2020: The New Album

I never know what to think of your posts! You say it's better than the last 5-6 years yet during the tour you done NOTHING but criticize and comment on how Jon should retire and pack it in.

What is it?!

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Yes, I'm saying so, but these are only three performances out of what - hundreds? - during the tour, and I unfortunately think they're also pretty much the only honestly good/decent ones of the whole European leg, so my overall opinion is still the same as usual (similarly to Walleris' 120% effort theories).

I'm not talking about Jon's regular standards here. These were positive surprises - as I said: I enjoyed them a lot more than usual in the last 5-6 years, not that Jon has suddenly regained any more of his former abilities in general.

Maybe a bipolar Jon disorder?

I also don't know what it is with his constant "even if Seb would say xy..." in every analysis, even though Seb has never responded to a single one of these.

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I really don't understand what's going on here. If I'm pessimistic and negative towards Jon's current live output (which I am most of the time), I get shat on because of overreacting and exaggerating things, and when I'm actually positive about something for once, I get shat on because I'm usually negative about this era and shouldn't have attitudes differing with themselves regarding anything about it.

Bottom line: overall, Jon can't really sing anymore and it's very unlikely for him to improve any further from his current level (which is undeniably better than 2017, but still worse than late 2013-15 in general). However, every now and then he manages to pull off the odd song with less vocal flaws - or more energy than usual to compensate for them - compared to the norm, and on those occasions I can appreciate his effort and enjoy the performances more than usual. The three videos on the previous post are such examples, and IMO pretty much the only performances of individual songs from the whole European THINFS tour that I can honestly enjoy all the way through, time after time. There may have been a couple of others as well, but I don't have the motivation to specifically look for them at this point.

The Bed Of Roses performance from Dublin night #2 is actually very good for Jon's current standards. He still has somewhat of a hard time with his phrasing and timing at times, but there are no obvious pitch problems and his tone is surprisingly good. As the song goes on, his voice clears up a bit and he sounds much more like the Jon Bon Jovi I used to know - especially on the verses -, as opposed to the weak and breathless old guy of 2017-early 2018. Granted, the choruses are still a bit shouty, but he gets there and does a solid job overall.

Saturday Night from the same gig is a very energetic and passionate performance with Jon really being up for it and ”in the moment”. For the first time in more than 6 years (bar the speech in Sao Paulo ’17) there’s the extended breakdown with Jon’s ad-libs in the middle of the song. His vocals are quite patchy overall, but during the improvised section he really gives his pipes a workout, going for some high notes and even adding a bit of rasp to his voice at one point. It’s not perfect or anything, but Jon’s obvious passion and will to really PERFORM the song as opposed to him just singing his way through it gives me goosebumps. Add to that the strong personal meaning of the song for me, and the result is a great performance for the modern day JBJ + Bon Jovi.

Always from Wembley is another occasion where Jon’s obvious effort and passion make up for his vocal shortcomings. There his voice is obviously really shot, his tone is quite forced and there are quite a few bum notes even in the lower/middle register, especially on the ”there ain’t no luck…” part. However, he goes for the last two choruses with so much bravado and effort, it really seems like he’s bleeding out his absolute all and pushing out every single bit there’s left of his vocal power and range (which is obviously very limited even in this kind of a 150% situation). Him struggling and sounding like he’s in pain while still coming pretty close to hitting all the important notes emphasizes the inner meaning of the song itself, and you can really imagine a completely worn-out man, running on his final cylinders, desperately pouring out all he’s got left of his former power to prove how much he still loves the woman. The final chorus has Jon completely flipping off his limitations for the best of his remaining vocal skills, belting out the ”I’ll be there ’til the stars don’t shine…” part better than in many, many years. The amazing Wembley crowd singing every word with him, helping him get through the obvious struggle, makes it an astonishingly beautiful moment.

So, does giving Jon the kudos he absolutely deserves for these three diamonds in the endless sea of turds really make me seem bipolar?

Absolutely. And those songs you’ve used as examples sound mediocre at best. I was at the Dublin shows and Jon’s voice was better in Nijmegen.

Thanks a lot I guess I'll stay negative permanently from now on so that anyone won't get bothered...

Nah, it's just that you've been jumping constantly from one extreme to the other in the last three years. One day Jon remotely screeched himself to a note and we were almost back to 2011 standards, the next day Jon was done for good.

And I agree with Thierry - these renditions were maybe better than others on the tour, but still mediocre at best. I personally don't get why people desperately try to depict every performance in order to find that one halfway bearable rendition in there. Especially since, in this case, it's always about Bed of Roses / These Days / Always / Saturday Night (with a long analysis of each detail). We have 20 years of beautiful, breathtaking renditions of these, why should one waste his breath on rewatching the current ones, knowing that it won't be the same again anyway.

