The Richie Sambora & Orianthi album

Rdkopper · #**2751** 01-09-2018, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieBlue

No, it's a not Jon v Richie thing. I see it more as a Jon v Anybody thing.

I agree that everyone has different definitions. And it's interesting to see how they differ. If I understood yours correctly, you said that when both the singer and the backing band are different it's a cover. So basically any song that the lead singer does is not going to be a cover because only one of those elements is missing. Whereas a song sung by anyone other than the lead singer is always a cover because the original singer is missing. Except, for example, when RS sang LYHOM with Bon Jovi. That would not have been a cover because he was singing it with the band. And if Jon were to sing "Only in my Dreams" in a solo show it would be a cover, because Tico sang the lead in the recording.

To move it totally away from Jon and Richie (since apparently anytime their names appear in the same post it must be a "Jon v Richie thing"), if Paul McCartney sang "Help" in one of his solo shows or with Wings, it would be a cover, because John Lennon sang the lead when The Beatles recorded it. And anytime Mike Love's Beach Boys or Brian Wilson performs God Only Knows it's a cover because Carl sang the lead originally. But when The Eagles do Tequila Sunrise it's not a cover, even though Glenn sang the lead, because it's still the same band. Did I get that right?

Totally not even remotely close to being the same thing... All members of both The Beatles and The Eagles are lead singers and would sing lead on different verses within the same songs so it's much more acceptable and less noticeable if they cover each other...

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Thinny · #**2752** 01-09-2018, 11:07 PM

People just seem to be making up rules here to suit whatever is their way of thinking! Ever think maybe that you are over thinking it people??

Captain_jovi · #**2753** 01-09-2018, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieBlue

No, it's a not Jon v Richie thing. I see it more as a Jon v Anybody thing.

I agree that everyone has different definitions. And it's interesting to see how they differ. If I understood yours correctly, you said that when both the singer and the backing band are different it's a cover. So basically any song that the lead singer does is not going to be a cover because only one of those elements is missing. Whereas a song sung by anyone other than the lead singer is always a cover because the original singer is missing. Except, for example, when RS sang LYHOM with Bon Jovi. That would not have been a cover because he was singing it with the band. And if Jon were to sing "Only in my Dreams" in a solo show it would be a cover, because Tico sang the lead in the recording.

To move it totally away from Jon and Richie (since apparently anytime their names appear in the same post it must be a "Jon v Richie thing"), if Paul McCartney sang "Help" in one of his solo shows or with Wings, it would be a cover, because John Lennon sang the lead when The Beatles recorded it. And anytime Mike Love's Beach Boys or Brian Wilson performs God Only Knows it's a cover because Carl sang the lead originally. But when The Eagles do Tequila Sunrise it's not a cover, even though Glenn sang the lead, because it's still the same band. Did I get that right?

Sorry, I meant singer OR the backing band.

Not everything is a Jon and Richie thing but if we're talking about Richie and someone says "well how come Jon gets away with it" that's 100 percent how it comes across. That was the original example you used so that's what it felt like.

It's up to the individual to deem what it is to them and if it differs from others, whatever.

steel_horse75 · #**2754** 01-10-2018, 12:00 AM

I don’t understand why someone would leave their band of 30 odd years to do something different..and then play songs from the band he left.
But that’s just me.
I thought the same of Slash when he toured with Velvet and Miles Kennedy...again, that could just be me.

Alphavictim · #**2755** 01-10-2018, 12:24 AM

Slash never left his band of 30 years to play with Miles Kennedy, though. He had done solo stuff after he left G&R, then Velvet Revolver.

JackieBlue · #**2756** 01-10-2018, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

...All members of both The Beatles and The Eagles are lead singers and would sing lead on different verses within the same songs so it's much more acceptable and less noticeable if they cover each other...
...

True, but that doesn't apply to the songs I mentioned and it's beside the point, anyway. I wasn't saying that those examples are covers, because I personally don't think that any of them are. I was just checking my understanding of how Captain Jovi qualifies a song as a cover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jovifan93

...but when he sings BJ songs, it's just something totally different, which in itself qualifies as a cover for me...

