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  #41  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:22 PM
WhamATC
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Gregsynth and my response combined together would be very good

Proper vocal cord closure can also lead to a clean voice without rasp which is probably the case in 95/96, smoking was probably more with range to do.

Jon's upper parts of mixed voice is sometimes heard in Power Station ERA and first 2 albums.

Mixed voice with normal larynx position or only slightly higher than normal and vocal sirens to hide the chest/falsetto flip eventually can very possibly lead to a mix that sounds the same or almost the same as your upper chest voice.

THAT WAY you can easily unhealthily drag up chest voice too high until it turns into mixed voice inevitably, due to singing muscle memory.
That is how Jon does it, even I do it. It makes most people untrained in singing think you have a big chest range.

How Jon sounded like hitting a B4 in 1996 is noticeably different from early to mid 1995, definitely due to vocal abuse and his smoking.
I think Jon's upper range might have decreased 1 half step total between 95 and 96. Maybe even his whole voice.
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  #42  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:27 PM
james_d james_d is offline
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In relation to Jon's voice, I spoke to my dad about it who is a classically trained singer (was a choirboy who performed in bands when he was younger). I showed him the Brisbane 2013 performance. He said that Jon's voice was clearly very damaged given how reasonable it was in early 2013, it's certainly not just him being tired. He did also say that Jon sounds better now than he did then, as well as 2016/17 which I found interesting.
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  #43  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:57 PM
WhamATC
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In that Always Brisbane 2013 he seemed upset or something when singing..
Why does your father think his voice was damaged in 2013?
Just wondering. Just saying his voice was damaged ain't enough for me.
Emotions can cause you to forget, overuse, etc. He used way too much twang in Brisbane, etc.

When I become emotional (For example when someone dies or so) my voice becomes a bit raspier and it feels like an effort physically to talk (Have to push my voice) and sometimes my pronunciation becomes worse and I even sometimes say words in the incorrect order.

Vocal damage doesn't really sound like that.
Vocal damage or irritation is often cracking, raspiness, croaky, breathiness, loss of range, etc.

Last edited by WhamATC; 07-04-2018 at 03:16 PM..
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  #44  
Old 07-04-2018, 03:15 PM
james_d james_d is offline
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From what I remember it was the sudden and dramatic change in voice that suggested genuine damage. Jon wasn't just flat but sounds genuinely very different to how he sounded in the months prior. I do agree though that his mental state probably played a role in his voice being quite so poor. It's also worth remembering that Jon now is in a good mental place and is still singing pretty flat throughout, although not as bad as years 2015-17.

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Originally Posted by WhamATC View Post
In that Always Brisbane 2013 he seemed upset or something when singing..
Why does your father think his voice was damaged in 2013?
Just wondering. Just saying his voice was damaged ain't enough for me.
Emotions can cause you to forget, overuse, etc. He used way too much twang in Brisbane, etc.

When I become emotional (For example when someone dies or so) my voice becomes a bit raspier and it feels like an effort physically to talk (Have to push my voice) and sometimes my pronunciation becomes worse and I even sometimes say words in the incorrect order.
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  #45  
Old 07-04-2018, 03:41 PM
WhamATC
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So the change in the quality, etc of the voice and how he is flat makes fans think his voice is damage?
Then yes sure.
Partly to do with aging too definitely.

Jon hasn't really used twang at all after the BWC tour which lead to him sounding pretty different since 2013. Twang makes you sound quacky or like a duck or something. Whenever Jon used twang he used an excessive amount of it.

He is very lucky to not have or had any nodules, polyps, etc. Loss or problems with falsetto/head voice is one of the absolutely first signs of vocal trouble/problems before anything else comes.

I think Jon only TRULY had vocal damage/strain during Slippery and Bounce.
I think April 1993 was mostly strain rather than damage which lead to some vocal trouble, but if he had continued singing like in April 93 during the whole KTF/Sleep tour it would eventually/definitely have turned into damage.

95/96 was probably a "balanced" combination of both.

Jon's correct technique 2008 - 13 was at times excessive, bad or just good.

Jon's voice has physically lowered and deepened between 2014 - 2018 though. I think his whole range has proportionally decreased 1 half step or maybe even a whole step since 2013 - 14.
His voice has become even older, manlier than before which is what I mean by deeper.

