[Thinny]

Originally Posted by blazeofglory

The problem is they’re still screwing silver members over when they put the content they paid for as well on USBs and send them out in the boxes to the gold members.

Unless you’re willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money for what’s mostly cheap crap you’re still not getting what was promised.

I get that, but silver members are still getting most of the shows to stream that were on Sirius etc arent they? Correct me if I'm wrong. If so, technically you are getting what you paid for as far as unreleased material goes. It's just that your expectations are higher than what was delivered.

I'm not a defender of the experince, I think it's been dreadful from the start, but you can't be a silver member and then complain that gold gets something that silver doesn't. That's the whole point in having different teirs....

[Captain_jovi]

It blows my mind that people complained about the Hall of Fame soundcheck. You've got the first performance of Richie and Alec (I can't tell if he's there) since the split and even that doesn't pass the bar.

Anyways my gut says Dublin will make it to the silver package/Sirius at some point.

[blazeofglory]

Originally Posted by Thinny

I get that, but silver members are still getting most of the shows to stream that were on Sirius etc arent they? Correct me if I'm wrong. If so, technically you are getting what you paid for as far as unreleased material goes. It's just that your expectations are higher than what was delivered.

I'm not a defender of the experince, I think it's been dreadful from the start, but you can't be a silver member and then complain that gold gets something that silver doesn't. That's the whole point in having different teirs....

It’s not reaaaally unreleased material anymore after it’s already been streamed for every American with a Sirius subscription though, is it? I know it’s kind of a “gray area” - does it still count as unreleased material or not? - but it just feels like a cheap loophole to get away with making those extra bucks from the silver subscriptions while putting in as little effort as possible.

However, I’m also gonna admit that I’m biased and hold a personal grudge against the Experience because I was a silver member for the first year and basically wasted that money on David Bergman videos and footage that was ripped straight from YouTube.


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[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by blazeofglory

It’s not reaaaally unreleased material anymore after it’s already been streamed for every American with a Sirius subscription though, is it? I know it’s kind of a “gray area” - does it still count as unreleased material or not? - but it just feels like a cheap loophole to get away with making those extra bucks from the silver subscriptions while putting in as little effort as possible.

However, I’m also gonna admit that I’m biased and hold a personal grudge against the Experience because I was a silver member for the first year and basically wasted that money on David Bergman videos and footage that was ripped straight from YouTube.


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But that raises the question, does the fanbase want it because it's unreleased or because it's good? They are absolutely skirting the rules by pulling stuff largely forgotten off of Youtube, no doubt about it, but for non collectors its some neat stuff if you're not hung totally up on the notion that a few hundred people know it exists. For the completest it's probably less desirable, true.

Thinny brought up a very good point, all the Bergman stuff (That really should have been three to four videos tops) is hella exclusive. The word doesn't lose its meaning because the package didn't hit your (not you specifically, the fanbase in generals) expectations.

The Experience isn't for the type of fan I am, but if you're new to the band or don't collect I just don't think it was that horrible.

[rolo_tomachi]

We just need more unreleased shows, I don't care what the medium is... sirius, experience... maybe the ideal is that Bon Jovi create an online site for live shows (like Metallica and Pearl Jam). I hope this is all just a way to test the waters for make that site in the future.

[blazeofglory]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

But that raises the question, does the fanbase want it because it's unreleased or because it's good? They are absolutely skirting the rules by pulling stuff largely forgotten off of Youtube, no doubt about it, but for non collectors its some neat stuff if you're not hung totally up on the notion that a few hundred people know it exists. For the completest it's probably less desirable, true.

Thinny brought up a very good point, all the Bergman stuff (That really should have been three to four videos tops) is hella exclusive. The word doesn't lose its meaning because the package didn't hit your (not you specifically, the fanbase in generals) expectations.

The Experience isn't for the type of fan I am, but if you're new to the band or don't collect I just don't think it was that horrible.

I think the issue isn’t so much whether fans want unreleased stuff vs. good stuff, but rather the fact that they advertised the Experience with the promise of unreleased material, so that’s what people decided to pay for. If they had advertised it as “rarely seen/heard material” or something along those lines it would’ve been up to the fans to decide whether they still want to pay for something they could find elsewhere for free.

And while the David Bergman videos were exclusive for sure, they were the only content they uploaded for several months, which certainly breaks the promise of “exclusive Jon Bon Jovi monthly digital content” they have written on their website. I’m not a lawyer, so please correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that when you subscribe to the Experience, the things they promise on their website become part of the contract, and they technically did not fulfill those contractual obligations.

The content not meeting your expectations is one thing, but when you “sign” a contract and it specifies what exactly you’re paying for and then they don’t even deliver on that, that’s just one big scam and any kind of content they might be putting out now, that they’ve already charged people for a second year, doesn’t make up for that first year.

Sure, the Experience might be nice for people who are new to the band or just not overly immersed in the live material that is already out there, but technically those fans still got scammed just like everyone else. They just don’t realize it.