The thing is, there is a generally accepted definition of what a "cover version" is and it has nothing to do with whether a version sounds different or is liked as well as the original.

Some dictionaries define a cover as "a new recording of a song previously recorded by another artist or group." Others specify that it's "a new recording by a performer or group other than the original performer or composer." By that definition, Carole King didn't "cover" Aretha Franklin's "(You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman" 5 or 6 years after Aretha made it a hit, because as the composer, it was Carole's song to start with. But by the same definition, Aretha's version wasn't a cover, either, because she was the original performer.

People are free to use any definition they choose. I'll stick with my less complicated criteria: if it's not somebody else's song, it's not a cover. For me, that takes the guesswork out of it and keeps it from coming down to "I like this better, so the other one's a cover".

JackieBlue · #**2757** 01-10-2018, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_jovi

Sorry, I meant singer OR the backing band.

Not everything is a Jon and Richie thing but if we're talking about Richie and someone says "well how come Jon gets away with it" that's 100 percent how it comes across. That was the original example you used so that's what it felt like.

It's up to the individual to deem what it is to them and if it differs from others, whatever.

I think it comes across that way to you because, for some reason, you seem to have made up your mind that any time I compare the two, I'm using Jon's behavior to defend or justify Richie's, or that I'm just looking for ways to bring Jon down to Richie's level or to make Richie look better; and I don't do that. That's somebody else's game, not mine. As far as I'm concerned there was nothing in what we were discussing that Jon needed to "get away with". My point is that I don't think the term "cover" even crosses most peoples' minds when Jon does BJ songs outside the band; but if anybody else does them, they're "covering" Bon Jovi.

And it's only because we were talking about Richie that I said why do people think Richie's doing covers but they don't think Jon is. If we had been talking about David, I would have said why do ppl think David is doing covers but they don't think Jon is.

It's not about what Jon or Richie or David does, or anybody else for that matter. It's the way ppl seem to accept whatever Jon does as a God-given right; but when anybody else does the same thing it's a horse of a different color. If all of them are doing the same thing, then let's call it the same thing.

Thinny · #**2758** 01-10-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel_horse75

I don’t understand why someone would leave their band of 30 odd years to do something different..and then play songs from the band he left.
But that’s just me.
I thought the same of Slash when he toured with Velvet and Miles Kennedy...again, that could just be me.

I don't think Richie has ever had a problem playing the old Bon Jovi stuff, I think it's more that he didn't want to go out touring for 2 years behind new music that he didn't believe in. Which in my book, is fair enough.

jovifan93 · #**2759** 01-10-2018, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieBlue

I think it comes across that way to you because, for some reason, you seem to have made up your mind that any time I compare the two, I'm using Jon's behavior to defend or justify Richie's, or that I'm just looking for ways to bring Jon down to Richie's level or to make Richie look better; and I don't do that. That's somebody else's game, not mine. As far as I'm concerned there was nothing in what we were discussing that Jon needed to "get away with". My point is that I don't think the term "cover" even crosses most peoples' minds when Jon does BJ songs outside the band; but if anybody else does them, they're "covering" Bon Jovi.

And it's only because we were talking about Richie that I said why do people think Richie's doing covers but they don't think Jon is. If we had been talking about David, I would have said why do ppl think David is doing covers but they don't think Jon is.

It's not about what Jon or Richie or David does, or anybody else for that matter. It's the way ppl seem to accept whatever Jon does as a God-given right; but when anybody else does the same thing it's a horse of a different color. If all of them are doing the same thing, then let's call it the same thing.

Ok, then let me put it this way: people don't think Jon's doing covers when he's singing BJ songs outside of BJ, because the (subjectively, of course) most important part of a performance - the singer - is the same. At least that's the case for me, and I'm not at all for bands switching singers, since the singer is the one that carries the meaning of the song and the one I can identify with...

Add to that that BJ = Jon and the rest of the guys are on his payroll.

Of course that doesn't take any rights or whatever away from Richie or other co-writers to perform the song. Or anyone else, for that matter, but then it'd definitely be a cover

rolo_tomachi · #**2760** 01-10-2018, 05:33 PM

RSO (Richie Sambora & Orianthi) Wanted Dead...

The Richie Sambora & Orianthi album

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