[JackieBlue]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

Jackie what you fail to understand is the relationship between Jon and Richie...

First of all, Richie has multiple roles within the band... The three main ones are:

1. Writer
2. Musician / Backup Vocalist
3. Co Producer

Richie might have more involvement in certain roles than others... For example he might have had a bigger role during the writing stage of The Circle but less during the production process... On the flip side, he did less writing during KTF but added more musicianship and Co Producing...

Second, from what I observed throughout their many years together, they have or had a great 'PROFESSIONAL FRIENDSHIP'... They weren't ever best friends regardless of what Jon had muttered a few times. They both care about each other but to say they are best friends is an overstatement... They don't hang out, go to dinner, or even see each other during their off times... I have a great work friend who I hang with all the time but our friendship never leaves the professional environment... We hang all day long and even do lunch together but once we leave, we hardly ever hang out... Beside a phone call of text every so often we'll only get together for a special occasion... That's Jon and Richie and the Band... I think when they are all together working, they are tight as ever but when they are separated, they hardly see each other or even talk... No band members have ever been to the Soul Kitchen or Dave's restaurant for that matter... Dave is a silent partner at a restaurant right down the street from The Soul Kitchen and he's never even been there....

You need to get out of this fantasy world and bring it back to reality..


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I'm sorry, I know it's late and I'm sleepy, but what in the Sam Hill does the nature of the relationship between Jon and Richie have to do with why Jon fired Doc? or with him taking over the reins to manage the band? Or with the way he rewrites history?

I'm at a loss here... Your post has absolutely nothing to do with anything we were discussing. And I don't have a clue about what fantasy world you think I inhabit. I'm certainly not the one living in a world where Jon speaks the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.


So if it's okay with you, I think I'm gonna just disregard your post until you come back from whatever fantasy island it is that you're visiting.

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by JackieBlue

I'm sorry, I know it's late and I'm sleepy, but what in the Sam Hill does the nature of the relationship between Jon and Richie have to do with why Jon fired Doc? or with him taking over the reins to manage the band? Or with the way he rewrites history?

I'm at a loss here... Your post has absolutely nothing to do with anything we were discussing. And I don't have a clue about what fantasy world you think I inhabit. I'm certainly not the one living in a world where Jon speaks the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.


So if it's okay with you, I think I'm gonna just disregard your post until you come back from whatever fantasy island it is that you're visiting.

You're crying about Richie's involvement with The Circle... You think Jon is being contradicting because he said Richie hasn't been as involved with the past 3 to 4 albums yet he's been a cowriter on most, if not all, of the songs...

I just pulled a you and went a little overboard... Confusing? Huh?

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[Thinny]

RD you are the king of going overboard!

We all know that Jon rewrites history all the time to suit his current situation...more so now than ever....

[hackster73]

Let's sum it up. They used to be brilliant but now sadly they are a very poor imitation of Bon Jovi.

[Javier]

Originally Posted by JackieBlue

I agree that it's Jon's band and he's unable to deliver. But I could argue your point that he's the glue that holds everything together; because he's struggling to do that right now, and history says otherwise.

Tico said in an interview in 1987 that when he joined the band "It was a very young, immature band then, no one knew each other and Richie wasn’t in it yet. It came together when Richie came in, it started clicking."

There's no denying that the band has been in decline for a while now, even while Richie was there. It was even more apparent with the end of the BWC tour and then the Asian junket in 2015; but people weren't saying Jon couldn't deliver except in a few of the more demanding songs. Even with the THINFS promo shows, they did okay as long as they stuck to the new songs. It wasn't until they started this tour and tried to pull off some of their classics live, without Richie, that ppl really started saying the band needs to hang it up.

I'm probably going to make some people mad by saying this, but it looks to me like the only person who was there only from the time it "started clicking" up until the time everything "started falling apart" was Richie. That makes me think that Richie was the glue - or, at the very least, the "hook" side that Jon's velcro stuck to. JMO.

Some would agree with you and you're entitled to your opinion of course but to me, that latter 2013 tour was kickass!! Jon was holding the whole thing together like a champ, and while a lot were whining and saying it sucked I couldn't have been more pleased with what I was seeing. Good and somewhat varied setlists, great guitar collaborations between Phil, Bobby and Jon, shows were upbeat and fun! Did Jon sound perfect?? Hell no!! But he was giving enough showmanship to compensate for it, something which he isn't doing now. So while a lot of you are seeing when Richie left as the time things started to fall apart, I see it a bit differently since nothing in that tour felt like it was falling apart to me. Of course, that's JMO....