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[Captain_jovi]

Originally Posted by blazeofglory

I think the issue isn’t so much whether fans want unreleased stuff vs. good stuff, but rather the fact that they advertised the Experience with the promise of unreleased material, so that’s what people decided to pay for. If they had advertised it as “rarely seen/heard material” or something along those lines it would’ve been up to the fans to decide whether they still want to pay for something they could find elsewhere for free.

And while the David Bergman videos were exclusive for sure, they were the only content they uploaded for several months, which certainly breaks the promise of “exclusive Jon Bon Jovi monthly digital content” they have written on their website. I’m not a lawyer, so please correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that when you subscribe to the Experience, the things they promise on their website become part of the contract, and they technically did not fulfill those contractual obligations.

The content not meeting your expectations is one thing, but when you “sign” a contract and it specifies what exactly you’re paying for and then they don’t even deliver on that, that’s just one big scam and any kind of content they might be putting out now, that they’ve already charged people for a second year, doesn’t make up for that first year.

Sure, the Experience might be nice for people who are new to the band or just not overly immersed in the live material that is already out there, but technically those fans still got scammed just like everyone else. They just don’t realize it.


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You're saying a lot I agree with but I think likening this to signing a contract is a bit much. If at some point they put out stuff that checked all the of boxes, which I believe they have, that would clear them. I don't recall there being anyone saying "we're going to give you and keep giving you stuff never released.

I just think....the side of the fanbase this is marketed towards is decently sizable compared to the 0.00001% people who lose their shit if a pre-aired radio broadcast makes the cut. I don't think I'd call it being scammed. Where ones expectations were going into it has everything to do with how they feel when they content is revealed.

It's been lackluster, I'll give ya that, but it's up to each person that paid to decide if it was or was not worth it based on their level of fandom. The loudest people here complaining are the ones that didn't buy it. My gut reaction will always be this was going to be used to sell vip tickets and some shoddy bonus stuff to make it more worth it and when the tour fell apart (pretty much twice) it left them with a mountain of work to try and fix things and it was too little too late.

[YOVANAfromPeru]

The file says: JBJ Live Dublin IRE June 10 2001 (M).mp3
it's one file
126:48
it's not the big deal
it has a lot of inconsistencies
*The Cincinnati show was way better, of course

[blazeofglory]

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

You're saying a lot I agree with but I think likening this to signing a contract is a bit much. If at some point they put out stuff that checked all the of boxes, which I believe they have, that would clear them. I don't recall there being anyone saying "we're going to give you and keep giving you stuff never released.

I just think....the side of the fanbase this is marketed towards is decently sizable compared to the 0.00001% people who lose their shit if a pre-aired radio broadcast makes the cut. I don't think I'd call it being scammed. Where ones expectations were going into it has everything to do with how they feel when they content is revealed.

It's been lackluster, I'll give ya that, but it's up to each person that paid to decide if it was or was not worth it based on their level of fandom. The loudest people here complaining are the ones that didn't buy it. My gut reaction will always be this was going to be used to sell vip tickets and some shoddy bonus stuff to make it more worth it and when the tour fell apart (pretty much twice) it left them with a mountain of work to try and fix things and it was too little too late.

It is a contract though, every purchase you make is a contract between you and the seller. They probably technically are in the clear for the most part, because they put out a bunch of “gray area” stuff like I said earlier, but if you use loopholes to get away with not delivering what you promised that’s still a scam. And whether people care or even notice that it’s a scam doesn’t change what it is.

If I buy a Bon Jovi CD from you and you (knowingly) put a Cher CD, that has songs co-written by Jon and Richie on it, in my bag instead and I just say “oh well this is fine, I like Cher” when I open the bag at home, that’s all good for me, being happy with what I got, but technically you still scammed me and just got lucky that I’m a customer who doesn’t care.

Chances are you’re right and they originally had different plans for this whole thing that didn’t work out, so they were left trying to fix things, but Bon Jovi isn’t a small local business trying to survive where you might say “okay this was kinda sh*t, but they were in a difficult situation, so I understand”. They’re a massive corporation worth gigantic sums of money with business operations worldwide, so there’s really no excuse for them not delivering what they promised their customers. They easily could’ve hired more people to help them with the workload and they also should’ve been prepared, that stuff like VIP ticket sales might not work out in the end with the pandemic still going.


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[Thinny]

Originally Posted by blazeofglory

It’s not reaaaally unreleased material anymore after it’s already been streamed for every American with a Sirius subscription though, is it?

Yes, I would still class it as unreleased. If a show was broadcast on a radio station back in the day, it wouldn't have been classed as "released". I don't see how Sirus is any different to this. It's not available on demand, just aired at a certain time. It's "Unreleased" until it's on Spotify etc, or released on CD or Vinyl in my opinion.

Also some of the concerts are given to the fan club before they air on Sirius, so that would definitely count. The fan club got the exclusive, as they had it first. Exclusive does not mean it will never appear anywhere else ever.

Like you said it's a grey area, but techncially they are delivering what they promised now. The certainly weren't for the first year or so...