[Thinny]

I've been following the band very closely since the 80's and I'm afraid that I come to many of the same conclusions as Jackie. Some of Jon's stuff is not opinions, he changes facts. I'm not saying he's the only one that does it, but as he is the main focus point of the band, of course there are more quotes etc from him.

At no point do I think that anyone said that Richie isn't responsible for his own actions. However it seems like you are allowed to defend Jon at every instance but you don't offer others the same luxury when it comes to Richie. A little Pot, Kettle, Black for me...

I'm happy that you are happy that your "band" is together, making ok albums and doing sub standard live shows. But we don't all have to be...

Moving on...

[semigoodlooking]

Originally Posted by steel_horse75

Yeah im not comparing football teams Im saying when you see someone thats gone on for too long and it reminded me of JBJ.

No Im not saying RS held the band together (Show me where I said that?) but I think losing RS has massively weakened the band.
I dont want to see a bloke with bongos, Shanks on Guitar and other randoms performing as Bon Jovi - well I did at the Palladium. Its not the same anymore.
Might as well go and see The Bon Jovi experience, Bi Jovi or Jon Bovi for £10.00

Only the bold part was at you.

[JackieBlue]

Originally Posted by Becky

When you read biographies, you are reading quotes that may not be real quotes and your taking them from some people who have had fallen out with the band like Lonn Friend.

Like Rosa, you either missed or chose to ignore the fact that Jon confirmed what was said.

Originally Posted by Becky

Everyone with a brain and any level of self understanding can look backwards and see that what they did at one point may have been motivated by something they didn't realize at the time. It doesn't make what was their truth at the time a calculated lie like you try to make any little contradiction to be.

That's why I included Jon's comment that he came to that realization later. Not all of his contradictions are calculated lies. I wouldn't even say that most of them are calculated per se, but that still doesn't make them true.

Originally Posted by Becky

You hold Jon to an impossible standard of perfection, nitpick every word... I don't need more stress in my life from someone who clearly hates Jon no matter how much you deny it.

It seems to me that you're the one holding Jon to an impossible standard, because you seem to be unable to tolerate any comments that imply he might have the same imperfections as other mortals. Maybe that's why it's so hard for you to believe that I can accept him just like he is, warts and all, and still like him.

Originally Posted by Becky

...We get it. You think Jon is a lying, evil, SOB and Richie bears no responsibility for his own behavior...

If that's what you (and whoever else comprises "we") understand from what I've posted, then you "get" nothing. Jon lies, yes; but nowhere have I ever said, or implied, that I think he is an evil SOB or that Richie bears no responsibility for his actions. Nowhere, that is, except in your twisted interpretations. The simple fact is, it's just easier for you to believe that, than it is to have to admit there may some truth to what I say.

Originally Posted by Becky

...when you're only looking back in hindsight like you are, you're not going to see the same picture as those who lived it...You have missed a lot of this band's history that you will never "get" by reading about it.

So where is it that you got all this knowledge that you have because you "lived it", that I don't "get" or I missed by not being there? Is there some first-hand knowledge or something that I don't have access to? Because, tbh, most of the quotes and information that you use in trying to correct my lack of knowledge seem to come from the same sources I have now. Why does it make a difference if I read it or heard it in 1987 or in 2017? I agree the picture I see may be different because I wasn't there; but some might argue that the truth is even more apparent in retrospect, because there's the added benefit of knowing the events that followed afterwards.

Originally Posted by Becky

My band is still together making music I like. That is what I'm going to focus on.

Becky, "your" band would still be together if it was Jon and the Spice Girls because Jon would still be the front man, the franchise, the CEO, the creative genius and the driving force behind it. But 3/5 of Bon Jovi, with all the extras Jon has on stage trying to cover for one missing guitarist, bears little resemblance to the Bon Jovi that I started following 10 years ago and I'm not going pretend otherwise. I can enjoy the new songs but when they attempt the classic hits that my band made, I think they sound like a bad cover band. If you enjoy that, rock on, baby!

