[BJFan99]

To put it simply, I believe in Jon again. Don't get me wrong, he's still sounding rough in general, but his voice somehow seems to be improving day by day, and if the progression continues in the way it's lately been, the guy will probably be back to decent vocal shape on the European tour next year.

But even now, there's lots to like. For example, the set list might be pretty static on the first sight, but at least they've given the boot for some of the crap songs they've previously been playing in every show, or at least perform them more rarely nowadays. I don't hate Because We Can, Captain Crash or I Love This Town, but none of them is in a real need to be a live staple, and overall I can say I'm happy to see ILTT having bitten the dust. And, to be honest, Jon has made some good/rare-ish choices to be included in the set lists pretty regularly - for example, Lay Your Hands On Me (sung by Jon) hadn't been a staple since the OWN tour! The sets have a great flow in general and the crowds no longer seem to lose their interest during the concerts.

Another positive thing: although Jon's voice is shot, he seems to be much braver with it than previously and no longer dodges all the high notes he had been avoiding for years until the THINFS tour (most notably, the "lay my hands on YOOOUUU..." on LYHOM that he never went for even on the non-Richie versions from 2010-11, when his voice was in about its best post-2k shape; this tour he goes for - and nails - it every single time). His pronunciation of the lyrics has also gotten a lot better and nowadays he sings the "I wasn't there when you were happy, or there when you were down" part on IBTFY properly again instead of mumbling "AAANDEEEWEEE UUUEEE HAAAPEEE, HOONEEEWEEE UUUWEEE DAAAN". Even on Always he sings the "I'll be there 'til the stars don't shine..." part clearly again.

But, most importantly, the band seems like a band again. It's no longer just the CEO & the employees. JBJ gives both Phil and Big John lots of chances to shine, interacts both with his bandmates and the audience a lot (something that was largely absent during the latter part of the BWC tour and the 2015 Asian tour), JUMPS INTO THE CROWD FROM THE MAIN STAGE AGAIN (having pretty much stopped it after the Crush/OWN tour) etc.

Mark my words: the rest of the tour will be awesome. It was OK to good in the States, it's really good to awesome now and it will (most likely) be epic next year. Let's just not give up on Jon; the guy will get himself together again, he's a trooper. The band seems to genuinely enjoy performing for the first time in quite a number of years, even the static set lists are good (at least) for a change and as Jon's vocals improve, the band will probably bring out some real goodies again.

JBJ might still be just halfway there, but he'll make it, I swear. Just keep the faith!

[Walleris]

I will mark your words and show it to you the next time Jon butchers a super easy song and you will look really stupid.

There's zero evidence to suspect a substantial improvement in the vocals department in comparison to the NA leg.

[bonjovi90]

Originally Posted by Walleris

I will mark your words and show it to you the next time Jon butchers a super easy song and you will look really stupid.

There's zero evidence to suspect a substantial improvement in the vocals department in comparison to the NA leg.

Don't talk like that or Rdkopper will attack you within a few minutes! Someone like you, who has only ripped the band's albums for years and hasn't enjoyed anything since These Days isn't entitled to such a drastic point of view!!!

[Captain_jovi]

I can't tell if this is satire or not!

[symbeline]

Mmmm no. I appreciate your enthusiasm (if you are not being sarcastic) and I do agree with some of your points, but no, just no. The recipe to having a band in 2017 that resembles the old BJ (give or take a co-writer, co-producer, co-responsible of delivering a great show, co-singer, and founding member) is super easy and it doesn’t have anything to do with Jon’s voice.

The shows were always fun. The last time I saw them (I’m almost afraid to say it was in 2008, I’m almost 10 years behind, not sure if I can call myself “a dedicated fan”) I was absolutely aware that Jon had trouble with some songs and his voice was weak in some parts. Being there with 50.000+ screaming fans and having a blast wasn’t incompatible with having perfectly working ears. But I didn’t care, it was a fun show. The band used to have fun on stage and the fans enjoyed that above the perfect rendition of their favorite song. Was all the banter scripted? WHO THE HELL CARES, it’s their job to entertain people.

Today, I see a band going through the motions.
Most of the time it looks like an excellent tribute band working their asses off to deliver their best to compensate for Jon’s shortcomings. It’s not the band’s fault, I’m sure their relationship is easier now than it was on the last tour and the years before. But if Jon can’t or won’t be the frontman he used to be, the show is just a pale imitation of what it was and the band is just there… doing their job. It’s Jon and the BJ guys and some other people.

There are lots of easy, doable things that Jon can do to improve the show: Bring back the medleys and have the silly banter, who cares if it’s scripted down to the last word. Don’t have a damn catwalk and use it only once. Bring back the speeches between the songs (that was actually a highlight of this tour). Interact at least with the original members, I can understand why Jon is reluctant to pretend that losing 50% of what made the band great is not a big deal and he could treat Phil and Shanks as if they were Richie and expect fans not to complain. It is a good decision even though the show will never be the same, it's a compromise and I'm OK with it. But c’mon include Dave, my poor Dave, he’s always picture perfect at the back, waiting for a chance to shine. Give the guy something to do, like they've done many times in the past. Those things require 0 effort and have always been done. And will improve the show whether Jon's voice continues to decline or not.

