[Rdkopper]

It always seems in interviews that Bon Jon (Jon & Richie) take full writing credit for all the songs on their albums. But then if you look up (Winkipedia) Desmond Child, Max Martin, Etc, Etc, it's almost like they get the credit.

First, How much input do you think these outside song writers really have?

Second, I'm sure these guys don't come cheap so I'm surprised Jon would even use them and pay out royalties. Jon and/or Richie penned some great songs without them in the past so I'm not sure why they'd need to use them for more than a song or 2 on each album.

Jon & Richie wrote WWBTF on The Circle. This song is going to drive the album so why use Desmond (and a few others) for a handful of other songs? Do they really need him/them?

Third (for one example), Jon always says when he wrote It's My Life he wanted to use the line "When Frankie Said I Did It My Way" but then if you look up the song, it says that Max Martin wrote it. Did Jon just write that one line?

Forth, I'm curious to see a list of songs Jon and/or Richie just wrote vr songs they wrote with outside song writers

[superman02]

Lately Jon is constantly talkin' in first person.I this, I that,....If you watch VH1 behind the music that was recorded 'round 2001 or so, where Doc Mcghee says: "...when you start hearing I's instead of we's, you know party is pretty much over...".He said that talking about the end of NJ tour. I think that says a lot about what Jon means when he says I did this or I did that.
When you talk about songwriting Desmond Child is the 3rd part of BJ songwriting.I mean this guy co-wrote all the big ones (except Wanted, Always,These Days and few others).I do think of him as a member of BJ writing society, so to speak.As i see it, they started writing, in 2000 era, with a lot of young songwriters to get "hip-trendy" sound on their albums, songs.In my opinion that was a biiiig mistake! On this album, The Circle, you have old JB&RS&DC writing "squad" and you can hear the difference.That is BJ sound!!All those different writers that wrote with JB "killed" BJ sound.Yes it's trendy but it's not real BJ sound.
I listened to These days yesterday, after a looong time,and you can hear such a huge differenece between those songs and the ones in recent years.They are so well crafted !! And the whole TD album was written by the trio-amigos.
So if i was Jon i'd stop following the trends and i'd go back to writing my own songs, and forget about those hired songwriters.Cos it's sad that last night ,when i watched EMA's, when Tokio Hotel performed on stage you could hear the same drums, guitar effects and other shit as on BJ record.GO back boys!!
SO what if you don't have no 1 hit and album!!Screw that!We want songs that mean something, not some trendy pop band.Peace!!

[Captain Walrus]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

It always seems in interviews that Bon Jon (Jon & Richie) take full writing credit for all the songs on their albums. But then if you look up (Winkipedia) Desmond Child, Max Martin, Etc, Etc, it's almost like they get the credit.

First, How much input do you think these outside song writers really have?

Second, I'm sure these guys don't come cheap so I'm surprised Jon would even use them and pay out royalties. Jon and/or Richie penned some great songs without them in the past so I'm not sure why they'd need to use them for more than a song or 2 on each album.

Jon & Richie wrote WWBTF on The Circle. This song is going to drive the album so why use Desmond (and a few others) for a handful of other songs? Do they really need him/them?

Third (for one example), Jon always says when he wrote It's My Life he wanted to use the line "When Frankie Said I Did It My Way" but then if you look up the song, it says that Max Martin wrote it. Did Jon just write that one line?

Forth, I'm curious to see a list of songs Jon and/or Richie just wrote vr songs they wrote with outside song writers

Desmond has written on every Bon Jovi album since Slippery, I doubt they're gonna abandon him now!

Where exactly do you think it says that Max Martin wrote It's My Life? I don't buy it, it's too based on Livin' On A Prayer. As far as I'm aware, there's only known example of the band taking a mostly finished song and just doing some minor rewrites is All About Lovin' You.

You can compile a list of songs easily by looking up the writing credits either in the album booklets themselves or on Wikipedia

[C'monFeet]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

First, How much input do you think these outside song writers really have?

I'm 100% sure, that if say, Desmond Child or Linda Perry, or any truly world class songwriter took an average Jovi song that was 99% finished, the 1% they would change could turn that song into a global hit. They have skills. They are hired for a reason.

[Bleedingguitar]

Famous songs penned by the band without outside help

-Wanted Dead or Alive
-Never Say goodbye
-I'll be there for you
-Lay your hands on me
-Living in sin
-I'll be there for you
-I believe
-Bed of Roses
-If I Was Your Mother
-Dry County
-Hey God
-These Days
-Dammed
-My Guitar lies bleeding in my arms
-Something to believe in
-Bitter wine
-Thank you for loving me
-Right Side of Wrong
-Postcards from the wasteland
-Who Says you can't go home
-Wildflower
-Last cigaratte

This stuff tends to be slightly more raw than when Desmond Child or any other writer is present. They could never have written songs like Living on a Prayer without Desmond. At the same with him time they could never have written songs like Wanted Dead or Alive.

Song writers were used the least by Jovi in the 90s; Keep the Faith and These Days. I think in the that period Jon and Richie were very creative and inspired. In the 80s they used more songwriters and then again post 2000.

[ticos_stick]

Originally Posted by Bleedingguitar

Famous songs penned by the band without outside help

-Wanted Dead or Alive
-Never Say goodbye
-I'll be there for you
-Lay your hands on me
-Living in sin
-I'll be there for you
-I believe
-Bed of Roses
-If I Was Your Mother
-Dry County
-Hey God
-These Days
-Dammed
-My Guitar lies bleeding in my arms
-Something to believe in
-Bitter wine
-Thank you for loving me
-Right Side of Wrong
-Postcards from the wasteland
-Who Says you can't go home
-Wildflower
-Last cigaratte

90% of those aren't famous.

[Goldsausage]

Originally Posted by ticos_stick

90% of those aren't famous.

Are you kiddin' me? Everytime I walk up the street there are kids hanging around playing Wildflower out of their mobile phones.

[ticos_stick]

Originally Posted by Goldsausage

Are you kiddin' me? Everytime I walk up the street there are kids hanging around playing Wildflower out of their mobile phones.

Yeah but just because Bon Jovi's body of work is popular amoungst the street kids and urban ganster types doesn't make them famous.

Have you heard Lethal homicide Jnr's reworking of Right Side of Wrong? It's a slice of pure Grime with lashings of killer beats and pumping bass lines. Still, it's never going to hit the mainstream.

[DryCounty]

Originally Posted by Goldsausage

Are you kiddin' me? Everytime I walk up the street there are kids hanging around playing Wildflower out of their mobile phones.

Oh yeah ! :O Not to mention Postcard from the Wasteland !!

[KathleenV]

I've often wondered where the "ghost" writers come from.