[BJFan99]

Why didn't Jon play the guitar on Wanted at Endicott, but did here, less than two weeks later?

https://youtu.be/g2TMDPC_elQ

Somehow, I think Jon sounded better there as well (at least a bit less whispery) - especially on the "I drive all night..." part HE ALMOST SOUNDED LIKE HIMSELF AGAIN! Unfortunately, the choruses still need some work.

[Becky]

I just did a Facebook quiz and it said I always avoid dumb fights. I'm not doing that so well, but I'm going to. A couple of things:

Actually, yes, I do know of a lot of stories behind the scenes that have never and will never be published (probably). So I have some perspective that others might not (other people have the same information, but they don't tell everything they know either.)

The Spice Girls aren't even musicians so that statement is ridiculous. Bon Jovi did not cease to be Bon Jovi when Alec left and it has still not ceased to be Bon Jovi. Good grief, look at bands who have no original members or one original member left. People move on. It's life.

You use a kernel of truth to speculate to the moon and back. That doesn't make any of your speculation "truth."

Five years of this conversation is enough for me. I'm done. Continuing this conversation is futile and stupid. Now, feel free to write a dissertation in response and I will happily ignore it. Going in circles is useless.

[Eveline]

Conspiracy theories vs. secret knowledge. I don't know what's worse. They say 'you can say what you like on paper.' I've read such things online my head hurt and those were folks who claimed to have been insiders to the story but never any proof. There was a girl who claimed to have slept with Richie but she wasn't a groupie and she really fought a lot with "rumours" and stuff. Well, I can say I was there and could eavesdrop this or that. Or I'm friends with somebody who works for them. Hell, I could be a maid cleaning their rooms.

I have a weird feeling this whole forum has just a few active users that's why we're "going in circles." I joined not so long ago so I guess it used to be different but still, I'm glad I could learn a lot here. There's grain of truth in every rumour, theory or opinion. We'll see.

[Thinny]

Ha, yes people who claim to have inside information make me laugh. Sometimes crew, friends, colleagues, even family simply don't have a clue. Matt Bongiovi is a prime example...always acting like he's in the know, but constantly giving out incorrect information. Unless it's coming from a Bon Jovi band member then the credibility is zero as far as I'm concerned.

I've worked with a few bands that have toured with Bon Jovi and the differences in stories are incredible, and there are plenty of stories...

[Eveline]

Let's wait for RDK who knows what the "true nature" of relationship between Jon and Richie is like and that we already know EVERYTHING so why beating a dead horse? Bitchin' about Jon's shot (?) voice sounds like a broken record, too because we don't know whether it's really shot (when it was strained and hoarse in the 80's its sound was completely diffrent) OR he developed some sort of non physical damage due to stress ("I couldn't sing in the shower" thing) and no surgery is necessary. See? It's all a BLUR so claiming there's no space for talking and speculating is bull... we don't know half the truth and it's normal for people to pursue it till they find it! Being a fan of Bon Jovi is a fascinating journey, we just have little patience with each other or maybe it's easier to stick up to your gut feeling and wait till everybody just catch up :3

[rosa3]

Originally Posted by Thinny

Ha, yes people who claim to have inside information make me laugh. Sometimes crew, friends, colleagues, even family simply don't have a clue. Tony Bongiovi is a prime example...always acting like he's in the know, but constantly giving out incorrect information. Unless it's coming from a Bon Jovi band member then the credibility is zero as far as I'm concerned.

I've worked with a few bands that have toured with Bon Jovi and the differences in stories are incredible, and there are plenty of stories...

Then why don't you tell your stories? Since you claim you worked with these other bands, prove it once and for all.

[Thinny]

Because I've been told them in confidence. One person says Jon is great, another person says Jon was an asshole. Like I said, they all have very different experiences with the band, and I don't treat any information as 100% accurate unless it comes from a Bon Jovi band member. The stories I've heard would not add anything to the current debate. The bands that I know toured with Bon Jovi many many years ago. One things is for sure though, the bad blood between Jon and Richie has been going on a lot longer than most people realise...

I do know the Live Nation rep from last years Bad Company shows and he said that Richie was hoot and lots of fun to be around.