from Bremen, I dubbed the special edition recording to the video bootleg last year:
Bon Jovi | This Ain't A Love Song | Bremen 1995 - YouTube
Ah - it was Diamond Ring I was thinking of then, not TAALS. No reason they couldn't release Milan in that case.
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