What I agree is that from the band’s perspective it is indeed a good tour. Good reviews, they left behind their worst moment and bounced back again (sorry, I couldn't resist the horrible pun), the future looks promising...

[Walleris]

Originally Posted by symbeline

Mmmm no. I appreciate your enthusiasm (if you are not being sarcastic) and I do agree with some of your points, but no, just no. The recipe to having a band in 2017 that resembles the old BJ (give or take a co-writer, co-producer, co-responsible of delivering a great show, co-singer, and founding member) is super easy and it doesn’t have anything to do with Jon’s voice.

The shows were always fun. The last time I saw them (I’m almost afraid to say it was in 2008, I’m almost 10 years behind, not sure if I can call myself “a dedicated fan”) I was absolutely aware that Jon had trouble with some songs and his voice was weak in some parts. Being there with 50.000+ screaming fans and having a blast wasn’t incompatible with having perfectly working ears. But I didn’t care, it was a fun show. The band used to have fun on stage and the fans enjoyed that above the perfect rendition of their favorite song. Was all the banter scripted? WHO THE HELL CARES, it’s their job to entertain people.

Today, I see a band going through the motions.
Most of the time it looks like an excellent tribute band working their asses off to deliver their best to compensate for Jon’s shortcomings. It’s not the band’s fault, I’m sure their relationship is easier now than it was on the last tour and the years before. But if Jon can’t or won’t be the frontman he used to be, the show is just a pale imitation of what it was and the band is just there… doing their job. It’s Jon and the BJ guys and some other people.

There are lots of easy, doable things that Jon can do to improve the show: Bring back the medleys and have the silly banter, who cares if it’s scripted down to the last word. Don’t have a damn catwalk and use it only once. Bring back the speeches between the songs (that was actually a highlight of this tour). Interact at least with the original members, I can understand why Jon is reluctant to pretend that losing 50% of what made the band great is not a big deal and he could treat Phil and Shanks as if they were Richie and expect fans not to complain. It is a good decision even though the show will never be the same, it's a compromise and I'm OK with it. But c’mon include Dave, my poor Dave, he’s always picture perfect at the back, waiting for a chance to shine. Give the guy something to do, like they've done many times in the past. Those things require 0 effort and have always been done. And will improve the show whether Jon's voice continues to decline or not.

This.

I can't understand why Jon stopped doing all the fun gimmicks he used to when his voice was still good. He should be even more reliant on those now that he can't please us with his voice, but it's the opposite. It probably due to confidence issues that come from not being able to deliver as a vocalist.

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by bonjovi90

Don't talk like that or Rdkopper will attack you within a few minutes! Someone like you, who has only ripped the band's albums for years and hasn't enjoyed anything since These Days isn't entitled to such a drastic point of view!!!

You're missing my point... People continue to bash Jon show after show because of his voice and trust me, I know it's shit... And it's not getting better. I'll be the first to say it...

Jon is not a lazy guy. He's got great work ethics and still runs/works out everyday... Why anyone would think that he doesn't care about his voice or stands at the mic as a sign of laziness is beyond me... Personally I think with this new Bon Jovi band, Jon is taking a darker approach... He's changing things up a little while keeping it the same, just like the way he changes things up with each album... I also think Jon performs in pain every night and when the show is over, his throat is on fire.

The people who bash Jon are selecting a few of the most difficult songs and ripping him a new asshole like he's a criminal. And it seems to be the same people who don't support the band.

Why does everyone who attends shows have different opinions? Everyone!!! I admit that 2013 was an autopilot glorified cover band with Jon as the lead singer.... And rightfully understandable too. All the new songs work well live. This House is a great opener, Knockout is fantastic, etc... Watching These Days and then judging the entire tour based off of that is not fair and those are the opinions I don't value.

In short, I value people's opinions who understand the band... Who understand the big picture. It's the people who buy the albums and attend the shows... Those are the educated fans who are deeper than "I listened to These Days, Jon Sucks, It's Over"!

[Rdkopper]

Originally Posted by symbeline

Most of the time it looks like an excellent tribute band working their asses off to deliver their best to compensate for Jon’s shortcomings. It’s not the band’s fault, I’m sure their relationship is easier now than it was on the last tour and the years before. But if Jon can’t or won’t be the frontman he used to be, the show is just a pale imitation of what it was and the band is just there… doing their job. It’s Jon and the BJ guys and some other people.

You can thank Richie Sambora for that... Don't blame Jon...

And come on! It's more than a tribute band... Phil and EB are cool... Shanks is even cooler than Bobby too... They get better with each show...

[symbeline]

Originally Posted by Walleris

This.

I can't understand why Jon stopped doing all the fun gimmicks he used to when his voice was still good. He should be even more reliant on those now that he can't please us with his voice, but it's the opposite. It probably due to confidence issues that come from not being able to deliver as a vocalist.

Jon used to talk a lot about his cousin Captain Crash. Now he doesn't even mention him anymore, how rude

[symbeline]

Originally Posted by Rdkopper

You can thank Richie Sambora for that... Don't blame Jon...

How about no. While Phil will never be treated like Richie because he is not Richie, Dave is still Dave, Tico is still Tico and even poor Hughie is still poor Hughie, the forgotten middle child. Jon has interacted with them plenty of times before.