I know you came late to the party and basically really became a fan when even their Indian summer had ended and desperately want to live some of this as well, but Jon's days of a good live singer have gone. You can still hope on something interesting in the studio though.

I actually became a fan in 2003 and saw them live in 2008 and 2011, so I don't think I necessarily "came late to the party". That said, I've always tried to be an optimist and look for the good even when it's largely outweighed by the bad, as is the case here, but I can easily understand why many of you disagree with me.

Maybe I've just been holding out too much hope for too long and it's really not worth it keeping the faith anymore, I don't know... I'm not expecting anything out of this world to become of the new album, either, considering how much more I used to enjoy the band's live performances over their post-HAND studio output anyway until mid-BWC tour.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Funnily enough, I can't watch a live performance and I'm thoroughly done with the band in that respect, but I'm moderately optimistic towards new songs and I'm perfectly happy with getting new albums.

It probably has to do with the fact that none of my top 10 songs post TD were written by Jon & Richie only. In fact there's very little contribution by Richie to my favorite songs from the last 20 years. Most of my favorites are JBJ songs. I still believe in him as a songwriter, I can't say he hasn't missed the mark most of the time, but when he delivers, oh but he DOES delivery.

I'm not overly worried about the social/political overtones of the new album. And that's coming from someone who listened to WAN once and throw it away and who dislikes 85% of TC. But I still don't think the problem is the subject matter but not giving a ****ing damn about crafting a good song. Jon can write, I have an unshakable faith in his abilities (with or without collaborators, I'm not picky), but he's also a wanker who caters to the lowest common denominator and half assess most of the songs. We either have lazy attempts to sound as if they have something to say (Live before you die, WAN, Reunion, Walls) or my absolute pet peeve when it comes to the band, the patronizing ones (Welcome to Whenever you are, Born To Follow, Work for the Working Man) and many many many mediocre songs in-between. They haven't lost the touch, they just don't care because it's easy money (and why should they, honestly, Jon delivers the bare minimum and most of the audience goes nuts) and I've always believed that Jon just doesn't want to scratch the surface and show the ugliness, to open up too much. It's easier to sell a vaguely inspirational story when the lyrics are lazy, interchangeable and non-offensive. I don't even think Jon realizes how truly stupid it sounds/looks when he tries to pass off as socially conscious songs like LWTG or All Hail The King. Jon also seems to have the need to try to hammer it down when he used to have a knack for storytelling of any kind, including the subtle type.

And no, he didn't lost it after TD. Real Love is what you get when you work on a sketch of a song (Blind Love) and scratch the surface, get rid of the easy short cuts and craft a story instead of ticking off the words and sentiments that will turn into headlines when promoting an album And there are many similar examples over the years. And then there are the hidden treasures that Jon clearly wants to share but doesn't want to shine the spotlight on. And I'm here for those.

I also see lots of people going on and on about the guitars, how they are going to be either the best thing since sliced bread because Phil played a solo or something, or the worst ever because no Richie. I don't care about the "quality" of the playing of whoever did the guitar parts in BB and THINFS, some songs gave me the feels and I'm also here for this.

I realized after THINFS that guitars stopped mattering a long time ago, which I knew but I guess I didn't want to really believe. Like with songwriting, Richie *almost* hasn't contributed to anything I've loved in the past 20 years. I'm not speaking about technique but how I feel about the guitar playing in a song, what it evokes, which used to be 50% of what I loved about BJ songs. That simply disappeared over the years and it didn't quite register because the guitars where there, but now looking back they were either loud and impersonal (Bounce), abysmal (HAND), phoned-in (Everything Richie did with the band post LH) or not enough (LH which frustrates me to no end because I know there's an effort there and I can almost feel it, but it ends if falling short and I wish it wasn't like this because some of these songs are phenomenal). I will never dispute that Richie made songs come alive when he could play them outside the constricts of the album. If I did a list of my favorite songs performed live VS album versions Richie's playing would be a great factor to love songs that don't do a lot for me (The Distance or AOD come to mind), but the fact remains that the songs got more dull over the years both songwriting and guitar-wise so I don't see why people panick now as if they expect a huge change in any direction.


All in all, I appreciate the fact that they (Jon) tried with THINFS and I know the next album could be another miss if the newer songs are anything to go by, but I still haven't found a BJ album where I didn't like a single song and the last 2 albums have some of my favorite songs post TD *shruggy emoji*

I don't even care about dodgy vocals anymore. Crush was shocking enough. I've has enough time to accept this and move on *double shruggy emoji*

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When THINFS was released this website had previews available before they were released, nothing on there yet of course but make sure to keep an eye out when they release a date etc for the album and singles

https://www.supraphonline.cz/umelec/290252-bon-jovi