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  #1771  
Old 12-01-2021, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by nikos greece View Post
not a fan of bobby but had the same background with them, was a juke, had a voice similar to jon in certain areas, and was an ok backing guitarist who was in the shadows...
imo they sound have a second guitarist at all and just use some samples when necessary...Richie was more than enough
Bobby's voice complimented what they do perfectly but his guitar tone and playing style just rubbed me the wrong way.

I don't really agree about the samples. The Bounce tour over-used guitar samples and it made it sound too clinical and robotic. I thin the perfect guitarist for them lies between Shanks and Phil. Shanks is a more emotional player, Phil has a really aggressive picking style. Perfect world I'd want Richie there but when he was in auto-pilot mode it was repeated pentatonic licks, tips and tricks over and over again. I've never understood why they didn't have David fill in those gaps with heavier distorted organ parts like in the early days. It'd fill those rhythm gaps during the solo and beef up the sound a little.

From there it's a discussion of would you rather Richie bored or not there at all? Ditto Jon. I've seen them on both on fire and I've seen them both phoning it in. At least Phil is up there having a good time regardless if he deserves to be or not.
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  #1772  
Old 12-02-2021, 12:30 AM
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The only thing I liked from Bobby in his years in Bon Jovi was when he sang Drift Away at Stuttgart in 2008,i was blown away!
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  #1773  
Old 12-02-2021, 01:08 AM
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Phil is not there to replace Richie. He's hired as a touring musician to play lead on classic Bon Jovi tracks.

I feel his likeablity moved him up in the ranks to take over some of the album mirage but all new music is Shanks with both lyrics and guitar.

They might throw Phil a bone to give him some album credits but his contributions are no more than any studio musician coming in to add parts to any album.

Bon Jovi is now Jon Bon Jovi featuring the members of Bon Jovi... and with Jon turning 60 with severe vocal decline, I don't think he's looking for Richie Part 2. Jon is no longer the same guy, the new music is no longer the same, and band is no longer Bon Jovi as we once knew it.


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  #1774  
Old 12-02-2021, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Rdkopper View Post
Phil is not there to replace Richie. He's hired as a touring musician to play lead on classic Bon Jovi tracks.

I feel his likeablity moved him up in the ranks to take over some of the album mirage but all new music is Shanks with both lyrics and guitar.

They might throw Phil a bone to give him some album credits but his contributions are no more than any studio musician coming in to add parts to any album.

Bon Jovi is now Jon Bon Jovi featuring the members of Bon Jovi... and with Jon turning 60 with severe vocal decline, I don't think he's looking for Richie Part 2. Jon is no longer the same guy, the new music is no longer the same, and band is no longer Bon Jovi as we once knew it.


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But you can hear him clear as day on the tracks he's credited as playing on 2020 (everything but Shine, American Reckoning, Story of Love) I don't think it makes sense to give him credits as playing on these songs if he wasn't.

What I will say about this era is...it's finally honest in the credits. Shanks plays piano here, David plays organ there, Phil's not on this song, Dave's on this song.

But the idea that Shanks is this mastermind that is writing the music....nah. This is the least amount of Shanks co-writes we've gotten on a record in awhile and one of his better produced ones. If Shanks was behind the scenes presenting the songs to Jon on 2020, the other songs would sound more like his style and the ones that do ABSOLUTELY do. Just my thoughts.
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  #1775  
Old 12-02-2021, 03:08 AM
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But you can hear him clear as day on the tracks he's credited as playing on 2020 (everything but Shine, American Reckoning, Story of Love) I don't think it makes sense to give him credits as playing on these songs if he wasn't.



What I will say about this era is...it's finally honest in the credits. Shanks plays piano here, David plays organ there, Phil's not on this song, Dave's on this song.



But the idea that Shanks is this mastermind that is writing the music....nah. This is the least amount of Shanks co-writes we've gotten on a record in awhile and one of his better produced ones. If Shanks was behind the scenes presenting the songs to Jon on 2020, the other songs would sound more like his style and the ones that do ABSOLUTELY do. Just my thoughts.
Hear him vocally or guitar?

Regardless, he was obviously involved with some of the recording and backing vocals... And for good reason if Jon wants to put him on the album cover... But his input is probably no more than Dave or Ticos...