It's a very good thing that we have a thread like this now instead of always making a new thread of the same subject.

Last edited by WhamATC; 07-04-2018 at 03:55 PM..
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  #46  
Old 07-04-2018, 03:59 PM
james_d james_d is offline
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I don't think singing songs like always particularly helped, especially in the key he did in 2008-13. I hope Jon can get back to a point where he has reasonable control over his voice, even if that's with a pretty small range. Just makes me sad that I wasn't even alive during their prime years, although I still have some great memories linked to BJ.

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Originally Posted by WhamATC View Post
So the change in the quality, etc of the voice and how he is flat makes fans think his voice is damage?
Then yes sure.
Partly to do with aging too definitely.

Jon hasn't really used twang at all after the BWC tour which lead to him sounding pretty different since 2013. Twang makes you sound quacky or like a duck or something. Whenever Jon used twang he used an excessive amount of it.

He is very lucky to not have or had any nodules, polyps, etc. Loss or problems with falsetto/head voice is one of the absolutely first signs of vocal trouble/problems before anything else comes.

I think Jon only TRULY had vocal damage/strain during Slippery and Bounce.
I think April 1993 was mostly strain rather than damage which lead to some vocal trouble, but if he had continued singing like in April 93 during the whole KTF/Sleep tour it would eventually/definitely have turned into damage.

95/96 was probably a "balanced" combination of both.

Jon's correct technique 2008 - 13 was at times excessive, bad or just good.

Jon's voice has physically lowered and deepened between 2014 - 2018 though. I think his whole range has proportionally decreased 1 half step or maybe even a whole step since 2013 - 14.
His voice has become even older, manlier than before which is what I mean by deeper.

It's a very good thing that we have a thread like this now instead of always making a new thread of the same subject.
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  #47  
Old 07-04-2018, 05:01 PM
WhamATC
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Jon still has a pretty good range for the average singer.
As I said in an earlier post, the problem is that Jon uses too much chest voice instead of lightening it and adding a bit more head voice to it. Using too much chest voice for the higher notes can easily make you flat and even shouty.
And another reason being that his voice has lowered overall.

These two are the reasons why Jon sounds so shouty and is flat on the high notes in 2017/18.
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  #48  
Old 07-04-2018, 06:41 PM
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YOVANAfromPeru YOVANAfromPeru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamATC View Post
When I become emotional (For example when someone dies or so)
I become emotional reading this thread... U_U
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Jon Bon Jovi said about this selfie: "That's a good one!!"
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  #49  
Old 07-05-2018, 10:29 AM
jazzsta jazzsta is offline
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Although I enjoy Wham's and GreySynth's analysis, there is a crucial point which you haven't really touched. That is the breathing, pronounciation and rhythm problems. And although it is kinda dumb, I can neglect bad pronounciation. However bad rhythm is a really off-putting charcteristic. And bad breathing i.e. the incapability to sing a continious note/melody for its proper duration is also quite a bummer.

Rhythm : I mean, there is no point in singing bad medicine when you are off rhyhtm, ansd similarly for the other uptempo stuff. Yes the singer is not the drummer nor the bassist, but his lines should underline the groove, rather than undermining it.


woow cool pun there.

" yo I'm Jon, I be called the underminer
was a time when I be da underliner
but times change, it's not all the same
still I play da million-face-rockin' game "
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  #50  
Old 07-05-2018, 06:54 PM
WhamATC
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I can only associate his pronunciation and rhythm stuff to him being emotional and/or confidence stuff (I am sure it's not fully gone).
The thing is, if he talks and pronounces everything correct he should be able to sing and pronounce correct.
He just needs to try pronounce correct somehow, that is the solution instead of ignoring pronunciation, vocal cords have almost nothing to do with pronunciation except making the sound itself (Say AAAAA and you hear it) and the pitch.

He barely moved on stage due to lack of confidence 2013-2017. Due to lack of confidence he never did any sort of actual improvisations with vocals or so, not even really rasp in voice, etc at all. When he's very confident and/or happy he could/can do all of these in a single concert (Australia 2010. Sydney. Happy Now, STBI and SIBSN are good examples from that concert.)

In Sao Paulo, etc he regained confidence and started pronouncing words better due to that, etc.
He needs to fully regain confidence in order to pronounce words better.

Last edited by WhamATC; 07-05-2018 at 06:58 PM..
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