[steel_horse75]

Originally Posted by hackster73

Let's sum it up. They used to be brilliant but now sadly they are a very poor imitation of Bon Jovi.

Thats about it.

My Mrs supports Arsenal and my team, LFC, thumped them the other day 4-0, Wenger the manager came on and I felt sorry for him. He should have quit 2 years ago, he looked old, battered and bruised. Remind you of anyone?

I said to my wife - Wenger reminds me of a rock star who cant sing, hasnt wrote a decent album in years and keeps touring even though he's finished - just like JBJ.

Bon Jovi are finished. I havent even played THINFS since early this year. The new songs have no longevity. Theres no classics. I dont remember them after less than a year so I certainly wont be gagging to hear them in 25 years like I do with first 6 albums.

JBJ needs to pull the plug. 3/5 of the original band are there and the stage is full of stand ins. I like Phil X but he is wasted in this Bon Jovi tribute act.

JBJ always said that when the band becomes a nostalgia act thats the time to stop. That time was 2013 when Richie walked/was fired. Should competed the tour then folded it.

[semigoodlooking]

Originally Posted by steel_horse75

Thats about it.

My Mrs supports Arsenal and my team, LFC, thumped them the other day 4-0, Wenger the manager came on and I felt sorry for him. He should have quit 2 years ago, he looked old, battered and bruised. Remind you of anyone?

I said to my wife - Wenger reminds me of a rock star who cant sing, hasnt wrote a decent album in years and keeps touring even though he's finished - just like JBJ.
.

Liverpool are also the football team that can't sing, hasn't written a decent album in years, and keeps touring even though he's finished.

Also, is someone here really trying to say Richie was the glue that held the band together and not Jon? That's some revisionism when Jon is obviously the driving force behind the band and always was.

I am heading to see the band in Buenos Aires in two weeks. It is the first show, probably in my life, that I simply don't want to go to. My wife wants to so I am going with her, but I am prepared to be bored and unimpressed. I know some can get lost in atmosphere, but I need a good performance.

[Thinny]

I absolutely believe that Jon is the glue. It's his band, his vision. But Richie was his right hand man and without him that glue seems to be wearing thin. They were such a great team, Richie not being there is going to change the dynamic completely.

[steel_horse75]

Originally Posted by semigoodlooking

Liverpool are also the football team that can't sing, hasn't written a decent album in years, and keeps touring even though he's finished.

Also, is someone here really trying to say Richie was the glue that held the band together and not Jon? That's some revisionism when Jon is obviously the driving force behind the band and always was.

I am heading to see the band in Buenos Aires in two weeks. It is the first show, probably in my life, that I simply don't want to go to. My wife wants to so I am going with her, but I am prepared to be bored and unimpressed. I know some can get lost in atmosphere, but I need a good performance.

Yeah im not comparing football teams Im saying when you see someone thats gone on for too long and it reminded me of JBJ.

No Im not saying RS held the band together (Show me where I said that?) but I think losing RS has massively weakened the band.
I dont want to see a bloke with bongos, Shanks on Guitar and other randoms performing as Bon Jovi - well I did at the Palladium. Its not the same anymore.
Might as well go and see The Bon Jovi experience, Bi Jovi or Jon Bovi for £10.00

[Becky]

When you read biographies, you are reading quotes that may not be real quotes and your taking them from some people who have had fallen out with the band like Lonn Friend. Everyone with a brain and any level of self understanding can look backwards and see that what they did at one point may have been motivated by something they didn't realize at the time. It doesn't make what was their truth at the time a calculated lie like you try to make any little contradiction to be. You hold Jon to an impossible standard of perfection, nitpick every word, and to be honest with you, when you're only looking back in hindsight like you are, you're not going to see the same picture as those who lived it.

I'm personally too sick to try to keep up with your 8000 word posts. We get it. You think Jon is a lying, evil, SOB and Richie bears no responsibility for his own behavior. Fine, no one is going to convince you otherwise and I have better things to do like sleeping 17 hours a day since I don't have to go to work today.

Have fun. I don't need more stress in my life from someone who clearly hates Jon no matter how much you deny it. My band is still together making music I like. That is what I'm going to focus on.

My point remains though. You have missed a lot of this band's history that you will never "get" by reading about it.