As far as song development goes:
I truly think that Jon gives Shanks a final acoustic version of a song with no real direction. Maybe a basic medley (We heard songs like Reunion, Do What You Can, Working Man all prior to album releases) and then Shanks takes over from there. He's the guy who develops the song structure including writing most of the instruments. He also co writes lyrics with Jon too...He is way more Richie Part 2 than Phil is... but at the same time, he was doing most of that while Richie was still in the band. He just took on more of it since Richie left.

Like Shanks or not, he is a musical genius in his own right.

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  #1776  
Old 12-02-2021, 04:33 AM
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Somehow I don't have problem with Shanks.
My problem is Phil X.
Anyway... this picture is kind of funny >_< jaja
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  #1777  
Old 12-02-2021, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Rdkopper View Post
Hear him vocally or guitar?

Regardless, he was obviously involved with some of the recording and backing vocals... And for good reason if Jon wants to put him on the album cover... But his input is probably no more than Dave or Ticos...

As far as song development goes:
I truly think that Jon gives Shanks a final acoustic version of a song with no real direction. Maybe a basic medley (We heard songs like Reunion, Do What You Can, Working Man all prior to album releases) and then Shanks takes over from there. He's the guy who develops the song structure including writing most of the instruments. He also co writes lyrics with Jon too...He is way more Richie Part 2 than Phil is... but at the same time, he was doing most of that while Richie was still in the band. He just took on more of it since Richie left.

Like Shanks or not, he is a musical genius in his own right.

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Guitar-wise. Checking my notes he only did backing vocals on Do What You Can, Limitless and Beautiful Drug. 2 and 3 are gang vocals so it's hard to pick him out. I don't really hear him as well on DWYC.

Guitar wise, yeah, I hear his style on most of the songs he's credited on. Some I don't hear his style as much but honestly....is kind of the point of a good session guitarist. Don't stand out, serve the song, add your flair when you can. You can tell the ones recorded live off the floor were Beautiful Drug, Let it Rain, Blood in the Water, Brothers in Arms and mayyybe Luv Can. It's a very controversial thing to say here but....they sound like a band playing. Not the band we want or are as crazy about but it's a world of difference. Last album there were a lot of studio-built songs.

I hear your point about us hearing early versions of all those songs but we didn't hear how the structure was built, we heard Jon do them acoustically. For all we know he stripped it down to fit these shows. There's a lot we don't know about how the songs are recorded. The common rhetoric around here is how little the band hand to do with WAN when engineers of the record say different. Tough to say how involved Shanks is. Past records, yeah but again, Jon wrote the bulk of this record along. Sure Shanks helped arrange the songs, as the producer it's his job. I just don't think he's the kingpin of the operation making the songs his own because Jon doesn't want to.
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  #1778  
Old 12-02-2021, 03:54 PM
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how do we know which songs Phil actually played on? I remember hearing that Shanks played on Story Of Love and Blood In The Water and that Phil played on Beautiful Drug, but I don't recall getting information like that about any of the other songs. Maybe I missed something there 😅
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  #1779  
Old 12-02-2021, 04:25 PM
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how do we know which songs Phil actually played on? I remember hearing that Shanks played on Story Of Love and Blood In The Water and that Phil played on Beautiful Drug, but I don't recall getting information like that about any of the other songs. Maybe I missed something there 😅
I'm fairly certain the info came from the liner notes but:

Shanks did acoustic on Do What You Can, Story of Love, Let it Rain, Lower The Flag, Blood in the Water, Brothers in Arms, Unbroken, Luv Can and Shine.

Both Shanks and Phil doing electric guitar on: Limitless, Do What You Can, Beautiful Drug, Let it Rain, Lower The Flag, Blood in the Water, Brothers in Arms, Unbroken, Luv Can and Shine.

Just Shanks on Electric: Story of Love and Shine
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  #1780  
Old 12-03-2021, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain_jovi View Post
I'm fairly certain the info came from the liner notes but:

Shanks did acoustic on Do What You Can, Story of Love, Let it Rain, Lower The Flag, Blood in the Water, Brothers in Arms, Unbroken, Luv Can and Shine.

Both Shanks and Phil doing electric guitar on: Limitless, Do What You Can, Beautiful Drug, Let it Rain, Lower The Flag, Blood in the Water, Brothers in Arms, Unbroken, Luv Can and Shine.

Just Shanks on Electric: Story of Love and Shine
Ah thank you! My CD booklet doesn't have individual song credits in it though
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